How long did the Galactic Empire last?

OmegaRed · Post by **OmegaRed** » 2006-12-31 03:13pm

From its establishment in ROTS, to its end in ROTJ, the Galactic Empire lasted for over 25 years, didn't it? Sorry if this is the dumb question, I get confused by Star Wars time.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2006-12-31 03:30pm

The Empire lasted for some time after ROTJ, the Alliance took some time to capture Coruscant and declare the New Republic and such. And even then, there's still the Imperial Remnant.

Whatever. I'm going off a limb to say that the Galactic Empire lasted for...ten thousand years!

In the new Star Wars comic books, didn't the Empire rise again (lol) or something?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-12-31 04:16pm

From its formation in 19BBY to its integration into the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances in 28ABY, the Galactic Empire lasted 47 years. However, it can be argued that the Imperial Remnant and the various other factions that formed following the Emperor's first "death" at Endor are not valid continuations of the body, meaning that the Empire fell in 4ABY. Additionally, there is the resurgant Empire present in the galaxy as of 130ABY to be considered. Really, the Galactic Empire can be credited to lasting any of half a dozen periods of time, depending on your view of the nature of the state.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-12-31 04:26pm

Noble Ire wrote:From its formation in 19BBY to its integration into the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances in 28ABY, the Galactic Empire lasted 47 years. However, it can be argued that the Imperial Remnant and the various other factions that formed following the Emperor's first "death" at Endor are not valid continuations of the body, meaning that the Empire fell in 4ABY. Additionally, there is the resurgant Empire present in the galaxy as of 130ABY to be considered. Really, the Galactic Empire can be credited to lasting any of half a dozen periods of time, depending on your view of the nature of the state.

Much like the original Roman Empire, which - to some small extent - Star Wars draws from. Where did it end? The division into two states? The fall of Rome itself? The fall of Constantinople? etc.

The time can even be considered to be indefinite, if the IR is considered to carry the Empire's legacy even while an Alliance member, since it did build a Second Empire afterwards.

It's a bit of a headache really. Damnable EU...

OmegaRed · Post by **OmegaRed** » 2006-12-31 04:43pm

Thanks for the information guys, so I guess you could say, the Empire was in complete control of the galaxy for 22 years?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-12-31 05:06pm

OmegaRed wrote:Thanks for the information guys, so I guess you could say, the Empire was in complete control of the galaxy for 22 years?

23, more or less. The Empire was still unquestionably the dominant power in the galaxy for several years after Endor, even taking into consideration its fragmentation, though; if you wanted a date for the end of its overriding power, you might use 7ABY, the point at which the New Republic seized Coruscant from "Empress" Ysanne Isard.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-12-31 05:07pm

OmegaRed wrote:Thanks for the information guys, so I guess you could say, the Empire was in complete control of the galaxy for 22 years?

Even then, it wasn't complete control. IIRC, the Hutts controlled some space, the Outer Rim was in general beyond the notice of the Empire, and some corporations were allowed to keep control of their own space.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-12-31 05:16pm

Surlethe wrote:
OmegaRed wrote:Thanks for the information guys, so I guess you could say, the Empire was in complete control of the galaxy for 22 years?
Even then, it wasn't complete control. IIRC, the Hutts controlled some space, the Outer Rim was in general beyond the notice of the Empire, and some corporations were allowed to keep control of their own space.

Nevertheless, both the Hutts and the Corporate Sector Authority were still officially under the Imperial yoke, operating independently but still subject to Imperial military oversight, and presumably, taxation and legislation. The only truly autonomous powers during the height of the New Order were small, isolated states like the Hapes Consortium, the Trianii, and the Aing-Tii Monks, along with a few far-flung powers in the Unknown Regions, most prominently the Chiss Ascendancy and the Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-12-31 05:35pm

Since the hardliners in the Imperial Remnant that began the process of ressurrecting it some time after 40 ABY, were pining for the glory days of old (minus some of Palpatine's eccentricities), the Empire can't be said to have gone away really. As of 137 ABY, the new Empire is still present (although split in two).

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-12-31 05:45pm

The Galactic Empire as founded by Palpatine in 19 BBY (the Galactic Empire of the canon films, which I'm sure is the central subject to most reading this thread) ceased to exist in 11 ABY when "Emperor" Xandel Carivus was executed and the central Imperial administration completely collapsed. There is complete continuity of government and administration within the Empire up until that point.

Just because warlords who in many cases had formerly been Imperial officers whose actions had probably been illegal under Imperial law were executed by a Corporal Daala (corporal is an army rank) who quite possibly never had a flag rank under the Imperial Navy (only subject to Grand Moff Tarkin's administration and command, which had long lapsed) who subsequently seized control of their remaining fleets and resources does not mean that the Imperial Remnant is the same thing as the Empire.

The Galactic Empire lasted thirty years.

The question of "how long" a state lasted is subject to legalities, not simply the pretentions or propoganda of a particular state's rulers. Karolus Magnus' Frankish realms were not the same state as the Imperium Romanum Pars Occidentalis which ceased to exist upon the deposition of the last Roman emperor in the West, Romulus Augustulus, by army commander Odacer. Even if similar titles and - especially with the Ottonian "Holy Roman Empire" quasi-state - legal pretentions of the sort were invoked (translatio imperii), doesn't mean its the same state.

Compare with true legally continuous rump states: the Imperium Romanum Pars Orientalis survived as the "Byzantine Empire." The Republic of China founded at the turn of the century survives today as a rump state on the island of Taiwan with total legal continuity of government.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2007-01-01 03:46am

Well, the Galactic Republic after the Ruusan Reformation claimed to be the same government as the previous Coruscant regimes before it (and everyone seemed to take it at face value, hence the "thousand generations"), so there might be some sort GFFA legal precedence for connecting various governments together.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2007-01-01 10:23am

Out of interest, would anyone happen to have a timeline of the Imperial government, starting with Palpatine and ending with Carivus, or perhaps continuing after Daala's reformation?

Concerning the legitimacy of the Remnant, I consider the Remnant to be a continuation of the Empire after Daala's reformation. In the same way, England retained continuity of its stateship after the Restoration, despite the Monarchy ending with the execution of Charles I, and beginning again with the crowning of Charles II. I draw a parrallel here between the execution of Carivus, and Daala taking command.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2007-01-01 01:34pm

Did Daala actually take command of the Empire proper (or whatever was left of it)? I thought she just assassinated all the warlords and took their assets, but I not aware that she ever took control of the remains of Carivus' Remnant.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-01-01 02:55pm

Lazarus wrote:Out of interest, would anyone happen to have a timeline of the Imperial government, starting with Palpatine and ending with Carivus, or perhaps continuing after Daala's reformation?

Concerning the legitimacy of the Remnant, I consider the Remnant to be a continuation of the Empire after Daala's reformation. In the same way, England retained continuity of its stateship after the Restoration, despite the Monarchy ending with the execution of Charles I, and beginning again with the crowning of Charles II. I draw a parrallel here between the execution of Carivus, and Daala taking command.

Yes, but the constitutional structures forming the central government of the Kingdom of England persisted after the Protectorate. Namely, parliament, the nobility, the mechanisms to convene both - which they did after the fall - and the mechanism for enthroning a new monarch: coronation at Westminster by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

How is Daala's usurpation legal or representing a constitutional continuation or revival of the Empire? Daala's rank was that of corporal, she's a soldier, not a sailor, and with Tarkin long dead and Maw Installation obliterated no command of any kind legally belongs to her. None of the warlords she murdered in cold-blood claimed allegiance to the Empire or the idea of the Empire to our knowledge (on the contrary, they casually and intentionally satirizing remarks refering to their motely bunch as the Empire which would've been treasonous as pointed out by Corporal Daala). They drew legitimacy or status by aping the Empire's high posts and ranks; but do we say the Dukes of the Dark Ages represent a continuation of the Roman Empire because dux was a military rank under the emperors?

Not only that, but the Imperial Remnant lacks the substance and constitution of the Galactic Empire. There is no Imperial Senate to speak of, no COMPNOR filling its role - either in lieu of the Senate as happened after ANH - or otherwise in an important political role as in Palpatine's Empire. The executive power during Thrawn's shōgunate was de jure executed by the Emperor's Ruling Circle - the survivors of Isard's proscriptions of the Emperor's Ruling Council who had ruled the Empire day-to-day under Palpatine himself. They maintained control of the Empire after Thrawn's assassination and colluded with warlords to attack the Core Worlds and recapture Coruscant. The Moffs were viceroys and governors of sorts of colonial administrations - they were not feudal lords who collectively executed Imperial policy.

Nor does the Imperial Remnant possess sole claim to the Imperial tradition. The Thrawnist "Empire of the Hand" may have outmatched Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors in military might and population, and certainly greatly outclassed it in territorial expanse. Corporal Daala later returned to the Deep Core enclaves and marshalled forces from a new generation of warlords but without any collusion and involvement from Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors. The Empire Reborn movement under Fyyar, Desaan, and the former Procurator of Justice does not appear to be aligned to Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors. And it was osteniably more akin to the Galactic Empire with a magocracy by a former adept under Palpatine and trained by Darth Vader personally, with a strong tie to the dark side of the Force and technological tools as a means to power.

"Admiral" (later "Grand Admiral") Pelleaon was the highest authority in the zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors. He as Supreme Commander lorded over a council of Moff Governors of individual sectors. This arrangement bares no similarity or continuity to power politics controlling the actual Empire at any point during its thirty year history. Pelleaon's rank was maybe Vice Admiral at its height while the Empire still existed. His promotion was delivered by a woman who'd at best been a corporal in the Imperial Army and recieved a local commission as an admiral - subject to Tarkin's commands only - in return for sexual favors. Meanwhile each of the warlords had been flag officers or Moff Governors of their own right under the real Empire. The Empire Reborn was centered around a former flag officer and the Imperial Procurator of Justice, arguably the highest ranking individual who remained operating within the Imperialist dregs after the final collapse.

So if Daala's mass murder and usurpation possesses legitimacy in your mind, why doesn't the same act repeated earn it when she assembles her second coalition from the Deep Core enclaves? Or if that's legitimate how come the Empire Reborn doesn't have a better claim? It has a real admiral and the Imperial Procurator of Justice and uses the dark side of the Force and technological might as means to power - fundamental traits of the Galactic Empire of the canon films. And what of each of the warlords in the Deep Core enclaves prior to Daala's mass murder? Each of them had been ranking flag officers and task force commanders under Palpatine himself. And what of the Empire of the Hand? It certainly was much larger than the zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors, and possibly lorded over a greater population and military might?

What you're talking about is not like the restoration of Charles II, which followed the law and constitution of the Kingdom of England, and the legality of succession. No, what you're talking about is the equivalent of a foriegn invasion of England dispersing the former forces and administrators of the kingdom to tiny regions across the island and setting up erstwhile "Kingdoms of England" without a king or Westminster or a parliament, and expecting that history would've called them legitimate successors.

The only group which legitimized Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors was the New Republic Historical Council, which had a vested interest in maintaining the fiction that Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors was a direct continuination of Palpatine's Empire in order to exaggerate the importance and legitimacy of the only Imperialist remnant which chose to negotiate and sue for peace with the New Republic and that treaty itself.

Pelranius wrote:Well, the Galactic Republic after the Ruusan Reformation claimed to be the same government as the previous Coruscant regimes before it (and everyone seemed to take it at face value, hence the "thousand generations"), so there might be some sort GFFA legal precedence for connecting various governments together.

No, it didn't. The Galactic Republic's Supreme Chancellor said the Republic had stood for "a thousand years." Apparently whatever the circumstances of the last Sith War and the Ruusan Reformation, it was a big enough deal that the reconstituted Galactic Republic - even if it functioned in much the same way constitutionally and even using the same charter and government bodies (unlike Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors) - they sought to distance themselves from the follies of the past. No, it is the Jedi who refer to their guardianship of the Republic (which is osteniably true, even disregarding their vested interest in glossing over lapses or failures in protecting it) as lasting "a thousand generations." This is evidence for my argument, so I thank you.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2007-01-01 05:11pm

Lazarus wrote:Concerning the legitimacy of the Remnant, I consider the Remnant to be a continuation of the Empire after Daala's reformation. In the same way, England retained continuity of its stateship after the Restoration, despite the Monarchy ending with the execution of Charles I, and beginning again with the crowning of Charles II. I draw a parrallel here between the execution of Carivus, and Daala taking command.

Actually, Charles II became king at the very moment of his father's death on 30 January 1649, even though he was not crowned in Westminster Abbey until 23 April 1661 (remember the old rule: Le Roi est mort, vive le Roi). Consequently, the defunct Commonwealth of England and Protectorate of England were regarded as illegitimate vis-à-vis the Kingdom of England, which had maintained continuity of sovereignty via Charles's continued government-in-exile. It is important to note that although the Commonwealth/Protectorate and Kingdom ruled the same country, they were in fact different states whose competing claims were finally settled in the monarchy's favor.

A similar event occurred in Poland as recently as 1990, when Ryszard Karczorowski, president of the Government of the Polish Republic in Exile (the rump 'secret state' left over from the Second Republic, driven from Poland by German and Soviet invasion in 1939), handed over to Lech Wałeşa, president of the Third Republic, the traditional symbols of the state (the red presidential banner and the presidential sashes, the presidential and state seals, and the original text of the 23 April 1935 Constitution), granting the Third Republic a legitimacy that the intervening Polish People's Republic never had.

If anything, the closest thing to a Star Wars analog to the English Restoration is the return of Palpatine the Undying from occultation in the Deep Core in late 44 - 45 rS (seen in the Dark Empire saga), in which the de jure legitimate sovereign regained de facto control of the state. As always, this calls the legitimacy of acts of the intervening governments into question; would an officer promoted under the Grand Vizier's or Director Isard's regencies revert to his pre-39 rank, or would the promotion remain valid? Generally speaking, the first act after a change of command or rule is to continue all standing orders and policies, except where they are rescinded; by analogy one can safely assume that all the regents' acts during the pseudo-Interregnum of 39 - 44 rS were retroactively legitimated under the revivified Galactic Emperor, except where they were not.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2007-01-01 05:54pm

I wasn't aware that the Reborn was any form of significant force, my only knowledge of them comes from JKII, in which they were easily defeated by Rogue Squadron and Katarn. Presumably there's yet another comic series I'm not aware of that portrays them as far more formbidable.

Publius, your deeper analysis makes the issue a bit clearer, I hadn't considered that because the Remnant is a different form of government it can't be a continuation of the GE. Therefore I'd suggest that it is the primary successor state, given that it eventually returned to galactic power, and I'm not aware of any other similar scale Imperial governments save for the EotH, and details on that are somewhat vague, and at any rate Thrawn kept that seperate from its inception.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2007-01-01 11:37pm

*devotes five minutes to cursing the arsed up installation of XP on his desktop*

Edit: My apologies, Illuminatus. I guess that's what happens when I don't by the movie novelizations.

Now back to topic.

How would the legitimacy of appointments made by the Council of Moffs rank, as in regards to appointments at the extra sectorial levels of Imperial hierarchy? In the Essential Chronologies, it was stated that it was the Council which appointed Pellaeon to the rank of admiral and Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet after Daala's 'resignation'.

In Darksaber, it was mentioned that Imperial authorities took control of the Gorgon, which would imply that those were not Imperial warlords, but possibly agents of the Moff Council, a high level governor like Grand Moff Gann or even the Inquisitorius. It may be possible that it was from these "Imperial authorities" that Daala derived her authority, or at least prestige, since it is very unlikely that Imperial warlords who at least had once held the formal rank of admiral or general would be willing to treat with a mere corporal with a string of qualified military defeats unless she represented someone of greater rank or influence?

And to what extent could surviving Imperial advisors and members of the Imperial Family (read Ederlaath Pallopides) claim to legitimacy?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-01-02 03:44am

Pelranius wrote:How would the legitimacy of appointments made by the Council of Moffs rank, as in regards to appointments at the extra sectorial levels of Imperial hierarchy?

Relative to Pelleaon's zombie Empire-of-eight-sectors and its successors; they're absolutely legitimate. I'm not sure what you're asking; claims of legitimacy are relative to the group in question. Relative to Palpatine's Empire? They would've had no legitimacy.

Pelranius wrote:In the Essential Chronologies, it was stated that it was the Council which appointed Pellaeon to the rank of admiral and Supreme Commander of the Imperial Fleet after Daala's 'resignation'.

Given Darksaber demonstrates Daala surrendering her fiefdom and armada over to Pelleaon, this is either a rubber-stamp elevation or a fabrication. Its not exactly unheard of for dictators to turn to castrated legislatures or nobles or whatever as a source of legitimacy. To continue the Brit example, Cromwell proscribed Parliament (resulting in the so-called Rump Parliament and later the "Barebones" Parliament which is incidentally our source for the term) and used it to back his policies. Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus was given the religious name Augustus and given the title of princeps senatus as well as confered consular imperium, imperium proconsulare maius, and tribunicia potestas (these extraordinary grants of personal powers constituted the position of Roman emperor) osteniably by a grateful Senate, but in actuality by a shell of the former Senate, proscribed by the participants of the Civil Wars and filled with his partisans.

Alternatively, Pelleaon's claim to authority may have been recognized collegiately by a number of remaining Moffs of the lapsed Empire in the Rim when he withdrew his forces and war materiel to this new power base (as described in the Essential Guide to Chronology). These Moffs probably included the former governors of sectors who had formerly been part of Imperial territory and recognized Imperial soveriegnty, and remained loyal to the ideological heritage even after the administration collapsed. Note Carida in The Jedi Academy Trilogy and the Moffs described in The Children of the Jedi and The Planet of Twilight.

Pelranius wrote:In Darksaber, it was mentioned that Imperial authorities took control of the Gorgon, which would imply that those were not Imperial warlords, but possibly agents of the Moff Council, a high level governor like Grand Moff Gann or even the Inquisitorius.

The Essential Chronology verifies that the central Imperial administration totally collapsed after former Imperial and Royal Guardsman Kir Kanos summarily executed "Emperor" Xandel Carivus. So while some governors may have remained in their prior role and used their prior titles and offices relative to their territories, they were de facto warlords; they answered to no higher authority unless they threw in with another warlord by virtue of the fact no higher authority existed any longer.

Besides, I'm pretty sure the novel identifies the confiscators of the Gorgon with the warlords like Harrsk and I seem to recall them describing the warlords as stripping it to equip and repair their own ships, not confiscating it.

Pelranius wrote:It may be possible that it was from these "Imperial authorities" that Daala derived her authority, or at least prestige, since it is very unlikely that Imperial warlords who at least had once held the formal rank of admiral or general would be willing to treat with a mere corporal with a string of qualified military defeats unless she represented someone of greater rank or influence?

1.) You haven't supplied sufficient proof that my recollection is incorrect and the novel does, as you claim, refer to anonymous Imperial authorities which could reasonably be distinct from the warlords.

2.) They didn't "deal with her." They confiscated or stripped her warship, mocked or ignored her, and eventually pressed her and her officers into service in their own navies.

3.) They never recognized her authority or granted her legitimacy. At each junction they opposed her and she was forced to use hostage tactics to force a conference, where she resorted to murdering all of them when her deficient diplomatic skills became apparent.

Pelranius wrote:And to what extent could surviving Imperial advisors and members of the Imperial Family (read Ederlaath Pallopides) claim to legitimacy?

The Dark Empire Sourcebook makes it pretty clear that constitutionally, the Galactic Empire was not a hereditary imperial monarchy, and additionally, there was no legally defined or legitimate mechanism to transfer the throne to another person. This is not as unusual or counter-intuitive as it sounds.

While most people seem to find it second nature that an emperor would be hereditary, historically this was often seldom the case. The Emperor of Rome was never an actual office during the Roman Empire (in the East it wasn't until centuries after the fall of Rome, great wars, and important constitutional reforms that legitimized and officialized the Hellenization of the East), nor a formal monarchy. As I described earlier, it was partially proclaimed and popularly verified strongmanship composed of a collection of offices, perogatives, powers, and titles, most of which had meaning during the true republican period. The Carolingian emperors had to be crowned by the Pope, as did the later German ones, which first had to be designated by election by select German nobility.

Even if there were enough Palpatinist legitimists to successfully back a support for a family member (which is not known to be true), Palpatine had his Grand Vizier destroy or seal his familial records. He did his best to obliterate proof of his origins. So both without legal legitimacy and demonstrable proof of relation any family member's claim with be difficult at best to enforce. And it wouldn't necessarily be healthy or wise or successful even if they did have legal legitimacy and proof of relation: Megas Alexandros, King of Macedon, Hegemon of Hellas, and King of Kings of Asia had an apparent heir but that did not prevent the desintegration and warlordism that broke out amongst his generals, and the extinction of his dynasty.

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2007-01-02 08:35am

Well, I found the passage on the Technical Commentaries. I'll post the relevant sentences, from Pages 58 to 59 of Darksaber:

"Daala had given up everything to limp back to the Empire, surviving in the battle scarred wreck of her last Star Destroyer, the Gorgon. Reaching sanctuary, she had been unimpressed with the weak and childish warlords who now held the future of the Empire in their hands. Imperial authorities commandeered Daala's remaining troops, scattering them among other ships in other fleets. They had scrapped the Gorgon, taking away the few usable components to rebuild other ships."

Overall, it's a rather unclear passage about whether those authorities are warlords or not. There isn't even any indication that those authorities are even in the Deep Core, come to think of it. Of course, authorities could mean anything, from warlord to Inquisitor to regional governor to Naval Command, though given Daala's obvious disdain for military warlords, it's somewhat unlikely that she would think of them as 'authorities'.

And it is rather strange that a warlord who took the Gorgon would actually reassign Daala's personnel to different commanders, as "other ships in other fleets" implies. I don't think there would be very much exchange of personnel among the warlords themselves, given the potential for espionage and infiltration with such personnel exchanges.

She is acting as a "freelance ambassador, a peacemaker visiting the far-flung warlords." so I admit that she took it upon herself to visit the various warlords of her own initiative.

Thanks for the feedback.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-01-02 02:47pm

Pelranius wrote:"Daala had given up everything to limp back to the Empire, surviving in the battle scarred wreck of her last Star Destroyer, the Gorgon. Reaching sanctuary, she had been unimpressed with the weak and childish warlords who now held the future of the Empire in their hands. Imperial authorities commandeered Daala's remaining troops, scattering them among other ships in other fleets. They had scrapped the Gorgon, taking away the few usable components to rebuild other ships."

Overall, it's a rather unclear passage about whether those authorities are warlords or not. There isn't even any indication that those authorities are even in the Deep Core, come to think of it. Of course, authorities could mean anything, from warlord to Inquisitor to regional governor to Naval Command, though given Daala's obvious disdain for military warlords, it's somewhat unlikely that she would think of them as 'authorities'.

The Inquisitorious was almost totally obliterated when Byss exploded, which incidentally also took Naval Command with it. It seems you're postulating all these things must exist just because. There is no central government or administration; there is no Naval Command because there is no government to fight for, only naval commands for warlords. The text identifies the Interim Council under Lord Jax as a successor to Palpatine's administration and with the "Empire proper", and after their elimination the Empire proper fades from mention, with only stalworts like Carida and warlords mentioned vis-a-vis the Empire.

Its not like I'm just making this up.

[i]The Essential Guide to Chronology by Kevin J. Anderson[/i] and Daniel Wallace, pgs 97-98 wrote:Carnor Jax and the InterimCouncil held the Empire proper, a narrow band stretching from the Outer Rim to the Colonies. But even this would not remain intact...

....With the Interim Council gone and most of the Imperial fleet disappearing into the Deep Core to form warlord allegiances, die-hard Imperial planets like the academy world Carida were left with no significant defensive forces. Carida and many other worlds throughout the former Imperial jurisdiction drew in upon themselves, fortifying their palentary defenses against any New Republic invasion.

Pelranius wrote:And it is rather strange that a warlord who took the Gorgon would actually reassign Daala's personnel to different commanders, as "other ships in other fleets" implies. I don't think there would be very much exchange of personnel among the warlords themselves, given the potential for espionage and infiltration with such personnel exchanges.

Fleets doesn't mean navies answering to competing warlords. It could easily be different fleets amongst the same warlord. Harrsk was we see takes her XO for his flagship and shortly thereafter assigns her to another fleet to retaliate against Teradoc.

Pelranius wrote:She is acting as a "freelance ambassador, a peacemaker visiting the far-flung warlords." so I admit that she took it upon herself to visit the various warlords of her own initiative.

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't understand what you're getting at here.

Anyway, you're taking a weak reference to vague "Imperial authorities" and postulating a surviving central government somewhere that is never mentioned again, and indeed, Daala does not turn to with her need coalition of warlord forces. If there was an Imperial government-without-a-military, it follows she would've folded in with them. She never disputed Harrsk when he observed that him and the other warlords were all the was of the Empire.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2007-01-02 06:29pm

What's this 'reformation' of Daala's that people are talking about. As far as I know, the last we saw of her was heading with a bunch of settlers for parts unknown at the end of Planet of Twilight?

Pelranius · Post by **Pelranius** » 2007-01-03 08:09am

Daala went to Meridian Sector during PoT, but apparently she got bored to come back to the Deep Core, where she somehow again managed to get control of the remaining warlord militaries. And according to the NEC, Vorn also followed her back.

Incidentally, Harrsk didn't exactly assign Daala to another fleet. He took his Imperators present at his fortress system, put Daala on one and attacked Teradoc's base.

I don't believe that I've really postulated anything exactly pertaining to a "central Imperial government" in those two posts relating to the "authorities". I've only mentioned those authorities to possibly be people such as Grand Moff Gann, the Inquisitorius or the Moffs, who would have been higher up on the New Order pecking hierarchy. I apologize if I've given that impression.

According to the Planet Hoppers article on the Wizards website, the Inquisitorius was headquartered on Moff Brill's capital of Prakith, and I can't find any references that they packed up and moved to Byss during the Reborn Emperor business.

General Redd Wesell, Carnor Jax's subordinate, incidentally headed Imperial Central Command, which appears to have been the Interim Council's version of the old High Command.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2007-01-03 10:27am

Pelranius wrote:According to the Planet Hoppers article on the Wizards website, the Inquisitorius was headquartered on Moff Brill's capital of Prakith, and I can't find any references that they packed up and moved to Byss during the Reborn Emperor business.

The Dark Empire Sourcebook specifically states that the Inquisitorius was based in the dungeon of the Galactic Emperor's Imperial Citadel on Byss.

General Redd Wesell, Carnor Jax's subordinate, incidentally headed Imperial Central Command, which appears to have been the Interim Council's version of the old High Command.

Central Command is not a substitute for the High Command; it existed as far back as the late 10s rS, during the Imperial invasion of Kashyyyk (a stormtrooper mentions it as having had some authority over operations during the invasion, saying that "Central Command sent my platoon to distract the Wookiees and lead them away from the real invasion" in "Pax Empirica -- The Wookiee Annihilation"). Central Command may be the Marines' equivalent to Navy Command and Army Command, or possibly the name of the regional or oversectorial supreme headquarters.

Incidentally, the name "Central Command" does not necessarily imply overall centrality; the United States Central Command is only a regional unified combatant command concerned with matters in the Middle East. It isn't even centrally located; its headquarters is at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida.

Ritterin Sophia · Post by **Ritterin Sophia** » 2007-01-03 08:55pm

Publius wrote:
Pelranius wrote:According to the Planet Hoppers article on the Wizards website, the Inquisitorius was headquartered on Moff Brill's capital of Prakith, and I can't find any references that they packed up and moved to Byss during the Reborn Emperor business.
The Dark Empire Sourcebook specifically states that the Inquisitorius was based in the dungeon of the Galactic Emperor's Imperial Citadel on Byss.

However, I believe that Planet Hoppers takes precendece, since it is newer as well as canon.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2007-01-03 09:40pm

In any case, the Inquisitorious is immaterial: it is a division of Imperial Intelligence, and the Grand Inquisitor is not necessarily a higher-ranking official than the Procurator of Justice, and in either case neither were known to align with Daala or Pelleaon's remnant, nor do they constitute a legitimate continuation of Palpatine's Empire.