Battlestar Galactica music video

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-19 10:29am

Do I have to explain everything? The mission involves the use of a captured Raider, does it not? What if the Cylons capture the mission personnel and return the favour, by making the rendezvous with captured Raptors full of nuclear weapons? So much for the "we'll just jump away when we see a basestar" excuse.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-12-19 10:35am

Darth Wong wrote:Do I have to explain everything? The mission involves the use of a captured Raider, does it not? What if the Cylons capture the mission personnel and return the favour, by making the rendezvous with captured Raptors full of nuclear weapons? So much for the "we'll just jump away when we see a basestar" excuse.

Petty Officer Dee: Admiral, DRADIS contact ... Radiation Alarm!

Man, seriously, watch it. Any response from here on in is gonna piss you off, and that sincerely isn't my intent, but again, nuke's aren't un-known to Galactica, they blew up a passenger liner in '33' because their radiological alarm went off after the passenger liner tried to do the exact same scenario you're proposing.

Again, you're risk to the entire human population scenario relies on the rendezvous being held with the entire fleet present.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-19 10:40am

That's bullshit. We're not talking about a suitcase nuke here; if they can put a nuke on a captured ship, they can put shielding around it. Or is the idea of radiation shielding completely foreign to this gritty realistic sci-fi universe? It's not as if we have that in real-life or anything.

Seriously, all of your responses sound like "It's not retarded! Honest! Just watch more of it and you'll see!"

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-12-19 10:45am

Darth Wong wrote:That's bullshit. We're not talking about a suitcase nuke here; if they can put a nuke on a captured ship, they can put shielding around it. Or is the idea of radiation shielding completely foreign to this gritty realistic sci-fi universe? It's not as if we have that in real-life or anything.

And again your scenario would be a great danger if the rendezvous was to be with the entire fleet present.

Your scenario (and associate risk) can be vastly mitigated by simply setting up a rendezvous away from the fleet, and having identity confirmation before going back to the rest of the fleet. That way the only thing at risk would be at worst Galactica or, more probably, one more Raptor.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-19 10:47am

Just look at the way you're trying to nitpick the criticism, as if you've completely forgotten the question I raised when I first started talking about this, which was "why the fuck are they doing anything remotely like this instead of running the fuck away as fast as they can?" Saying that they might only lose Galactica on this fool's errand is ridiculous; the survivors need them, which means they have a fucking responsibility and they can't go risking themselves for some stupid bullshit like "I left my boyfriend behind". Leaving the fleet defenseless is as good as fucking them up yourself.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-12-19 11:06am

Darth Wong wrote:Just look at the way you're trying to nitpick the criticism,

I hardly think that clarifying the actual risk involved in this example can be construed as 'nitpick'.

Darth Wong wrote:as if you've completely forgotten the question I raised when I first started talking about this, which was "why the fuck are they doing anything remotely like this instead of running the fuck away as fast as they can?" Saying that they might only lose Galactica on this fool's errand is ridiculous; the survivors need them, which means they have a fucking responsibility and they can't go risking themselves for some stupid bullshit like "I left my boyfriend behind".

I have done nothing of the sort. In fact; in my first response to you I wrote;

Crown wrote:I disagree with this, although having not seen more than 5 mins of the original series I can't possibly disprove it. I will say though that the risk was far less than you seem to be implying, although the possible 'rewards' for them going there was no where near acceptable to take that risk. It was an act of plot, a purly contrived one at that.

and

Crown wrote:I'm with you on this rescue mission (but for different reasons; it was a pure act of writer fiat, it came out of nowhere, and it went no where),

So that's twice in one post where I not only acknowledged your original question, I also agreed with it.

The entire exchange afterwards revolves around your 'put's all of the human race at risk' point. That is where I took exception, and that is what you replied to - well sort of replied to, since you keep avoiding the fact that the only way the fleet would be in such horrendous hazard is if the rendezvous was made with the entire fleet present, and Galactica and Pegasus sleeping.

My 'only risk losing Galactica' point was the worst case outcome if the rendezvous was made in a sensible manner and yet Galactica allows the returning Raptors to land without a visual confirmation of the pilots/passengers, something we've seen they could and should do. Of course the loss of Galactica would be a severe set back, and I wouldn't suggest otherwise, however again this relies on Galactica command just acting stupidly. The fact that they sent their own deep into occupied territory would automatically imply that they should be aware of a possible Trojan Horse scenario at the rendezvous, it's just logical that they would plan to mitigate any risk. Especially after '33' where this exact scenario played itself out.

Of course I haven't seen the episode for a long time, and I could be talking out of my ass, they may very well have had the rendezvous in the middle of the fleet. If anyone has evidence to the this being the case I will of course shut up and apologise.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-19 12:37pm

If you honestly can't figure out that the whole human race is endangered if their ONLY PROTECTION risks destroying itself on a fool's errand, I can't help you.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-12-19 01:35pm

Darth Wong wrote:That's bullshit. We're not talking about a suitcase nuke here; if they can put a nuke on a captured ship, they can put shielding around it. Or is the idea of radiation shielding completely foreign to this gritty realistic sci-fi universe?

Could be.

In the very first episode of the regular series, one of the civilian ships' FTL drives breaks down, leading to it being captured by the Cylons. The Cylons then put nukes on it, jumped it back in toward the fleet, and had it approach the fleet claiming to have someone aboard who had vital information concerning the betrayal of the Colonies.

Before it got close to the fleet, the "radiological" alarm went off and tipped off Galactica to the presence of nukes aboard the civilian liner... a fairly large ship, mind, and not something as relatively small as a Raptor, so it could have accomodated a bunch of shielding around the nuke.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-12-19 02:31pm

Darth Wong wrote:If you honestly can't figure out that the whole human race is endangered if their ONLY PROTECTION risks destroying itself on a fool's errand, I can't help you.

This is beyond ridiculous. What do you think the scenario will go like;

Crew member; "DRADIS contact, IFF confirms our raptors."

Admiral; "Clear them to land."

Crew member; "Ahh, should we hail them first?"

Admiral; "Nah, not really."

Crew member; "Should we have one of the CAG's pilots do a close up fly by for visual scan and identification?"

Admiral; "Surely not. Just open the bays, and let them land, also turn off any emergency procedures and while you're at it, network all our computers please ..."

Is that a realistic scenario? Of course not, but that is about the only way they could lose the Galactica to Trojan'd Raptors. And by the by, at this point of time Galactica is not the fleet's only protection, the Pegasus is around too.

Again, I'm not arguing that the entire mission was stupid from a risk/rewards stand point, but I am saying the risk to the fleet and to Galactica is NO WHERE NEAR as grave as you believe, and it would take MASSIVE, unprecedented levels of stupidity to actually lose the Galactica.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-12-19 03:39pm

Uraniun235 wrote:Before it got close to the fleet, the "radiological" alarm went off and tipped off Galactica to the presence of nukes aboard the civilian liner...

This is actually realistic. The US Coast guard has sensors on their harbor patrol cutters which can detect radiation on board a container ship by simply steaming next to the ship, and then the sensors actually take them to the SPECIFIC container on the ship, which is full of legal radioactive equipment (i'd guess hospital equipment)

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-12-19 03:41pm

Darth Wong wrote:Seriously, all of your responses sound like "It's not retarded! Honest! Just watch more of it and you'll see!"

Too bad you don't watch it; they've actually handled the show quite well, with very few WTF moments. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing is; and it's massively lightyears better than pretty much any episodic science fiction show that's come before it; it's revived my interest in television sci fi after ST completely destroyed it.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-12-19 03:51pm

Darth Wong wrote:Instead, there's political intrigue and bizarre hokey religious bullshit

Hey, you might have a point, if the hokey religious bullshit was believed by everyone on the show; like it would be on B5 or on Trek; too bad that Tigh, Adama, and something like 2/3rds of the fleet thought Roslyn was fucking nuts in Season 2 when she went back to Kobol.

EDIT:

[Indeed, you have a lot of non-religious people on the show, witness how in the last episode so far, Chief Tyrol recounts about how his parents were religious priest equivalents, and how he hated it all, the bullshit, etc; and that he used to parade around in his mother's religious study room, naked with porn mags in each hand

]

As for the Raptor led rescue mission to Caprica at the end of Season 2, not everyone was all gung-ho for it; there was dissent IIRC amongst the top staff over whether it was worth it in terms of risk/reward and it came down IIRC to Adama to cast the deciding vote. Much better than everyone unamiously agreeing on Trek, don't you think?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-12-19 05:02pm

MKSheppard wrote:Too bad you don't watch it; they've actually handled the show quite well, with very few WTF moments. It's not perfect, but then again, nothing is; and it's massively lightyears better than pretty much any episodic science fiction show that's come before it; it's revived my interest in television sci fi after ST completely destroyed it.

I must have terrible luck with my random episode watching, because everything I've seen has had an eye-rolling wtf moment. The show isn't as bad as the awful miniseries (lol Baltar isn't dead am I right?) but it's hardly free from plot absurdities. When people put it on a pedestal and say it isn't a whole bunch of cliche things, and it actually is, that's pretty funny. How anyone can say 'massively better' than 'any show' just boggles my mind: those people (and there's plenty of them) are basically saying you either like it or you have bad taste.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2006-12-19 05:28pm

I tried to watch nBSG. I really tried...

It just that that fucking shaky ass camera work gives me a slight case of motion-sickness to watch. I could understand it for some of the exterior shots and space battle sequences, but for fuck's sake... They use that shit ALL THE TIME. I mean, if someone goes to the bathroom there'd be a shaky assed montage of them wiping their ass.

If they fix that, I'd watch.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-19 06:04pm

Mr. Coffee wrote:I tried to watch nBSG. I really tried...

It just that that fucking shaky ass camera work gives me a slight case of motion-sickness to watch. I could understand it for some of the exterior shots and space battle sequences, but for fuck's sake... They use that shit ALL THE TIME. I mean, if someone goes to the bathroom there'd be a shaky assed montage of them wiping their ass.

If they fix that, I'd watch.

That's a major part of the Pretentious Bullshit Factor of this show, so they won't get rid of it. They think "shaky-cam" equals hard, gritty drama and masks "Lifetime Channel Soap Opera In Space".

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-19 06:09pm

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVYijQJbAig

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-12-19 07:12pm

mean, if someone goes to the bathroom there'd be a shaky assed montage of them wiping their ass.

Actually, when Baltar ambushes Gaeta in the Galactica toilets to try and convince him to help him clear his name, I don't remember that ...

(nBSG- proudly joining B5 as one of the few sci-fi series to actually acknowledge the existence of toilets ...)

Shaky-cam was very distracting for me in the miniseries- it was a primary complaint of a friend of mine when he said he hadn't seen season 1. I brought it over on DVD and saw a few eps and now he's quite into it.

Mr. Coffee · Post by **Mr. Coffee** » 2006-12-19 07:39pm

I don't care if mBSG shows the shit flowing out of people's asses. That camera shit makes me seasick. It's a great show, but that shakey cam shit has got to go.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-12-19 07:42pm

not half as shaky as the bourne supremacy

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-12-19 07:49pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:not half as shaky as the bourne supremacy

In Bourne I don't remember simple, stationary dialogue scenes being shakycam. It's for combat and action, not standing around a tent. It's not a bad method of conveying chaos etc, but when it's used ALL THE TIME it's just lame.

Hey Vympel, about those main guns - if the ventral guns can survive reentry that's pretty impressive.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-12-19 08:14pm

Stark wrote: Hey Vympel, about those main guns - if the ventral guns can survive reentry that's pretty impressive.

Yeah- it's too bad that the whole underside of Galactica is glowing and obscuring the guns, I think it's the first decent shot of Galactica's ventral side we've ever gotten in the show proper (as opposed to the internets).

Looking at the pic of Galactica getting pounded in Exodus again Here, the strange circular orange light coming from the guns don't seem to have a particularly defined source. It's very odd- and we don't see it all the time, either.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-12-19 08:18pm

Yeah, and considering the damage Galactica takes, we can't just say that the CGI guys did a TNG and didn't model on damage. The guns were clearly supposed to be intact but out of action. I just don't know why the constant strafing of Raiders didn't just put a missile on them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-12-20 09:35am

Crown wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:If you honestly can't figure out that the whole human race is endangered if their ONLY PROTECTION risks destroying itself on a fool's errand, I can't help you.

This is beyond ridiculous. What do you think the scenario will go like;

Crew member; "DRADIS contact, IFF confirms our raptors."

Admiral; "Clear them to land."

Crew member; "Ahh, should we hail them first?"

Admiral; "Nah, not really."

Oh right, because a race of master computer hackers couldn't possibly just fake a transmission, either voice or voice/video.

Crew member; "Should we have one of the CAG's pilots do a close up fly by for visual scan and identification?"

Admiral; "Surely not. Just open the bays, and let them land, also turn off any emergency procedures and while you're at it, network all our computers please ..."

Is that a realistic scenario? Of course not, but that is about the only way they could lose the Galactica to Trojan'd Raptors. And by the by, at this point of time Galactica is not the fleet's only protection, the Pegasus is around too.

Thanks for reminding me of that stupid "network your computers and we all die" bullshit. Look, why don't you just admit that you have a rabid hard-on for trying to evangelically convert everyone to your favourite goddamned dreary sci-fi soap opera?

Again, I'm not arguing that the entire mission was stupid from a risk/rewards stand point, but I am saying the risk to the fleet and to Galactica is NO WHERE NEAR as grave as you believe, and it would take MASSIVE, unprecedented levels of stupidity to actually lose the Galactica.

Oh right, that's why even some of the crew was seriously concerned. They were all just as stupid and ignorant as me, right? You've become a fucking evangelist for the show.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2006-12-20 10:16am

Crown wrote:
Again, I'm not arguing that the entire mission was stupid from a risk/rewards stand point, but I am saying the risk to the fleet and to Galactica is NO WHERE NEAR as grave as you believe, and it would take MASSIVE, unprecedented levels of stupidity to actually lose the Galactica.

You mean like how they nearly lost the Galactica during the rescue on New Caprica? They would have been lost if Lee hadn't disobeyed orders and brought the Pegasus back in to save their ass, but the result was the same and they still wound up losing a Battlestar. It just happened to be the Pegasus, which was in considerably better condition, instead of the Galactica. I like the show and everything, but that's one of the dumber moments in it.

Crown · Post by **Crown** » 2006-12-20 12:18pm

Darth Wong wrote:Oh right, because a race of master computer hackers couldn't possibly just fake a transmission, either voice or voice/video.

See below.

Darth Wong wrote:Thanks for reminding me of that stupid "network your computers and we all die" bullshit. Look, why don't you just admit that you have a rabid hard-on for trying to evangelically convert everyone to your favourite goddamned dreary sci-fi soap opera?

Thanks for avoiding the fact that simple Raptor to Raptor fly by will null any Cylon Trojan Raptor scenario.

Darth Wong wrote:Oh right, that's why even some of the crew was seriously concerned. They were all just as stupid and ignorant as me, right?

Stop projecting. The crew were right to be concerned over the plot, the risk of the Raptors and their crew where waaaaaay beyond the possible gains of the mission. Not that anyone seriously thought that THE ENTIRE FLEET hung in the balance. It was a mis allocation of resources with no clear objectives or gains.

If you have evidence to the contrary please feel free to post it, for I certainly don't remember anyone saying that the entire of humanity would be placed at risk by this mission.

Darth Wong wrote:You've become a fucking evangelist for the show.

Like it, don't like it, non of my concern. But I must have missed the memorandum that stated; arguing for the sake of accuracy automatically makes you a zealot.

General Zod wrote:You mean like how they nearly lost the Galactica during the rescue on New Caprica? They would have been lost if Lee hadn't disobeyed orders and brought the Pegasus back in to save their ass, but the result was the same and they still wound up losing a Battlestar. It just happened to be the Pegasus, which was in considerably better condition, instead of the Galactica. I like the show and everything, but that's one of the dumber moments in it.

Can you explain to me exactly how Galactica was in risk of being lost during the trip back to Caprica, as you know that would actually help better than showing how Galactica would rightfully place itself in harms way to save the better part of most of humanity stranded in New Caprica.