Why everyone hates microsoft

[Xisiqomelir]

Linka

There's some in there that I didn't even know, and I consider myself a seasoned hater.

[Ace Pace]

Amusing that when I read this I'm far more impressed with pro MS posters rather then pro Linux writers.

[Uraniun235]

Linka

There's some in there that I didn't even know, and I consider myself a seasoned hater.

i don't really feel like digging through a whole slashdork thread thanks



Seriously. We expect articles in full quoted over in N&P when someone links to a news article as the first post of a thread; that's not particularly desirable in this instance but it's not much of a stretch to provide some relevant quotations.

(But thanks for leaving the dollar signs out of this thread. )

[Admiral Valdemar]

(But thanks for leaving the dollar signs out of this thread. )

Eh?

Anyway, I agree with a lot said here on both sides. It's really just another form of polarisation of fans, to use the term being thrown around OSF right now. I can't stand Windows/Apple/Linux fanboys just like I can't stand extremists in anything, really.

But frak, do M$ bug me with the whole monopoly thing still and Vista.

[Uraniun235]

(But thanks for leaving the dollar signs out of this thread. )

Eh?

Anyway, I agree with a lot said here on both sides. It's really just another form of polarisation of fans, to use the term being thrown around OSF right now. I can't stand Windows/Apple/Linux fanboys just like I can't stand extremists in anything, really.

But frak, do M$ bug me with the whole monopoly thing still and Vista.

oh goddamnit not you too!

(Xisiqomelir and I got into a tussle in an earlier thread over how "M$" is dumb.)

[Praxis]

Yes it's stupid and immature, but why does everyone complain about "M$" and nobody complain about "AOHell"?

[K. A. Pital]

I never use dollar signs. If I want to mock Microsoft, there's plenty of ways to do it without resorting to dollars.

Seriously though, "why all hate Microsoft" is bullshit. There's a very small number of people who have such strong antipathy towards it that could be classified as hate, and those are only revolving around programming geek circles (not being actually geeks, they take up "Ms sucks" and go with it as a flaming banner).

Then there's a larger, but still miniscule group of people who are between indifference and mild antipathy - I'm one of them. I don't care for Microsoft as a company, but I don't like it's deplorable practices and sincerely wish it to suffer for them in the fullest possible extent. Statements of Microsoft and it's allies' public figureheads also generate antipathy, because, quite frankly, they're not only full of shit most of the time, but I find it strange for people of such high ranks to lash out with bullshit accusations like kiddies.

I mean, it's one thing if some random geek calls Microsoft names, but when Bill Gates openly bashes Open Source and says that it's a tool devised by evil new age communists... fuck him. Easy as that. And Ballmer. And of course SCO.

But I think about 80% of people are actually totally indifferent towards M-soft at all, because they know jack shit about M-soft, computers and programs - they are users, and they use whatver the management decides, or whatever is there on the shelves in the shops.

Microsoft is an angry dinosaur for me. Do I hate dinosaurs? Not really, I don't care. If they die or live. It would be better if it's monopolistic powers were cut, that's about it. History will show if it's functions are outlived or it still has a place in the future.

Comments in the thread linked to were for 80% completely pointless and some were complete bullshit (like 80% using IE because they lack the skill to use Mozilla/Fox opposed to them simply not giving a fuck and using the products of the most powerful and marketed player on the market).

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Yes it's stupid and immature, but why does everyone complain about "M$" and nobody complain about "AOHell"?

Who the hell really says "AOHell" anymore?

EDIT: Oh snap, I think I did within the last few months...

[Admiral Valdemar]

oh goddamnit not you too!

(Xisiqomelir and I got into a tussle in an earlier thread over how "M$" is dumb.)

Haha, I did want to see how you'd react when I followed the witty person's way of writing Microsoft.

[Xisiqomelir]

(But thanks for leaving the dollar signs out of this thread.

Eh?

But frak, do M$ bug me with the whole monopoly thing still and Vista.

oh goddamnit not you too!

ITT: I exercise all my powers of self-restraint for no purpose.

Hrm, summarizing a 1000++ post thread without creating a Wall of Text. Here are three that I think give a good gist of the thread.

A general list of reasons for hatred:

Microsoft has:

* Destroyed Netscape and BEoS.
* Bribed government officials in India and other countries to use their operating system.
* Funded SCO's litigation against IBM and Linux in general.
* Bribed Novell into betraying the Linux community.
* Forced entire school systems to audit their computers and pay "non-compliance" fines.
* Profited off of Linux and Mac installations without paying royalties by forcing a per computer "tax" on all Licencing 6 customers.
* Slowed down the Internet with their virus ridden software.
* Made it impossible for me to buy the laptop I choose without paying them, even if I do not use their software. (The guy at the store laughed at me when I asked if I could just get the hardware.)
* Supported software patent legislation in Europe.
* Created the most DRM restricted operating system in existence with plans to extend the DRM to MY hardware and encrypt MY information on MY hard drive and give control of all that to someone else (read: Hollywood).

. . . and those are just what I can think of off the top of my head. I am sure I missed more than half, and no, I do not have time to provide links to all of those. You are on your own.

An excellent rejoinder to "Gates is making the largest philantropic efforts ever known to man":

Microsoft is a convicted illegal monopolist.

Microsoft was let off the legal hook by a fortunate change in administrations - more like a fortunate failure to honor the democratic will of the people.

Microsoft spends billions of dollars around the world lobbying for initiatives that restrict and suppress open standards and free software, guaranteeing expansion of its monopoly worldwide and into emerging and developing markets.

Bill Gates may be attempting to use his money to make a positive impact in this world in order to whitewash his legacy in his old age, but had governments and businesses and people invested in open standards and free software instead of the monopolist's products, we would still have Bill's money in our collective pockets, developing our economies, educating our children, and feeding our families.

The insecurities of an aging robber baron are little consolation for the great human and natural resources he has squandered through ruthless malice, contempt for law, personal aggrandizement, and cronyism.

That reason I didn't know about (I did know they do this, I didn't know about this specific company):

Atleast you got Halo for your Mac( or are getting it ). A similar exmple is when Netscape was kicking ass in the browser market. There was this little company called DimensionX who had a cool development system for multimedia applications written in Java. IIRC, they were doing something with Netscape too and it had to do with developing Java applets or something. Well, Sun Microsystems wanted to purchase them to help show what Java can do but Microsoft wanted them too. Only Microsoft wanted them to kill them and stop Java from getting recognized as a useful tool. The bidding war was on and when all was said and done, Microsoft ended up with DeminsionX for millions and terminates its Java products. They did the same with a company called Coopers & Peters.

So if a technology is growing which is outside of complete control my Microsoft, they go out and purchase and terminate those companies leading the way.

Heard of OpenGL? Well Microsoft can't have a cross platform 3D tool getting developers excited. They must come up with another 3D system which will ONLY RUN ON WINDOWS.

Got 80% marketshare in handhelds( PalmOS ). Microsoft start seeing all the other dbase vendors shipping dbases clients for PalmOS so Microsoft releases MS Access lite for WindowsCE, which nobodies heard of. Fast forward 10 years and you find that Microsoft has lost over $8 billion on WindowsCE just to dominate the handheld market. Ie, they bought their way into the market with $10's of billions over about 10 years.

This guy wants to know why people hate Microsoft? He/she should look at how Microsoft pretends to "compete" in the market. Hint, they don't compete and do EVERYTHING they can legally and sometimes illegally to stop the reall innovators from making their product sucessful.

And lets not even go into how they steal other companies IP and then after 5-10 years when the company has no more customers and exists only as an owner and a lawyer, they pay out a few million in a "settlement".

IMO, Bill Gates, Steve Balmer, and the rest of the crew are snake oil salesmen. They use Microsoft to crush anybody and everybody they decide is a threat to the money train called the Microsoft Windows monopoly.

You are very lucky to even hear of Microsoft doing a Mac version of a product they've purchased. Given how they hate that Apple is making a sucess out of the iPod, I wouldn't doubt that EVERY Microsoft product for the Apple is heading for the chopping block. IMO

[RThurmont]

* Profited off of Linux and Mac installations without paying royalties by forcing a per computer "tax" on all Licencing 6 customers.

How would Microsoft profit off of a Mac "installation", other than through the small stake they continue to hold in Apple? Apple does not sell Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Windows does not come preloaded on any Apple products, and I'd be shocked dead if Apple was even a member of Microsoft's Partner Program. The only Mac "installations" that the "Windows Tax" would apply to would be illegal installations of OS X on a non-Apple PC that originally came with Windows preloaded.

For me, this whole part of the debate is a non-issue, as all of the OEMs I regularly buy equipment from (namely, Dell and Lenovo) will sell at least some of their product range without an OS pre-installed, or with an open source operating system.

I personally do not hate Microsoft, and continue to have strong respect for Bill Gates. Steve Ballmer is getting on my nerves, and my interest in Windows Vista is rapidly dwindling given the huge number of post-sale restrictions placed in the license, the massive amounts of DRM, and what looks like a generally mediocre system. I am genuinely disappointed with Vista, as I was really hoping that it would have been "worth the wait." I really enjoyed using Windows 3.1, 3.11 and Windows 95, as well as MS-DOS, and continue to enjoy Microsoft Office (I've yet to see an office suite that can compare with it). Additionally, MSFS remains without a doubt the finest flight simulator on the planet. The software standardization that Windows has historically enabled has additionally been very convenient, as its nice to be able to walk into Frys and know that most likely, the Windows app that I'm buying will work.

If Microsoft would cut back on the DRM and annoying post-sale restrictions and do a better job developing Windows, I wouldn't have a problem with them. However, I don't think they're going to do that, so I figure I might as well migrate to Linux. As an added plus, Linux is also free, so there should be some cost benefits as long as my company is small enough so that I can administer the systems myself. For personal home use, I'll probably use Apple products, with maybe a solitary Vista machine for gaming (since you still can't beat Windows as a gaming platform).

[Ace Pace]

* Destroyed Netscape and BEoS.
* Bribed Novell into betraying the Linux community.

* Slowed down the Internet with their virus ridden software.

* Made it impossible for me to buy the laptop I choose without paying them, even if I do not use their software. (The guy at the store laughed at me when I asked if I could just get the hardware.)

Someone call a WHAMMMBULANCE.

This reads like someones drunken rantings from the 90s.

Heard of OpenGL? Well Microsoft can't have a cross platform 3D tool getting developers excited. They must come up with another 3D system which will ONLY RUN ON WINDOWS.

You'd think someone would realise that DirectX suceeded because it was far better then OpenGL.

Got 80% marketshare in handhelds( PalmOS ). Microsoft start seeing all the other dbase vendors shipping dbases clients for PalmOS so Microsoft releases MS Access lite for WindowsCE, which nobodies heard of. Fast forward 10 years and you find that Microsoft has lost over $8 billion on WindowsCE just to dominate the handheld market. Ie, they bought their way into the market with $10's of billions over about 10 years.

Illegal, wrong, in what aspect?

[RThurmont]

I think it's also dumb to say that Be, Inc. was killed by Microsoft. Be was, if anything, killed by Apple's board, who decided to buy NeXT instead. Be's entire business model consisted of:

1. Develop an operating system to replace Mac OS.
2. Attempt to get Apple to buy the company out.
3. Sell expensive proprietary hardware with the OS on it to fund development and keep the doors open while waiting for #2 to occur.
4. Once acquired by Apple, ensure that Jean-Louis Gassée gets a senior position and massive amounts of dough from the Be, Inc. buyout.

When Apple's board swung the other way, it quite naturally killed Be, although it did leave us with a good OS that formed the inspiration for Haiku, which I personally consider to be one of the most promising next-generation FOSS operating systems.

[Xon]

Heard of OpenGL? Well Microsoft can't have a cross platform 3D tool getting developers excited. They must come up with another 3D system which will ONLY RUN ON WINDOWS.

Someone didnt know their computer History. Back then OpenGL required expensive hardware and was considerably slower due to the extra features.

DirectX was made because they needed a cutdown version which didnt require ludericious investments in graphics cards to work.

[phongn]

Man, there's a lot of hate in those rants. And a lot of stupidity, too.

[Xon]

Man, there's a lot of hate in those rants. And a lot of stupidity, too.

Hey, what do you expect from slashdot?

Intelligent debate?

[phongn]

Intelligent debate?

Well, if your browse at +4 or +5

[Ace Pace]

Intelligent debate?

Well, if your browse at +4 or +5

Then you have no idea what the debate is about, as you only see the smart side.

[Uraniun235]

Heard of OpenGL? Well Microsoft can't have a cross platform 3D tool getting developers excited. They must come up with another 3D system which will ONLY RUN ON WINDOWS.

Someone didnt know their computer History. Back then OpenGL required expensive hardware and was considerably slower due to the extra features.

DirectX was made because they needed a cutdown version which didnt require ludericious investments in graphics cards to work.

I'm also confused as to why Microsoft would want to invest resources in developing code for operating systems that they don't sell.

Haha, I did want to see how you'd react when I followed the witty person's way of writing Microsoft.

Oh, you!

* Bribed Novell into betraying the Linux community.

Haha, someone's feeling butthurt.

* Forced entire school systems to audit their computers and pay "non-compliance" fines.

i must have missed the memo where public schools get to ignore copyright law

I actually work in a public school IT department and I have very little sympathy for this one. Just because your budget is so low you can't even maintain a five-year hardware replacement cycle doesn't give you a 'get out of jail free' card when it comes to software licensing.

[Praxis]

Yes it's stupid and immature, but why does everyone complain about "M$" and nobody complain about "AOHell"?

Who the hell really says "AOHell" anymore?

EDIT: Oh snap, I think I did within the last few months...

Everyone. It's practically their official name. Even people in real life refer to it as such.

[K. A. Pital]

I actually work in a public school IT department and I have very little sympathy for this one.

Some of our Universities and Schools already are ditching Microsoft. For exactly the same reason. No actual motivation to pay, when you can have the same level of experience on an open source base.

What I detest is Microsoft lobbying it's own way into the government structures, especially well seen when someone decides to use Open Source instead. As well as lobbying and "vendor lock-in" in the private sector/

Their behaviour is similar to other huge corporations, which I have little sympathy for anyway, but vendor lock-in, especially with DRM and other crap, is getting simply preposterous.

All enemies that Microsoft has are it's own work. All action creates a counter-reaction.

And then the practice of "piracy hook", I'd personally fine them for that. Simply letting pirated software be used en masse to computerize Third World coutnries, then assault them with inspections and requisitions, demanding "crop harvest" - everyone to get a license. Where were they before? Oh right... they were letting the pirate stuff spread wide enough so they have a huge field for their crop harvest.

[Xon]

Intelligent debate?

Well, if your browse at +4 or +5

Then you have to put up with missing 90% of what the hell is being talked about, and context is a damn handy thing.

I'ld rather just read ars technica instead

i must have missed the memo where public schools get to ignore copyright law

I actually work in a public school IT department and I have very little sympathy for this one. Just because your budget is so low you can't even maintain a five-year hardware replacement cycle doesn't give you a 'get out of jail free' card when it comes to software licensing.

Microsoft practically gives away copies of Windows and Office licences to educational institutions, something like less than $100 per active user or so. You can have 10k students, and only a few hundred computers, so you only need as many licences as you have computers.

[RThurmont]

It's hardly giving it away when even at $100, the gross margin on each boxed copy is easily 99% or better. I have a major gripe with all software companies that license on a per seat basis, as the margins from said licensing are ridiculous and bear no relationship with the marginal cost of making the copy. Yes, they are related to the fixed cost of developing the software, but who cares? Fixed costs are called sunken costs for a reason.

The beauty of the open source model is that it forces software companies to add value in order to generate revenue, either by selling support or by providing convenience in the form of a physical disk that can be reused as much as needed to install software on different machines. Of course, per seat licensors also often distribute physical disks, but the price of the software does not reflect the marginal cost of distributing the disk.

However, I'm still willing to buy per seat licensed software if it's good. Which is why I continue to buy Microsoft productivity software. Let's face it, no one does a better office suite. The problem with Linux is the lack of good applications for it, even though as operating systems go, I much prefer it. However, I expect that will change, and I am tired of the DRM, so I am moving off of Microsoft, but, if Microsoft decided to release Office for Linux (which of course will not likely occur), I'd get it. I'm still hoping that Wine or Cedega will figure out how to run Office 2003.

[Fashionable Nerfherder]

Just a few points from a Microsoft contractor - and please keep in mind that just because I work there doesn't mean I have blind loyalty.

1. If you look past the technocrat hipster crowd, lots of people like Microsoft. Consumer surveys have shown that the average consumer actually has a pretty favorable view of Microsoft. Microsoft has also earned high marks from Fortune 500 companies in terms of customer service and reliability.

http://www.computerworld.com/management ... 20,00.html

2. Microsoft has done some downright ruthless things but so do many other high tech companies. HP just got busted for hardcore corporate spying; "don't be evil" GOOGLE has agreed to censor the Internet per demands from the Chinese government; SAP has ruthlessly tricked/destroyed European competitors; Dell has gotten flak for being a very bad enviromnental player; IBM is working overtime to co-opt the open source movement for its own business goals. Need I mention the 100-hour mandatory weeks that companies like EA and Sony demand of workers (for a lot less pay than Microsoft offers btw), or how both of these companies have done the same thing as Microsoft in the video game industry?

3. While we're at it, the corporate misdeeds of Microsoft pale in comparison to real corporate evils - Halliburton mercs making music videos of themselves blindly shooting civilians in Iraq; Monsanto driving millions of peasant farmers around the world to starvation; the sweatshop conditions perpetuated by almost every major clothing label; the wholescale ecological devestation wrought by the major energy companies.

4. Vista is going to be a revolutionary leap forward in terms of stability and features fo Windows users. So I personally think it's unfair to say Microsoft never improves on its OS.

Just wanted to give a counterbalance to the whole "everyone hates Microsoft" or "Microsoft is the root of all evil" sentiments.

[phongn]

Just because Microsoft isn't as bad as some of those other companies does not absolve them of the very real issues at hand and is a red herring.