Cyberization, mankinds' future?

[Zor]

This is something i have been thinking about.

Recently there have been breakthoughs in Cybernetics, including the creation of fully cybernetic limbs. I could easily see that within a decade cybernetic prosthetic limbs hitting the market. Coupled with advances in robotics, it is quite conseviable that within a century, you could get prosthetic bodies like those in Ghost in the Shell, mechanical cybernetic bodies designed to look human with a human brain (possibly augmented with computers) placed inside, being developed. Besides strength, beauty (after all, you could sculp idealised physical bodies) and health benifits, such bodies could also last longer than normal human bodies thanks to modualization, standardized components and other advantages mechanical systems have in terms in terms of easing repairs, as well as the advantage of the ability of Cyborgs (they don't have to be fully cyberized for this one) to acess nets with there brains and jack into computers, along with all the other cyberpunk stuff. With advantages of strength, speed, ability to interact with machines, Physical apearance, lifespan and possibly intelligence, cyborgs could easily outdo mere unmodified humans.

The General point of the matter being this, do you think that the next step in the evolution of mankind is to drop the meat and become a race of Cyborgs?

Zor

[K. A. Pital]

Yes, of course.

Then, could I have hot cybersex like in Ghost in the Shell?

[Isana Kadeb]

Yes, I believe so. In fact I see it as inevitable.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Either we'll become cyborgs, and probably full machines eventually, or we'll just be replaced by machines; that's my view.

[Bounty]

The General point of the matter being this, do you think that the next step in the evolution of mankind is to drop the meat and become a race of Cyborgs?

Do not underestimate the human penchant for conservatism. For every person who wants to upgrade himself, I guarantee there will be a group who, for whatever reason, wants to keep their own bodies. In fact, barring some kind of horrific accident that break my biological body, I wouldn't even consider upgrading, just like I wouldn't even consider plastic surgery today. It's a purely emotional response - you can throw a hundred argument for cybernization at me and I'd have to agree with every single one - but I'm sure I'm not the only person who would react like this.

Religious reasons, philosophical reasons, romanticism, conservatism, social stigma, fear of technology, nostalgia, they'll all work against a full cybernization. So no, I don't think it'll be the next step, at least not in the forseeable future. There's a place for cybernetics as a medical tool, but not as an elective upgrade.

[Stofsk]

The General point of the matter being this, do you think that the next step in the evolution of mankind is to drop the meat and become a race of Cyborgs?

Sci-fi wank.

People are gonna go under the knife because they want to be superhuman? To say nothing of the cost which will likely be astronomical.

Even if you did have the money... I don't see why you'd want to spend it on such an 'upgrade'.

[K. A. Pital]

People are gonna go under the knife because they want to be superhuman?

People go under the knife to become slightly more beautiful or increase the size of their boobs. Becoming superhuman is obviously slightly above that.

To say nothing of the cost which will likely be astronomical.

Sooner or later when initial investments are done, the price will get lower and acceptable for general people.

[Stofsk]

People are gonna go under the knife because they want to be superhuman?

People go under the knife to become slightly more beautiful or increase the size of their boobs. Becoming superhuman is obviously slightly above that.

You're comparing breast implants to terminator-style augmentation?

To say nothing of the cost which will likely be astronomical.

Sooner or later when initial investments are done, the price will get lower and acceptable for general people.

And with 6 billion people in the world they're ALL going to have this available?

[wolveraptor]

There'd obviously be some sort of class gap due to this. Only the rich could ever afford this kind of procedure in the foreseeable future. With the human population skyrocketing, there's just no way 10 billion plus people would have this option.

Further, the kind of perfection shown in Ghost in the Shell is pure anime wankery. You really think we're ever going to be able to reproduce the human body to that fine degree? The robot would have to be self-repairing, to an extent, because anything with such gracile limb-structure would sustain a lot of stress and minor injury in day-to-day life. It would also need to be made of some extremely light alloy, and would need some incredibly small power source, as well as a great degree of flexibility to truly replicate human features.

[Singular Intellect]

And with 6 billion people in the world they're ALL going to have this available?

Vehicles are considered technology that your average joe can afford to purchase on the market.

I don't see anyone arguing that all six billion people can do so though.

[K. A. Pital]

And with 6 billion people in the world they're ALL going to have this available?

Sooner or later, mankind will be cyberized entirely. This is my firm belief. Those which would not have the ability to do so due to poverty will eventually die out because they will be evolutionary outclassed by the cyborgs. This will not take one day to see all of humanity abandon biological bodies, but perhaps several centuries.

[Surlethe]

Sooner or later, mankind will be cyberized entirely. This is my firm belief.

I would be interested in seeing an argument for this, instead of a simple statement of belief.

[Ghost Rider]

And with 6 billion people in the world they're ALL going to have this available?

Sooner or later, mankind will be cyberized entirely. This is my firm belief. Those which would not have the ability to do so due to poverty will eventually die out because they will be evolutionary outclassed by the cyborgs. This will not take one day to see all of humanity abandon biological bodies, but perhaps several centuries.

Given that there are parts of humanity that don't have electricity, and reside in near Dark Age squalor, you statement is rather broad and overreaching with a profound lack of evidence that this will happen.

And over only several centuries? Take a good long look at history and look at how little humanity has changed. So suddenly something that isn't even anything more then a pipe dream is going to be the next big thing? Especially given the world climate towards doing anything but the most superficial things to one's body?

It may be your opinion but it sounds more akin to a fanciful dream rather then something that takes in the scope of what humanity has done.

[K. A. Pital]

And over only several centuries? Take a good long look at history and look at how little humanity has changed.

I would say "how much". And then, were this changes fundamentally increasing human lifetime and agility? One may say that "yes". Then one only needs to look to the First World and the life expectancy it managed to achieve in a _very_ short time. And we do believe that sooner or later, Third World life expectancy would rise, too, due to availability of medicines and decreasing crime, right?

This thing is not much different from the rise of antibiotics.

[Darth Raptor]

For every person who wants to upgrade himself, I guarantee there will be a group who, for whatever reason, wants to keep their own bodies.

And if the two groups enter into direct competition or worse, outright warfare? It's dangerous to assume that with apotheosis comes touchy-feely enlightenment. It's entirely possible that the transhumans may not care much for the bioluddites and their outmoded ideas of morphological freedom.

[Bounty]

It's entirely possible that the transhumans may not care much for the bioluddites and their outmoded ideas of morphological freedom.

Bioluddites have the advantage of being EMP-resistant. And they don't need batteries.

More seriously, I find the idea that these "transhumans" would go to war with normal humans even more preposterous than the idea of transhumans itself. We tolerate Amish today, even though they're ass-backwards and wouldn't stand a chance if we chose to wipe them out.

[Darth Raptor]

Bioluddites have the advantage of being EMP-resistant. And they don't need batteries.

But they do need food, water and a narrow range of external living conditions. While we have the sweet end of the deal now, it's not impossible to imagine conditions that would favor a people not composed entirely of frail meat.

More seriously, I find the idea that these "transhumans" would go to war with normal humans even more preposterous than the idea of transhumans itself. We tolerate Amish today, even though they're ass-backwards and wouldn't stand a chance if we chose to wipe them out.

Who said anything about them loosing the first arrows? You don't see the leaders of humanity terrified that they'll sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids? Humans fear what they don't understand, and hate what they fear. That particular trait is probably difficult to debug too, so I don't see what's preposterous about the feeling being mutual. And to expand on your example, the Amish aren't sitting on enough weaponry to cause a global mass extinction event.

[anybody_mcc]

We should not forget about other ways that would probably go hand in hand with "cyberization" like genetics. And i think it will not start as augmentation , but in medicine , but once the replacements become better than originals ( if ) and widespread enough in the population i can see humanity going this way.

[Ghost Rider]

And over only several centuries? Take a good long look at history and look at how little humanity has changed.

I would say "how much". And then, were this changes fundamentally increasing human lifetime and agility? One may say that "yes". Then one only needs to look to the First World and the life expectancy it managed to achieve in a _very_ short time. And we do believe that sooner or later, Third World life expectancy would rise, too, due to availability of medicines and decreasing crime, right?

This thing is not much different from the rise of antibiotics.

So how is this particular bit of yours any different then your first bit?

Oh wait, you reworded and made more claims, that you haven't shown some proof that it is going towards a particular direction, just what YOU want to see it go towards.

[K. A. Pital]

Oh wait, you reworded and made more claims, that you haven't shown some proof that it is going towards a particular direction, just what YOU want to see it go towards.

Let's put it in a simple logical framework.

Recent medical advancements (including treatments) pumped up human resistance to diseases and increased human lifespan - over a very short historic period. These advancements and treatments are now almost universally present and available in the First World, well spread in the Second World and already spreading out to the Third World. This is a happening fact, not a "claim".

Cyberization is increasing human abilities and, most important, his lifespan and active lifespan - cybers would be free from aging bodies. Why would it not become popular and available like the currently present medical advancements? Just because?

Moreover, you have to remember that you can cyberize a human only once, so the sellers of this commodity will reach out more agressively to Second and then Third World markets when they had already cyberized possible First World clients.

How is this different from how pharmaceutics are spreading through the world, and why should it take more time than several centuries?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Much as I would like to say cyberization is fine, I doubt the human brain can exist indefinitely, since like all organic tissues, it will degrade over time. It's pretty much why certain brain conditions exists.

[K. A. Pital]

I doubt the human brain can exist indefinitely

Cyberization != biological immortality. The solution to that problem is most likely to be found through gene engineering combined with nanotechnology.

[LordShaithis]

*wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank wank*

*spurt*

Whew. With that out of the way, don't be stupid. Even if becoming a cyborg is a perfectly viable option technologically, they'll never make up more than a tiny fraction of the population.

A population of ten billion cyborgs, constantly turning over with births and deaths, all in need of manufactured parts and maintenance? Yeah, there goes the industrial production capacity of the entire planet.

This species can't even manage to supply itself with things like running water particularly well.

[K. A. Pital]

Yeah, there goes the industrial production capacity of the entire planet.

In case it's news, this industrial capacity exists to serve the needs of man. Why it would have to suddenly change it's primary task to something else when men are slowly replaced by cyborgs?

[Ritterin Sophia]

What of reproduction?