Disgruntled former Starfleet officer

[MagnusTheReD]

Oh, and what about a set of wheels (or tracks on that matter)?
Don't we need a vehicle to get around and to carry all this garbage we piled on ourselves?

[Batman]

Of course, I need an SMG!
I'll take the FN P90- nothing beats the 50 rounds magazine!

Actual stopping power rather does I'm afraid. 5.7x28 is great at defeating body armour but because of that is rather bad at stopping UNarmoured opponents (like, yanno, everyone in Trek). I'll stick with the MP5SD, or maybe a UMP.

And the silenced FN Five-seveN, again, nothing beats the 20 rounds magazine!

Again, actual stopping power does. I'll take 17+ rounds of 9mm JHP over that any day (Glock family, anyone?).

[MagnusTheReD]

Of course, I need an SMG!
I'll take the FN P90- nothing beats the 50 rounds magazine!

Actual stopping power rather does I'm afraid. 5.7x28 is great at defeating body armour but because of that is rather bad at stopping UNarmoured opponents (like, yanno, everyone in Trek). I'll stick with the MP5SD, or maybe a UMP.

And the silenced FN Five-seveN, again, nothing beats the 20 rounds magazine!

Again, actual stopping power does. I'll take 17+ rounds of 9mm JHP over that any day (Glock family, anyone?).

[MagnusTheReD]

Of course, I need an SMG!
I'll take the FN P90- nothing beats the 50 rounds magazine!

Actual stopping power rather does I'm afraid. 5.7x28 is great at defeating body armour but because of that is rather bad at stopping UNarmoured opponents (like, yanno, everyone in Trek). I'll stick with the MP5SD, or maybe a UMP.

And the silenced FN Five-seveN, again, nothing beats the 20 rounds magazine!

Again, actual stopping power does. I'll take 17+ rounds of 9mm JHP over that any day (Glock family, anyone?).

Oh, shit, sorry for the mess!

Yeah, you're right, I think Ill take the HK UMP,
and a 9mm handgun, don't know which one...

[Darkwyng]

The Sig Sauer 226 is pretty good.

[color=red]http://world.guns.ru/handgun ... tm[/color]

[PayBack]

I'd take an HK UMP 45 and an HK MK23 with suppressor. Both using .45 means I'm not carrying two different calibres... though I'd probably mix some standard velocity JHPs as well as some hot load FMJs. JHP's for most jobs and hot FMJ for anything with particularly thick hides and for shooting through packing crates .

The other advantage is I'd be reasonably proficient in both as they're similar to the HK USC which I'm getting and the HK USP which I have.

Not sure I'd need anything with longer ranges as I've yet to see anything happen over 100 metres.

[Stark]

Wow, this blew out into a wank discussion REAL fast. Does it make my dick smaller if I point out that whatever ridiculous range .50cals are quoted with (or what crazy range someone might have hit something once)... it's hardly *easy* or *consistent* to shoot at that range? You'd be better off with a fucking mortar.

[Aaron]

Wow, this blew out into a wank discussion REAL fast. Does it make my dick smaller if I point out that whatever ridiculous range .50cals are quoted with (or what crazy range someone might have hit something once)... it's hardly *easy* or *consistent* to shoot at that range? You'd be better off with a fucking mortar.

In fact the sniper that made that shot missed with his first two rounds, showing just how hard it is to hit a man sized target at 2 kms. I think they only made the shot because they were the only support available at the time, I'm sure if mortors were available they would have used them.

[Batman]

Wow, this blew out into a wank discussion REAL fast. Does it make my dick smaller if I point out that whatever ridiculous range .50cals are quoted with (or what crazy range someone might have hit something once)... it's hardly *easy* or *consistent* to shoot at that range?

No, but the fact remains that 12.7x99 WILL more easily and consistently hit at GREATER ranges than smaller calibres, should you for whatever asinine reason need to engage individual targets at such ranges.

You'd be better off with a fucking mortar.

...says the man who considered 12.7x99 overkill

[Stark]

That's my point: aside from very limited specific applications, 800m is fine and Mess aside I doubt anyone on this board could hit a man at 800m. I don't see why .50cal should be more reliable beyond the mass of the weapon working to reduce recoil, however. And I've seen the recoil from .50cal rifles.

And a mortar has nice range, indirect, variable rounds, and it can kill a whole mess of people at once. Most people wouldn't even know where the shells were coming from.

[Batman]

That's my point: aside from very limited specific applications, 800m is fine and Mess aside I doubt anyone on this board could hit a man at 800m.

No argument here.

I don't see why .50cal should be more reliable beyond the mass of the weapon working to reduce recoil, however. And I've seen the recoil from .50cal rifles.

Recoil is a non-factor in this actually. By the time it forces the barrel off-target, the bullet is well on its way.
What makes 12.7x99 more reliable is the mass of the projectile.

[Darkwyng]

More reliable than that TR-116 sniper prototype from DS9.

[glass]

There would be no point in my taking guns, as I don't know how to shoot them anyway. I'd take a few good books on strategy, tactics, and military organisation/logistics.

Okay. *takes notes* Silence the SMG. They won't know what hit them until it rips through their organs.

If you are puttin a silencer on an SMG, you probably want to take a few. As I understand it, silencers don't last too long at the best of times, and very much less when attached to automatic weapons.


glass.

[MagnusTheReD]

There would be no point in my taking guns, as I don't know how to shoot them anyway. I'd take a few good books on strategy, tactics, and military organisation/logistics.

Dude, how smart do you think you need to be in order to operate a machine gun?
Most weapons are specifically designed to be as simple as a club anyway!
Just grab a reliable MG, a few ammo canisters and the Klingons are history!

[glass]

Dude, how smart do you think you need to be in order to operate a machine gun?
Most weapons are specifically designed to be as simple as a club anyway!
Just grab a reliable MG, a few ammo canisters and the Klingons are history!

You don't have to be smart, you have to be trained: I'm not. All I could do is spray bullets around and hope for the best, and I am guessing professional soldiers could to better than that, even in ST-land.

After all, it only takes one of them to get me.


glass.

[MagnusTheReD]

Dude, how smart do you think you need to be in order to operate a machine gun?
Most weapons are specifically designed to be as simple as a club anyway!
Just grab a reliable MG, a few ammo canisters and the Klingons are history!

You don't have to be smart, you have to be trained: I'm not. All I could do is spray bullets around and hope for the best, and I am guessing professional soldiers could to better than that, even in ST-land.

After all, it only takes one of them to get me.


glass.

All you need to do is to line up the reticles and squeeze the trigger.
Soldiers are trained to use tactics and all kinds of smart thing so they could coordinate their fire as a group and not shoot randomly.

It takes about a week to train an average person to shoot relatively good with an assault rifle.
It should be even easier in your case- you're lying on the ground the MG is rested on the bi pod, and you don't have to worry about hitting with every shot- just line up and spray them!
If there's 200-300 meters between you and Klingons, they are toast.

[PeZook]

There would be no point in my taking guns, as I don't know how to shoot them anyway. I'd take a few good books on strategy, tactics, and military organisation/logistics.

You could take an instruction manual and take some time to train yourself. Learning to shoot is certainly much easier than organizing an army anyways, and all the books would be available through overbloated Starfleet computer archives

If you are puttin a silencer on an SMG, you probably want to take a few. As I understand it, silencers don't last too long at the best of times, and very much less when attached to automatic weapons.

A silencer is pointless, anyway. What are you planning to do, break into Cardassian compounds or something?

[MagnusTheReD]

There would be no point in my taking guns, as I don't know how to shoot them anyway. I'd take a few good books on strategy, tactics, and military organisation/logistics.

You could take an instruction manual and take some time to train yourself. Learning to shoot is certainly much easier than organizing an army anyways, and all the books would be available through overbloated Starfleet computer archives

That's a good point.
What takes more time- learning to shoot, or how to become a skilled strategist and tactician?

[MagnusTheReD]

I still think we need a vehicle in order to oppose the forces of Federal corruption!
So what would it be?
A fast ride, an offroad ride, an armored vehicle of some sort?

[D.Turtle]

You don't have to be smart, you have to be trained: I'm not. All I could do is spray bullets around and hope for the best, and I am guessing professional soldiers could to better than that, even in ST-land.

Take a G-36:
You have a 3-times scope with which you just point the center of that targeting reticle (like in all shooters) at the enemy and press the trigger once - you will hit quite good at 200 meters from the start - without training. (Well, this much should be enough: Lie down, put your weapon on something)
When you get better, shoot targets at 400 meters or so - all lying down of course.
Then you have the aim-point on top: just look through, with both eyes open if you want, point that red glowing dot at the enemy and press the trigger.
You can hit targets up to 100 meters no problem, after a few shots (less than a magazine) you can hit targets up to 200-300 meters quite accurately.

If you think that sounds too easy: Its not, all the recruits in my company (when I still was in the German Bundeswehr) easily accomplished those feats right of the bat (not the 400m, but the rest).

All a bit more than the 5-15 meters that ST combat takes place at.

[Darth Wong]

Of course, you're assuming that the sights/scope have been properly aligned beforehand. The first time I tried shooting a rifle, it somehow didn't occur to me that the sights might be seriously misaligned. It took me a while to notice that it was always off in the same certain direction.

[D.Turtle]

True, there is always that. The optical sights do misalign quite easily.

The aim-point (is that actually the correct english term?) however does not misalign very easily (at least in my experience, which is in no way a qualifier).

It doesn't even use batteries, so no running out of power (it has batteries for night use though).

[Darth Wong]

Iron sights are more rugged than a scope, of course. Mind you, even those can be misadjusted. Not that it matters when you're dealing with soldiers who seem almost eager to use any sort of excuse to drop their guns and use knives instead.

I love the way the first thing they always do when encountering one of these "dampening fields" is to say "We'll have to use swords" instead of "We have to find some kind of gun that will work in this environment".

[MagnusTheReD]

Of course, you're assuming that the sights/scope have been properly aligned beforehand. The first time I tried shooting a rifle, it somehow didn't occur to me that the sights might be seriously misaligned. It took me a while to notice that it was always off in the same certain direction.

Well, that's an interesting point.
It never occurred to me that the guy who will be handing me the weapon before sending to fight the Klingons could actually give me a misadjusted weapon!

Another option is to make every second bullet in the magazine a tracing bullet. This way you'll always know where shots hit.
The problem is that I heard that tracing bullets produce significantly more heat when ignited- thus too many tracers in a row might damage the barrel.
Is this true?

[D.Turtle]

You don't really need a tracer to see where you are shooting - you can see it hitting the ground (unless it is massively misaligned, but even then, shooting around the target a bit will let you figure out where it shoots relatively quickly).

Also if its misaligned, you only have to figure out the new point to aim with once - it does not wander around while you're just lying on the ground and shooting.

Haven't heard of the tracer thing, but then I have never seen a tracer round for my G-36.
For the MG-3 we of course had tracer rounds, but we (as in tank drivers) don't really care about overheating ("Who cares if the MG is burning, just fucking shoot!") or damaging the barrel.
Also AFAIK the trajectory is different - not massively so, but there is a reason you have tracers on an MG and not with your normal rifle.