Are Fallen Jedi More Powerful Than Sith?

[NeoGoomba]

Okay, I may just be grasping at straws here, but after watching Episode III again, I had a question. Are Jedi that are seduced by the Dark Side inevitably going to be more powerful than Sith because of their foundation in Jedi arts? With a more thorough understanding of the Force, would they then be more formidible Dark Side-ers than a "pure" Sith? I wonder because Palpatine suspects that if Yoda were to succumb to the Dark Side he would be immensely powerful, moreso than himself. If Vader didn't get put into his Iron Lung suit, his descent into the Dark Side would have propelled him beyond Palpatine. When Luke became Zany-Palpatine's apprentice, he also seemed to pass into that "extreme badass overpowered villain" zone.

So is it the fact that they (Jedi) have a more intimate knowledge of the Force before they gain the raw power of the Dark Side? Or have I just chosen extraordinary individuals as examples that aren't true representations?

EDIT: And are there other examples of Jedi falling to the Dark Side and becoming quite powerful?

[The Grim Squeaker]

I wonder because Palpatine suspects that if Yoda were to succumb to the Dark Side he would be immensely powerful, moreso than himself.

A note: The Sith actually were trained in the Jedi arts (they had studied them as well as rebuilding their own traditions), this among other things is what helped give Sidious the edge he needed against Yoda.

In addition Fallen Jedi might have an initial advantage (A short term boost as it were) since they won't start off with the baggage of unpleasant effects caused by long term exposure to the dark side (Early aging, insanity, etc') though this would obviously change over time.

[Darth Fanboy]

I wonder because Palpatine suspects that if Yoda were to succumb to the Dark Side he would be immensely powerful, moreso than himself.

I thought that was Dooku who suspected that, and the reason he believed that was due to Yoda's 900 years of knowledge, training, and experience. Fallen Jedi aren't going to necessairly be more powerful than a Sith.

HK 47 Edit:

Clarification- The Fallen Jedi wouldn't necessairly be more powerful based on the fact that he/she is a fallen Jedi.

[Sarevok]

The Sith order began as a offshoot of the Jedi order. In past conflicts the Sith were entirely made of former Jedi such as the Jedi civil war or Exar Kun's war. Even if you have someone who was not a Jedi to begin with such as Palpatine they still desecended from a Jedi. The Sith who fought in the Ruusan conflict that were Jedi once IIRC. It was these Sith who destroyed their old order and started a new one inform of the rule of two.

[Darth Fanboy]

Darth Bane was never a Jedi. Zannah was recruited into the Army of Light but IIRC she never had any sort of formal training prior to being recruited by Darth Bane.

[Lord Revan]

Darth Bane was never a Jedi. Zannah was recruited into the Army of Light but IIRC she never had any sort of formal training prior to being recruited by Darth Bane.

but alot if not all of the Leaders of the Brotherhood of Darkness were ex-jedi and Darth Bane learned alot from Sith Lords before that (thru scroll, manuscrits and Holocrons), from Darth Revan in particural (thru a Holocron he made while he was a Sith Lord). So while Bane himself (or any of the Sith that followed him) was never a Jedi, his teachings are based on those of fallen jedi.

[Darth Fanboy]

I see where you are coming from Revan, but this is the part of Sarevok's post I have issues with.

The Sith who fought in the Ruusan conflict that were Jedi once IIRC. It was these Sith who destroyed their old order and started a new one inform of the rule of two.

Emphasis mine. "Those Sith" that had once been Jedi were NOT the ones to reform the Sith Order based on the Rule of Two.

[consequences]

For a random guess at why this might appear to be the case:

Jedi are fundamentally about control. Taken too far, this stifles their natural potential. This half-assed guess is supported by the fact that Mace Windu, often thought to skirt the Dark Side, was indisputably one of the most badass of the Jedi.

Sith are all about lack of control. Taken too far, this prevents them from effectively applying their raw power, and leads them to attempt to use levels of power that they can not safely handle. This half-assed guess has no real support that I'm aware of apart from Palpatine 's acccelerating clone degradation.

[Darth Fanboy]

Pure DF Opinion:


As Yoda talks about in the RoTS novelization. The Sith adapted and changed to fight the next war while the Jedi were preparing to fight the same war over again. In the end, the Sith had to become more patience and rely on other aspects of the Dark Side that would not necessairly satisfy a desire for immediate control and power.

I would say that post-Bane Sith learned a lesson from fighting the Jedi, not from the Jedi themselves. They also learned from fighting with each other. Realizing that their current practices were self-destructive was what led Bane to instill more emphasis on patience and control.

Even fallen Jedi do not always excercise the best patience and control, Darth Vader was still reckless compared to his future self during the end of the Clone Wars era (Dark Lord and Clone Wars Volume 9 as references). Dooku's Dark Acolytes consisted of a handful of Fallen Jedi who did not really become much more powerful (if at all) by joining the Dark Side.

[Sarevok]

I see where you are coming from Revan, but this is the part of Sarevok's post I have issues with.

The Sith who fought in the Ruusan conflict that were Jedi once IIRC. It was these Sith who destroyed their old order and started a new one inform of the rule of two.

Emphasis mine. "Those Sith" that had once been Jedi were NOT the ones to reform the Sith Order based on the Rule of Two.

It seems my understanding was wrong. You are correct.