Medieval 2 Battle Report & Strat Thread (Super pic hvy)

[Vympel]

Fuck, I'm actually having trouble.

Not "my Empire is in danger" trouble, but "fucking hell, that's annoying" trouble.

Where to begin?

The Turks

I took Trebizond, Tbilisi, and Yerevan from them. With only Mosul and Baghdad left, I couldn't imagine they'd have significant forces in the field, right?

Wrong. I'm about ~50 turns in give or take and so I only just recently got the Dismounted Byzantine Lancers which I rely on for pinning the enemy in place until I get Dismounted Latinikon (Byzantine Spearmen did that job out of necessity in earlier, smaller battles, but things are different now).

Anyway, my Emperor, with the best army (ie. the only one with Dismounted Byzantine Lancerrs) had just taken Edessa, a Rebel City. Out of nowhere, two ~1000 man (remember I'm using Huge Scale) stacks besiege it.

Not particularly worried about their success in an assault, I send the fairly small army I had in Yerevan under another general to Mosul. Mosul was still defended by ~1,000 men, as well as two small, 3-unit stacks outside! My general did nothing, as he's not equipped for taking the place.

The Turks still saw this as a threat, so they lifted the siege of Edessa and headed for Mosul. My army in Edessa attacked them from behind, in a big gamble.

It was a heroic victory and I crushed both stacks, with only the remnants of three units from one stack surviving. However, the army was severely depleted in the effort, the Varadariotai taking the hardest casualties because of all the enemy archers.

Problem is I can't leave Edessa because there's no garrison there yet (undeveloped town)- but I plan on ASAP leaving and joining up with the Yerevan army, using it to replenish the Emperor's army.

Egypt

Then, some fucker declares a Jihad on Constantinople. The Turks don't send anyone, but the Egyptians put together a Jihad stack. Foolishly, I try and intercept it with my new, elite army I had been building in Caesarea, my military hub in the East and the most well developed Castle in the Empire. It outruns me, and is now headed for Constantinople, after double-backing east past Caesarea and then heading through the canyons past all the provinces between there and Constantinople.

I really should've just left them to go there, but I couldn't take the risk that they'd try and take one of my cities on the way. Constantinople is well defended, with three Vardariotai from a successful mission, lots of Spear and Archer Militia, Militia Cavalry, and most importantly, Ballista Towerrs. The Egypt Jihad stack is fairly low quality.

Now my army is stuck in the canyons of the Caesarea province- when it could've been better sent to take Acre. I can't decide whether to take the long journey back by foot and make war on Egypt, or pick up a Dromon from Trebizond and get to Constantinople by boat to intercept the Jihad.

Venice

The Venitians lost Jerusalem to Rebels. Their Crusade stack, however, is fully active (they must've ventured out and left Jersualem with an insufficient garrison to quell disorder)- and is staring at Antioch. It hasn't moved, however, but my Caesarea army could've been useful in crushing it. Now I have to wait turns.

In the good news column, I took Iraklion from them, so there only city left is Venice.

Papal States

These fucks sent an army into my territory to try and take Durazzo. The army being built in Ragusa, my military hub in the West, destroyed their stack fairly easily, but that's another enemy I now have!

Sicily

They asked for a ceasefire after I crushed their earlier attempt to take Ragusa- which I've granted- but they've landed another stack- with catapults, right outside- and are just sitting there. If I didn't have that army in Ragusa I'm certain they'll make a play for it, but I don't want to attack them first out of fear they'll make trouble for me elsewhere.

Hungary

Still at war with them, but they've been quiet. The army at Sofia, the military hub in the North, is strong, fresh, and can take on any besieging force. I'm considering sending them out to kick over the Hungarian anthill, but I'm thinking about their being a buffer against the Mongols. Thoughts?

Fucking stressful this latest game is ...

[Darth Wong]

My game is long over in the sense that I've won, but I'm continuing because I want to wipe out every other Catholic faction and then see what happens when I attack the papal states.

As of right now, the only other surviving Catholic faction is Hungary. The British Empire stretches from the west end of the map to the east. Once I wipe them out, it's time for the Pope. The Timurids are annoying but I can deal with them later. Keeping a full-stack army in the citadel which lies along their path of attack is proving an effective way of neutralizing their advance. And the Mongols are not a serious problem. My cities with heavy bill militia can successfully hold off Mongol attacks without the need for reinforcement from citadels.

[Stravo]

When I played as the Byzantines I got into a hot and heavy war nearly off the bat with Hungary and I gobbled them up and just as I was taking their last city in the far east the Mongols showed up. This was pre-patch so these Mongols sort of loitered around my Eastern cities and essentially were a hovering nuisance that tied down my northern army for most of the rest of the game.

I would suggest leaving Hungary as a buffer against the Horde, gobble up the cities north of Sofia and on the coast of the black sea but leave the rest to the Hungarians and let them suffer the brunt of the Mongol horde when it arrives.

The only caveat is prepatch the Mongols MIGHT have taken the Hungarian cities to the east and just hung out. Post patch I can attest to the Mongols actively empire building so they might become a menace in your eastern flank before you know it if they gobble up the HUngarians.

Just like Mike I'm sort of running out the clock. There are only 2 Hungarian cities left and I'm marching a mighty (and extremely unnecceasrily large) force on Rome as the current map is a sea of red from the British Isles to the Iberian North Africa, Egypt, Jerusalem, Constantnople all the way east to the Polish lands and this little bitty white spot known as the Papal states.

I want to see what happens once I take them because according to the rule book the Papal states can never die. Time to test this out with only HUngarians left. Unless the Papal states hop on over to the Rus, in which case my Northern Culvern heavy armies begin marching immediately.

[Vympel]

Well, the Rus aren't Catholic, so wiping out Rome last should eliminate the Papacy from the game in the sense that they won't have a province. I think you'll still see the Pope bodyguard unit walking around, though.

What turn do the Mongols arrive on, again? I forget.

I have a gap in my intelligence on what the Hungary/ Poland/ HRE territory looks like now, so I've got little idea how effective Hungary would be in slowing the Mongols down.

I'm loathe to advance past Sofia, since Bucharest would be hard to hold and would be first in line if the Mongols swung south from Rus territory.

Also worrying is the edge of the map- Tbilisi is being built up to defend against a Mongol incursion, but I'll have to take Baghdad if they appear from there fairly soon so I can have ballista and cannon towers.

Do the Mongols appear in the Baghdad region, or just Sarkel?

[Stravo]

I believe the message announcing the Mongol arrival places them "Near Baghdad". I would simply build up defenses along my eastern frontier and expect the worst.

[Vympel]

I believe the message announcing the Mongol arrival places them "Near Baghdad". I would simply build up defenses along my eastern frontier and expect the worst.

Ah, so it's random- in my first game, the message said "Near Sarkel".

If I wanted to be a gamey bastard, I could save the game before they arrive and simply end turn and load until I got the result i wanted (ie. the fuck away from Baghdad).

But then- where'd be the fun in that?

[Darth Wong]

I've got the Papal States down to just two territories. I did it by simply buying their other territories from them. Offer them a generous cash payment and they give you the territory; easy as pie. That way I can reduce them to a small spot on the Italian peninsula without having to fire a shot or risk excommunication. Better yet, my Papal approval rating went up!

Of course, this strategy is only possible because I have more than two million florins thanks to an abundance of wealthy cities and traders swarming all over the New World.

[Vympel]

Of course, this strategy is only possible because I have more than two million florins thanks to an abundance of wealthy cities and traders swarming all over the New World.

2,000,000 florins ...



So when did you arrive in the New World, and how easy is it to get there? What turn are you up to?

[Darth Wong]

Of course, this strategy is only possible because I have more than two million florins thanks to an abundance of wealthy cities and traders swarming all over the New World.

2,000,000 florins ...

I know. It's kind of absurd.

So when did you arrive in the New World, and how easy is it to get there?

It's easy to get there but it takes a long time for the New World to become available at all. I'm not sure what the trigger is, but the map border suddenly moves to the left and there's a big black spot which you must explore. It's slightly annoying because you can't just click in the black spot. You have to move your ships close to the black spot, wait for a region to clear up, and then click on the visible region to move your ships forward. It takes a long time to get across.

Once you get there, I'd recommend taking the Caribbean first. That gives you a base of operations with no real risk of counterattack. From there you can easily move to North America (which has only one settlement) or the Aztec territory (which is surrounded by impassable cliffs all around its entire perimeter except for a spot on the north shore where you can land your ships). Taking the Aztec territory is somewhat manpower-intensive, as they have assloads of manpower and their melee troops are unrealistically overpowered. Luckily, they have no answer for arquebusiers. Expect to lose a lot of men taking the first city, but once you have it, you can fight off wave after wave of attackers with your gunpowder units. After a while I got used to moving my gunpowder units around to their flank, which they didn't react to for some reason, and then blasting them down the lines with my cannons. It's a beautiful sight to see those long closely packed infantry units being massacred by a cannonball going right down their lines. I once killed half of a fresh General's bodyguard unit with one shot. I've had well-placed cannon salvoes that killed more than a hundred men on the enemy side.

What turn are you up to?

I recently hit the end of the game, but it's allowing me to continue. I would ordinarily have stopped well before now but I really want to see what happens when I wipe out every other Catholic faction.

[Vympel]

It's easy to get there but it takes a long time for the New World to become available at all. I'm not sure what the trigger is, but the map border suddenly moves to the left and there's a big black spot which you must explore. It's slightly annoying because you can't just click in the black spot. You have to move your ships close to the black spot, wait for a region to clear up, and then click on the visible region to move your ships forward. It takes a long time to get across.

Once you get there, I'd recommend taking the Caribbean first. That gives you a base of operations with no real risk of counterattack. From there you can easily move to North America (which has only one settlement) or the Aztec territory (which is surrounded by impassable cliffs all around its entire perimeter except for a spot on the north shore where you can land your ships). Taking the Aztec territory is somewhat manpower-intensive, as they have assloads of manpower and their melee troops are unrealistically overpowered. Luckily, they have no answer for arquebusiers. Expect to lose a lot of men taking the first city, but once you have it, you can fight off wave after wave of attackers with your gunpowder units. After a while I got used to moving my gunpowder units around to their flank, which they didn't react to for some reason, and then blasting them down the lines with my cannons. It's a beautiful sight to see those long closely packed infantry units being massacred by a cannonball going right down their lines. I once killed half of a fresh General's bodyguard unit with one shot. I've had well-placed cannon salvoes that killed more than a hundred men on the enemy side.

Ahhh ... shit. I have two choices then- load up my turn-of-victory savegame from my original England game, or try and take the Aztecs on with a Byzantine attack force- who have no firelocks to speak of (stupid unrealistic CA design decision) and only Bombards. Hopefully Byzantine Guard Archers will be able to cut the mustard ...

[Master of Cards]

i took Rome the papal states only territory and they are still alive. I even turned over fog of war to check and they had no other towns. WTF

[The Yosemite Bear]

IIRC it's been stated taht they will reincarnate as insurgents even if you take their last town.....

[Stravo]

The manual was indeed correct. I took all the Christian lands and the papal states are still running around as a fleet, a random small army sitting outside one of my island cities doing nothing and a handful of Inquisitors running around the holy land. Upshot is that it doesn't really matter since the College of Cardinals are now all English and the Popes have been English throughout most of the game. Without any other Christian powers the Pope is no longer a factor. Now its just me, the Timurids (whom have been reduced to a wandering horde after I took Antioch their homeland) and Mongols.

Just discovered the New World and am ferrying over two large armies for conquest. I have an issue with travel time for the New World. It takes @ 5 turns to cross the Atlantic so in game terms it takes 10 years to cross the ocean.

If you conquer all the European factions (ME included) does the game still let you play?

Also a surprise and delightful discovery - you can whittle down the strenght of the Timurids through assasination. I killed a bunch of generals and even the faction heir with a horde of assassins I had loitering around the Holy Land. Made the battles a little easier going.[/code]

[Vympel]

It takes @ 5 turns to cross the Atlantic so in game terms it takes 10 years to cross the ocean.

You can't take the passage of time literally in M2TW on standard time-scale settings- just think about army land travel times- 2 years to get from Antioch to Acre?!

[Alferd Packer]

Any tips for handling a crusade against you? As the Moops, I've pissed off almost the entirety of the Catholic world, and while the Pope isn't yet at war with me, I have a feeling that a Crusade is coming my way. Is it easier to just let them take their target city, then immediately retake it? Should I have field armies ready to intercept crusading armies?

[Master of Cards]

i took out rome so that would be a crusaders target

[Vympel]

Any tips for handling a crusade against you? As the Moops, I've pissed off almost the entirety of the Catholic world, and while the Pope isn't yet at war with me, I have a feeling that a Crusade is coming my way. Is it easier to just let them take their target city, then immediately retake it? Should I have field armies ready to intercept crusading armies?

Let them take a target city? Madness- whatever for? Just fill it with men. They'll never take it, and the Crusade will be smashed in the attempt. If you do it right, that is.

In related news, I let that Egyptian Jihad army get to Constantinople. Smashed them, far too easily.

Why? Well- gunpowder hadn't been invented yet, and I had just gotten Constantinople some Ballista Towers in preparation for the attack.

The tower bug reared it's handsome head- The game thought they were cannon towers. I wasn't going to refuse it!

[Darth Wong]

It does sound weird to talk of allowing the enemy to capture a city, but there are times when you would have to deplete other nearby garrisons in order to beef up a particular city garrison and you might make a strategic choice to let the city fend for itself.

And of course, there are times early in a game where you might be too impoverished to keep a full garrison in a particular city.

[Darth Wong]

BTW, has anyone else noticed that you can retrain mecenaries now? I would have loved to have this feature in RTW, so I could retrain Cretan archers or mercenary hoplites.

[Vympel]

BTW, has anyone else noticed that you can retrain mecenaries now? I would have loved to have this feature in RTW, so I could retrain Cretan archers or mercenary hoplites.

Oh yeah, it's cool- I believe the way it works is that as long as you're in a region that traditionally "has" that unit as a mercenary available, you can retrain. I quite like using Alan Light Cavalry if I don't want to use my Vardariotai in risky maneuvers (like attacking the archers ahead of an enemy mercenary army- there's always the chance the spearmen behind them could run up and skewer them).

[Vympel]

It does sound weird to talk of allowing the enemy to capture a city, but there are times when you would have to deplete other nearby garrisons in order to beef up a particular city garrison and you might make a strategic choice to let the city fend for itself.

And of course, there are times early in a game where you might be too impoverished to keep a full garrison in a particular city.

True (I lost Rhodes that way- for like, two turns ) but if there's an incoming Crusade, it's usually far enough away that you can build up a defence that can repulse them well before they get there- or, if not repulse them, severely deplete their force to make taking the city back much easier.

It's also a bit of a role-playing pride thing for me, I take the threat of a lost city really hard and try and get it back with single-minded purpose, even if it's not that well developed (the epic battles I fought with the Venetians over the shitty little village of Durazzo for turns on end in my first Byzantine game- cut short this time round by stealing Ragusa from them when their huge army was gallavanting around the Holy Land)

[Alferd Packer]

My thinking was that the first Crusade Army would arrive very quickly, and if the Crusade was successful, I wouldn't have to deal with the other armies.

Of course, now that I have dismounted Christian guard and Urban militia available to me, I have some infantry that won't be absolutely shredded by European infantry. Also, I find that the general's units are absolutely devastating in a formed charge. I had a crappy general hit a full unit of Armored Swordsmen with a formed charge down a hill, and I killed 82 of 90 men within three seconds, and I suffered only two losses. Man, even with the revamped cavalry, that formed charge is brutal.

Finally, for the other Moops players: do the camel units have any effect on horse cavalry morale, or is that just a load of camel poop?

[Vympel]

Well, the Mongols arrived in Sarkel. I've got a diplomat there looking for them, but can't find them yet.

Doesn't gunpowder get introduced before the Mongols arrive? I forget.

Anyways- the Turks have been destroyed (one of my greatest generals died of old age a turn after Baghdad, their last city, was taken- a fitting way to go). I've pushed Egypt out of the Holy Land proper, having taken everything down to Gaza (which is currently under siege by the Emperor).

The patch has really made the enemy realise how precarious their position is- Venice is all the Venitians have left- and my spies tell me it is crammed to the gills with troops. It's going to be a bitch to take it.

It's not my priority however- I want Egypt and the rest of North Africa. I'm in full on "reunite the Roman Empire" mode.

Interestingly, Sicily has taken the Moorish possessions in North Africa- they've repeatedly tried landing troops to take Ragusa, but my navy has sunk two fleets in the attempt.

Now that the Mongols have arrived, when Hungary attacked Zagreb and I routed them, I released all their troops. They'll need them.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

Here's something odd: I am playing the Turks and I had prepared my far eastern cities very well for the coming onslaught. Stocked them up with Saracen militia, dismounted Sipahi, some hauberk militia and archers and what not.

Here's the problem: They are avoiding these extremely well fortified castles and what not. THe problem is, Caesarea and Iconium aren't as well defended, though max upgraded sans the towers. Do I instigate the Mongols to attack and siege the eastern cities?

[Vympel]

They haven't declared war on you? Where are they, exactly? Have they actually gone past those fortified positions?

The mere presence of an enemy Army- let alone a Mongol Horde, in your lands is a provocation. I'd consider you to be at war, whether declared or not.