Whacked Japanese woman

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-26 10:24pm

My wife has been making friends with this Japanese woman she works with. This woman is in her forties, pretty nice, but also really hyped up... almost manic (at least from when I met her). She seems nice enough though...

Anyway, so last week my wife was getting over a cold, and this lady gives her Airborne (homeopathic garbage). She tells her how great it is, that it will boost her immune system... All the typical alternative medicine crap they usually say. Anyone who has taken first semester physiology would know how ridiculous this stuff is. I later showed my wife some actual studies (turns out that the dosage of Vitamin C it provides is well beyond safe levels, and it could cause kidney stones later) and she now knows how to distinguish actual medicine from homeopathic crap that crazy people use. I think I even referred to this lady as "the crazy lady."

Today I pick up my wife, and she tells me that this woman's cat has been sick for a week. I laughed and asked whether she gave it Airborne... "No," she replied, "she got it acupuncture." I immediately launched into "see? I told you she's crazy!"

Oyee... Poor cat. What the hell...?

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2006-12-26 10:31pm

There's some "wellness" company from Japan called Nikken which sells magnetic therapyt alternative medicine over here. I think they make quite a bit of money and their products are sold pyramid-scheme style. People touting their products can be pretty pushy.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2006-12-27 01:27am

It's not that all eastern medicine are useless, it's just several people who like to trick westerners who don't know a damn about eastern medicine.

There's been scientific research on accupunture, and it is helpful...if you know how to apply it.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-27 01:35am

ray245 wrote:It's not that all eastern medicine are useless, it's just several people who like to trick westerners who don't know a damn about eastern medicine.

There's been scientific research on accupunture, and it is helpful...if you know how to apply it.

From skepdic.com:

The most frequently offered defense of acupuncture by its defenders commits the pragmatic fallacy. It is argued that acupuncture works! What does this mean? It certainly does not mean that sticking needles into one's body opens up blocked chi. At most, it means that it relieves some medical burden. Most often it simply means that some customer is satisfied, that is, feels better at the moment. The NCAHF issued a position paper on acupuncture that asserts, "Research during the past twenty years has failed to demonstrate that acupuncture is effective against any disease" and that "the perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, operant conditioning, and other psychological mechanisms." In short, most of the perceived beneficial effects of acupuncture are probably due to mood change, the placebo effect, and the regressive fallacy. Just because the pain went away after the acupuncture doesn't mean the treatment was the cause. Much chronic pain comes and goes. An alternative treatment such as acupuncture is sought only when the pain is near its most severe level. Natural regression will lead to the pain becoming less once it has reached its maximum level of severity. Also, much of the support for acupuncture is anecdotal in the form of testimonial evidence from satisfied customers. Unfortunately, for every anecdote of someone whose pain was relieved by acupuncture there may well be another anecdote of someone whose pain was not relieved by acupuncture But nobody is keeping track of the failures (confirmation bias).

Maybe it does, but it probably doesn't. Traditional Chinese medicine is not based on knowledge of modern physiology, biochemistry, nutrition, anatomy, or any of the known mechanisms of healing.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2006-12-27 05:48am

When i was working in a vets we had a dog that would come in for acupuncture every few months. The owners seemed to notice a marked improvement in the dogs life while it was being treated, and as long as they're willing to keep paying for it i bet it'll keep on getting it.

Ravencrow · Post by **Ravencrow** » 2006-12-27 06:48am

Bertie Wooster wrote:There's some "wellness" company from Japan called Nikken which sells magnetic therapyt alternative medicine over here. I think they make quite a bit of money and their products are sold pyramid-scheme style. People touting their products can be pretty pushy.

Someone at my mom's workplace tried to sell her some magic magnets, saying that it helps to prevent and cure cancers by aligning atoms in correct orientations! Can't remember if they are pills or something that you put in your bed at night.

Traditional medicine might not be proven or ever be, I'd like to think of them more like supplements, but the new stuff that rides on their backs are just crazy.

Ravencrow · Post by **Ravencrow** » 2006-12-27 06:55am

Superman wrote:My wife has been making friends with this Japanese woman she works with. This woman is in her forties, pretty nice, but also really hyped up... almost manic (at least from when I met her). She seems nice enough though...

Japanese tend to be like that -- they overexpress when they are trying to show that they are happy or pleased with something, or when expressing gratitude. I used to work in a hotel, and Japanese guests were always like that when they are pleased with the service. I just bring them laundry, they make me feel like I've brought them the world.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-27 11:51am

Ravencrow wrote:
Superman wrote:My wife has been making friends with this Japanese woman she works with. This woman is in her forties, pretty nice, but also really hyped up... almost manic (at least from when I met her). She seems nice enough though...

Japanese tend to be like that -- they overexpress when they are trying to show that they are happy or pleased with something, or when expressing gratitude. I used to work in a hotel, and Japanese guests were always like that when they are pleased with the service. I just bring them laundry, they make me feel like I've brought them the world.

Yeah, I know. I've lived in Japan and worked among them for some time. I don't mean that in the usual sense, I mean she's a little whacked.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-12-27 11:51am

ray245 wrote:There's been scientific research on accupunture, and it is helpful...if you know how to apply it.

Actually, that's rather the opposite of what clinical trials of acupuncture have shown.

They have largely shown that although there is a neurological effect from poking needles into people, it's not the one claimed by people who shill acupuncture. It seems to work in a similar manner to transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation, in that it stimulates overproduction of endorphins, leading to reduction of pain.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-12-27 02:04pm

I thought Airborne was a recent thing in the States and debunked. It's still in the shops? Amazing.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2006-12-27 09:13pm

ray245 wrote: There's been scientific research on accupunture, and it is helpful...if you know how to apply it.

There has been scientific research on accupunture, and it is helpful...even if you do not know how to apply it

Study by the Charite in Berlin did show that acupuncture has an effect, but that TCM technique is bunk.
Result: acupuncture works, but it does not matter were you poke them. Study results were in 2004, but was prolonged to figure out to solve questions thrown up by the results, now runs till 2008.
You should found information under GERAC, or German acupuncture trials.
German website is gerac.de, final report of the first leg is linked from there but can also be found here
Warning, that document is pdf and german.

The intresting thing, study was paid for by the insurer.

Thinkmarble · Post by **Thinkmarble** » 2006-12-27 09:13pm

Quick note, I did not read the final report. Just the press.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2006-12-27 11:49pm

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:I thought Airborne was a recent thing in the States and debunked. It's still in the shops? Amazing.

Interesting, my mom loves it. I havent seen any evidence either way.

Zor · Post by **Zor** » 2006-12-28 12:10am

My mom has a shitload of food allergies (milk, tomatos, soy sause, perprica and citris among others, nothing lethal but enough to give her headaches and make her feel horrible for a day) but she started taking accupture for them, and it has let her eat Pizza. As far as i have seen, it has worked.

Zor

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-12-28 01:40am

Hasn't the body's ability to recover when it thinks its recovering been well documented by now?

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2006-12-28 02:38am

Darth Raptor wrote:Hasn't the body's ability to recover when it thinks its recovering been well documented by now?

Yes.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-12-28 02:47am

Zor wrote:My mom has a shitload of food allergies (milk, tomatos, soy sause, perprica and citris among others, nothing lethal but enough to give her headaches and make her feel horrible for a day) but she started taking accupture for them, and it has let her eat Pizza. As far as i have seen, it has worked.

Zor

Some allergies tend to decrease in severity with repeated exposure to the irritant...

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2006-12-28 05:21am

Enforcer Talen wrote:
Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:I thought Airborne was a recent thing in the States and debunked. It's still in the shops? Amazing.
Interesting, my mom loves it. I havent seen any evidence either way.

Yeah, one of my friends starts downing the stuff soon as he feels a little ill. Says it helps keep him from getting sick. Of course, his family is big on the homeopathic medicine, so, eh. Hadn't heard anything about Airborne being good or bad, though.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-12-28 05:27am

If it's homeopathy, it's retarded shit. The entire school of medicine is based around the absurd notion that water can "remember" the properties of solutes and thus maintain their effects even at infinitesimally low concentrations. Throw it on the shit pile with phlogiston and chi.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-12-28 08:46am

Darth Raptor wrote:If it's homeopathy, it's retarded shit. The entire school of medicine is based around the absurd notion that water can "remember" the properties of solutes and thus maintain their effects even at infinitesimally low concentrations. Throw it on the shit pile with phlogiston and chi.

"Airborne" is essentially an extremely large dose of vitamins C and A, and assorted other minerals.

Grand Moff Yenchin · Post by **Grand Moff Yenchin** » 2006-12-28 10:06am

Supplement link for the Airborne supplement

Also enjoy this article.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-12-28 02:05pm

Grand Moff Yenchin wrote:I thought Airborne was a recent thing in the States and debunked. It's still in the shops? Amazing.

If you think Airborne is silly, wait 'til you hear about Head On.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2006-12-28 02:08pm

Darth Raptor wrote:If it's homeopathy, it's retarded shit. The entire school of medicine is based around the absurd notion that water can "remember" the properties of solutes and thus maintain their effects even at infinitesimally low concentrations. Throw it on the shit pile with phlogiston and chi.

Airborne is not homeopathic. Airborne actually contains active ingredients; they just don't do what the marketers claim they'll do.

Spin Echo · Post by **Spin Echo** » 2006-12-28 04:30pm

Molyneux wrote:
Zor wrote:My mom has a shitload of food allergies (milk, tomatos, soy sause, perprica and citris among others, nothing lethal but enough to give her headaches and make her feel horrible for a day) but she started taking accupture for them, and it has let her eat Pizza. As far as i have seen, it has worked.

Zor
Some allergies tend to decrease in severity with repeated exposure to the irritant...

They've been trying exposure therapy to build tolerance for some people with severe allergies, with promising results. The allergies are by no means cured, but an accidental bite of peanut butter or similar will no longer kill the person either.

ray245 · Post by **ray245** » 2006-12-29 12:03am

Darth Raptor wrote:If it's homeopathy, it's retarded shit. The entire school of medicine is based around the absurd notion that water can "remember" the properties of solutes and thus maintain their effects even at infinitesimally low concentrations. Throw it on the shit pile with phlogiston and chi.

Chi and other kind of chinese, japanese and korean medical terms are just different term from western terms. The 'shit' you hear about may simply be people talking bullshit and have no idea what exactly is that themselves.

Can anyone help and find links about the usefulness of asian medical methods? Traditional asian medicines seem much better than early european medicines.

Didn't the chinese have the idea of proper surgery methods in the han dynasty? When Hua Tuo tried to cure Cao Cao?

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