Continuity Issues on SW.com

[Mange]

Chee has been posting a few statements in response to questions:

a rather long and boring question about continuity, canon and the Holocron…
The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving. It remains elastic until it gets committed to film or another official source. Even then, we know there's always room for change. Though the Holocron is maintained by Licensing, it is utilized by folks throughout all the Lucas companies.

is the 'foggy window' of the EU materials as described above referring to a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe of the Film alone continuity, the 'real' Star Wars universe of the Film+EU continuity,
Film+EU continuity. Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity.

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=1050

And:

And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?
Nothing. That's why it's film only.

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=1140

I posted this as I thought this contradicted (or could be used as seen to do it and has been used that way) Chee's earlier statement regarding continuity:

a clarification is needed if the C and G level are separated, i.e. do they form independent canon or are both part of the overall continuity?

There is one overall continuity.

+http://forums.starwars.com/thread.jspa? ... start=1140

[Jim Raynor]

This is new, but Chee explicitly isn't saying that the films are the only canon. Only that there are now two separate, but BOTH official continuities: film only, and film + EU. He doesn't explicitly say which one is "superior," although he does still imply that it's film + EU . But I bet Darkstar and other movie purists would absolutely masturbate over all of this if they saw these new posts.

You're right, this does contradict what he said earlier about there being one overall continuity. I don't even see the point of making a separate "film only" continuity all of a sudden, that he won't even say is superior. It's useful for G, C, N-canon purposes to label things that Lucas himself came up with, and even I sometimes like to think of my own personally preferred version of SW that isn't polluted with bullshit like "IG-88, galactic conqueror" or "3 million uber special forces." But what's the point in suddenly making another SW history that's exactly the same, only with a lot more gaps and unanswered questions? What pisses me off about Chee's answers is that he's always looking to cover ass and not offend ANYBODY.

This looks like the motive behind his new posts:

follow up question - of the two official continuities (the films alone continuity and the films + EU continuity), is one more 'official' than the other; which is the 'true' Star Wars universe?
You're asking the Keeper of the Holocron, so of course I'm gonna be a bit biased. The "film purists" aren't the types to be hanging out on the boards so it's unlikely you'll hear much official rebuttal around these parts. With that said, the reality is that a huge number of people who have seen all 6 Star Wars films have never played a Star Wars game, visited a Star Wars website, watched a Star Wars television program, read a Star Wars publication, or purchased a Star Wars action figure or collectible. It would be great disservice to discount these people as fans.

In usual fashion, he basically sidesteps the question and avoids giving a definate answer. He implies that films + EU is more official, in his own "biased" opinion. Then he says it would be a "disservice" to discount movie purists as fans (which is irrelevant; simply saying they're wrong about some official canon facts, or doing some things they don't like doesn't mean you're discounting them as fans, the way making Luke and Leia twins wasn't discounting the Luke/Leia shippers).

He even admits that he doesn't want to resolve things:

I try to avoid the speculation and debate-resolving type questions, so I apologize in advance if I don't respond. If the answer can be found in an official source, I'll try to provide it. For anything beyond that, I'll tend to leave things unresolved.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Personally I've been working on crafting an argument that much of the Old Republic-era materials (bullshit like Jedi v. Sith with fucking medieval style weapons, the Hundred-Year Darkness with Jedi like Viking warlords, Great Hyperspace War with vessels that look like sea-going ships with engines, etc.), along with the all the NJO and post-NJO material (esp. Legacy) as non-continuity with respect to the films.

I think Mike posted a strong argument that if you have historical material with no scientific or archeological backing whatsoever near its time period, and it appears to make no sense based on what you know, you discount it at myth in many cases, and so storylines significantly removed from the films and making little logical sense are probably not canon in their explicit contents. Personally, I've already discounted these sections of canon.

[Vympel]

It's Chee's usual practice to avoid giving an answer that could actually be used to resolve an argument. That said, there is still precisely no valid reason for "movie purists" to argue that the EU is not canon, and there never will be so long as LFL exists and makes money off its creations

[VT-16]

Let's put it this way: if nothing besides the films had any sort of canon standing in LFL, Leland Chee's job wouldn't actually exist. There'd be no real need for continuity checks. :P

[Bounty]

In usual fashion, he basically sidesteps the question and avoids giving a definate answer. He implies that films + EU is more official, in his own "biased" opinion. Then he says it would be a "disservice" to discount movie purists as fans (which is irrelevant; simply saying they're wrong about some official canon facts, or doing some things they don't like doesn't mean you're discounting them as fans, the way making Luke and Leia twins wasn't discounting the Luke/Leia shippers).

Isn't he just trying to say that the movies should stay accessible to those who don't follow (or know about) the EU, hence why they don't fill in the blanks on the site?

The two continuities aren't depicting separate realities; one is the 'core' version of events everyone knows about, the other is an expanded look that includes all background materials.

Or did I misunderstand?

[Lord Poe]

But I bet Darkstar and other movie purists would absolutely masturbate over all of this if they saw these new posts.

Oh, he's been spilling his yogurt over this already:

Cumshot 1

Cumshot 2

I couldn't give less of a fuck about whatever spews from sw.com anymore, since the fucktards took over.

[Mange]

In usual fashion, he basically sidesteps the question and avoids giving a definate answer. He implies that films + EU is more official, in his own "biased" opinion. Then he says it would be a "disservice" to discount movie purists as fans (which is irrelevant; simply saying they're wrong about some official canon facts, or doing some things they don't like doesn't mean you're discounting them as fans, the way making Luke and Leia twins wasn't discounting the Luke/Leia shippers).

Isn't he just trying to say that the movies should stay accessible to those who don't follow (or know about) the EU, hence why they don't fill in the blanks on the site?

The two continuities aren't depicting separate realities; one is the 'core' version of events everyone knows about, the other is an expanded look that includes all background materials.

Or did I misunderstand?

No, that's exactly what he says. As we've seen, his words have already been distorted.

[Kane Starkiller]

Ahahaha gotta love Darkstar's take on this: "Do you hear that PLURAL he used continuities instead of continuity!"
Incredible how he pretends this is some kind of news when Michael Wong pointed this out to him years ago in their debate even including this pretty picture and he REFUSED to accept that concept. Then there is the fact that Chee clearly states that one of the two continuities is FILM+EU which means that there is no such continuity in which EU stands alone.

And here is one of the comments on his canonwars blog:

After thinking some more on it, I think the best any of them would try to go with now is saying there's more to Star Wars than just the movies.

And really no shit Sherlock. This is only what everyone has been saying for years.

[Lord Poe]

And here is one of the comments on his canonwars blog:

After thinking some more on it, I think the best any of them would try to go with now is saying there's more to Star Wars than just the movies.

And really no shit Sherlock. This is only what everyone has been saying for years.

Here's something that's been up for years on sw.com:

http://www.starwars.com/beyondthemovies

The galaxy far, far away doesn't end with the movies. The adventures continues in books, television and more...

[Jim Raynor]

I don't read Darkstar's personal whine and bitch blog, so can anybody tell me if anybody actually comments on that thing besides that Gstone idiot who I recognize from his defunct board?

EDIT: Darkstar is G2K, right? Jesus, he seems to have the majority of the comments on his OWN blog. How pathetic.

I finally read through his masturbatory raving:

While Chee's statement can only really be considered his position (since we can't really think of him as rewriting what Cerasi and Sansweet said), it nonetheless follows perfect suit with my view.

Except for that little part where he won't say that film only continuity is superior, and actually implies the opposite, which is that film+EU is?

And just look at that part where he says that Chee couldn't possibly have been rewriting past statements. Wong pointed this out a while ago, Darkstar has no understanding of the fact that canon policy statements can change as soon as someone says so.

That's Game, Set, and Match, folks, once again. I have been maintaining the position that there are two continuities for some time now, obvious as it was from the newer statements of the past few years, and confirmed by the repetitions by Lucas on disparate universes, Sue Rostoni of Licensing who acknowledged such statements, and so on and so forth. Other even harder-core SW fans acknowledged this.

Yeah, Chee's new, contradictory statements that were obviously made not to answer questions or offend any fanwhores mean that you were right about all the past statements.

[Mange]

Yes, that's basically it, Jim.

[Lord Poe]

Christ on a Sybian, I shouldn't do this..but I actually paid attention to this whole thing tonight out of boredom:

The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we've got in the Holocron. You're never going to know what George's view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving. It remains elastic until it gets committed to film or another official source. Even then, we know there's always room for change. Though the Holocron is maintained by Licensing, it is utilized by folks throughout all the Lucas companies.

is the 'foggy window' of the EU materials as described above referring to a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe of the Film alone continuity, the 'real' Star Wars universe of the Film+EU continuity,
Film+EU continuity. Anything not in the current version of the films is irrelevant to Film only continuity.

And:

And what goes in the blank timeline spaces of the Film Only universe - can we never know the history or background of that Star Wars universe like we can in the EU Star Wars universe?
Nothing. That's why it's film only.

Ok, am I not seeing the big controversy? What did Chee say that is new? The EU has always been seperate from the films, until its introduced into the "film universe", but where the films are silent, the EU is perfectly acceptable continuity.

What is RSAsshole and Gstone crowing about?

[Darth Wong]

RSA would declare victory if Chee posted that he had an especially large bowel movement today. Any excuse will do for the master of spin doctoring.

I honestly don't see how this changes anything. RSA claimed that Lucasfilm has a firm policy for its continuity, and it doesn't. Chee just reiterated that there is a larger continuity beyond just the films, but that they will not declare precisely what it is because it is subject to change. Mind you, even the films themselves have historically been subject to change, as anyone familiar with the infamous "Greedo shooting first" controversy will know.

At the end of the day, all Chee is saying is that they have a continuity but they're never going to tell the fans exactly what it is.