Full body ballistic armor.

[darthbob88]

^^And also with fans of HALO. Personally, I'll hold out until he can make one of these.

[CmdrWilkens]

The thing that makes it nigh on unsuitable is the degree to which it resricts vision as well as smell and hearing. When you are in the shit or about to get in the shit you need every inch of peripheral vison along with all the other subtle hints that sound and smell carry. Yes the full head helmet is probably the only way to reduce head damage but the degree to which it decreases combat efficiency would be notable. The rest of the suit coudl be okay but I don't know about noise discipline with it. Right now because everything we use is fabric covered and we silence any and all loose points a soldier on the move (if he doesn't have to run) can be nearly silent I somehow can't see this monstrosity being in any way quiet.

[Covenant]

...Cuz it probably wouldn't matter anyway, that thing's no good for combat! Razz

How do you see it as being no good in combat? It looks to me as if it has a decent range of motion, and if it weighs as little as he says it does it shouldn't slow them down very much once they're used to it. Also assuming that it does work the way it's supposed to, but doesn't work in combat I could almost see it have a niche market with overly cautious security guards.

I can't see there being much availability for that thing to carry much, so while it would certainly be a nice thing if you're planning to get mauled by bears or people with clubs, I doubt it's going to either protect you from an IED, any amount of shrapnel, or give you the degree of movement and the ability to wear enough combat crap on your back that the army would want to deploy troops wearing it.

It reminds me of SWAT gear. Just because a giant ballistic shield and other such things make you much harder to kill doesn't mean it's much good for a combat situation. I just think it's bound to be more trouble than it's worth.

[Sarevok]

The thing that makes it nigh on unsuitable is the degree to which it resricts vision as well as smell and hearing. When you are in the shit or about to get in the shit you need every inch of peripheral vison along with all the other subtle hints that sound and smell carry. Yes the full head helmet is probably the only way to reduce head damage but the degree to which it decreases combat efficiency would be notable. The rest of the suit coudl be okay but I don't know about noise discipline with it. Right now because everything we use is fabric covered and we silence any and all loose points a soldier on the move (if he doesn't have to run) can be nearly silent I somehow can't see this monstrosity being in any way quiet.

Would it be possible to use sensors to compensate for this ?

[Tolya]

By the mere agreement to be INSIDE the armor during actual live fire tests marks this guy as clearly insane.

But I would very much like to see any live fire tests being performed. Im also curious how would it stand up to different kinds of ammo used in the military, starting from .223 FMJ up to 7.62 NATO. And a finishing touch being a burst from the M2 BMG.

[KrauserKrauser]

The use of one's self as a test dummy is actually shown to be effective historically. Take the Kevlar vest for example. The best selling point was the guy that invented it shotting himself with the vest on. Quick and easy marketing, as long as the product works.

Nothing insane about it.

[Azazal]

Just for people that were wondering, converted over to metric, figured people would want joules vs foot pounds.

5.56 x 45 NATO has a muzzle V of ~ 987.55 mps, bullet is 55 grains or 0.00356394 kg, gives a muzzle energy of 1737.88 j


7.62 X 51 NATO is a 0.009719837 kg round traveling at 859.54 mps, 3590.52 j from the muzzle.

The big three in elephant guns:
.577 Nitro Express, 0.048599183 kg, 640.00 mps, 9953.11 j
.375 H&H Magnum, 0.017495706 kg, 820.00 mps, 5882.06 j
.416 Rigby, 0.025919564 kg, 701.04 mps, 6369.18 j

.50 BMG, civilian load, 0.043091275 kg, 883.31 mps, 16810.71j


So if it really can stand up to an elephant gun, it will be great against small arms. However, I do wonder what type of round he shot with the elephant gun, was is a solid lead slug, JHP, or a FMJ?

[Aaron]

Would it be possible to use sensors to compensate for this ?

Sensors mean batteries and soldiers are already weighted down with enough shit as it is. The average soldiers load with body armor, weapon, ammo, water, etc is easily over fifty pounds. Some guys have to carry a radio or a MG and that shoots the weight up even more. Adding sensors is just going to burden them and add complexity.

[Enforcer Talen]

Goddamn, that looks hot. A full suit of body armor? We had the option of arm and leg sleeves (for shrapnel), and never wore them. It lists solar powered fresh air, but Im curious how well it handles. I also think it has too many widgets - clock, pepper spray, laser pointer, etc, etc, etc.

Ill bet, if it gets used, half of that will be left inside the wire.

[KrauserKrauser]

I'm waiting for the attachable coffee maker/blender. Because that would be damn useful when you need a cup of joe in the morning in teh middle of the battle.

Have the out nozzle located square in the butthole region for added disgust.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Just for people that were wondering, converted over to metric, figured people would want joules vs foot pounds.

5.56 x 45 NATO has a muzzle V of ~ 987.55 mps, bullet is 55 grains or 0.00356394 kg, gives a muzzle energy of 1737.88 j


7.62 X 51 NATO is a 0.009719837 kg round traveling at 859.54 mps, 3590.52 j from the muzzle.

The big three in elephant guns:
.577 Nitro Express, 0.048599183 kg, 640.00 mps, 9953.11 j
.375 H&H Magnum, 0.017495706 kg, 820.00 mps, 5882.06 j
.416 Rigby, 0.025919564 kg, 701.04 mps, 6369.18 j

.50 BMG, civilian load, 0.043091275 kg, 883.31 mps, 16810.71j


So if it really can stand up to an elephant gun, it will be great against small arms. However, I do wonder what type of round he shot with the elephant gun, was is a solid lead slug, JHP, or a FMJ?

It doesn't matter. Taking that sort of shot all concentrated in one place is different than, say, being hit by a car, where the impact is greater, but more of your body absorbs the blow. I mean, small-arms fire with a guy in the suit, that's fine. The force transmitted through the armor would probably be not all that bad. And sure it might stop an elephant gun, but all that deceleration is going to be applied to a relatively small area. I'd be willing to bet that the blunt trauma from that would be pretty severe, regardless of how uber Trojan Man's armor actually is.

[Norade]

I can't see there being much availability for that thing to carry much, so while it would certainly be a nice thing if you're planning to get mauled by bears or people with clubs, I doubt it's going to either protect you from an IED, any amount of shrapnel, or give you the degree of movement and the ability to wear enough combat crap on your back that the army would want to deploy troops wearing it.

It reminds me of SWAT gear. Just because a giant ballistic shield and other such things make you much harder to kill doesn't mean it's much good for a combat situation. I just think it's bound to be more trouble than it's worth.

Okay, I can see it being too heavy to use all the time in combat. However, unless the military already has something for this, it could be used when clearing houses, and bunkers and such. Now I have to wonder if they'd want to shell out for a suit of armor that can only be used for a few tasks.

[Enforcer Talen]

I can't see there being much availability for that thing to carry much, so while it would certainly be a nice thing if you're planning to get mauled by bears or people with clubs, I doubt it's going to either protect you from an IED, any amount of shrapnel, or give you the degree of movement and the ability to wear enough combat crap on your back that the army would want to deploy troops wearing it.

It reminds me of SWAT gear. Just because a giant ballistic shield and other such things make you much harder to kill doesn't mean it's much good for a combat situation. I just think it's bound to be more trouble than it's worth.

Okay, I can see it being too heavy to use all the time in combat. However, unless the military already has something for this, it could be used when clearing houses, and bunkers and such. Now I have to wonder if they'd want to shell out for a suit of armor that can only be used for a few tasks.

YOU try climbing 3 flights of stairs with 50 lbs on when its 120 degrees out

It can be done, but the main thing is minimize every pound possible. I'll take the abscence of limb armor, knowing I can have 1lb quickclot medical gear, and not die of heatstroke.

[Aaron]

Okay, I can see it being too heavy to use all the time in combat. However, unless the military already has something for this, it could be used when clearing houses, and bunkers and such. Now I have to wonder if they'd want to shell out for a suit of armor that can only be used for a few tasks.

Besides Enforcer Talens excellent point, where do you plan on stashing this stuff till you need it? APC's are already pretty cramped with kit to begin with and you often have to put your rucksack on the outside so there's no room to put these suits in there. Add to that successful house clearing often relies on the element of surprise which will be wasted if you spend half an hour suiting up your platoon in these things.

[KrauserKrauser]

Obviously we use the Marine space planes to get in and out. Why bother with APCs.

Space Planes! Orbital Drops for the win!

[Hawkwings]

Scene: a town in Iraq. US forces and Iraqi insurgents are having a firefight near some buildings.

Obligatory shots of both the US troops and the Iraqis

All of a sudden, 5 red triangles appear on the ground.

The words, "Deep Striking!" appear out of nowhere in a deep, metallic voice. All of a sudden, there is a blinding flash of light. The US forces and Iraqis stop firing.

As the light dims, the camera zooms in on the source of the light, revealing 8 Assault Terminators.

Someone yells, "It's the US Space Marine Corps!"

One of the Terminators points towards the Iraqis. They start moving. Fade to black.

---

Anyways...

Like I said, I would seriously doubt that suit of armor weighs only 18 kilos. If it does, why not just make it similar to normal body armor, without the fully-enclosed-ness?

[Aaron]

18 kg is 39.6 lbs, that's almost up to the soldiers basic load without weapon, or ammo.

[Darth Wong]

Just for people that were wondering, converted over to metric, figured people would want joules vs foot pounds.

5.56 x 45 NATO has a muzzle V of ~ 987.55 mps, bullet is 55 grains or 0.00356394 kg, gives a muzzle energy of 1737.88 j


7.62 X 51 NATO is a 0.009719837 kg round traveling at 859.54 mps, 3590.52 j from the muzzle.

The big three in elephant guns:
.577 Nitro Express, 0.048599183 kg, 640.00 mps, 9953.11 j
.375 H&H Magnum, 0.017495706 kg, 820.00 mps, 5882.06 j
.416 Rigby, 0.025919564 kg, 701.04 mps, 6369.18 j

.50 BMG, civilian load, 0.043091275 kg, 883.31 mps, 16810.71j


So if it really can stand up to an elephant gun, it will be great against small arms. However, I do wonder what type of round he shot with the elephant gun, was is a solid lead slug, JHP, or a FMJ?

It doesn't matter. Taking that sort of shot all concentrated in one place is different than, say, being hit by a car, where the impact is greater, but more of your body absorbs the blow. I mean, small-arms fire with a guy in the suit, that's fine. The force transmitted through the armor would probably be not all that bad. And sure it might stop an elephant gun, but all that deceleration is going to be applied to a relatively small area. I'd be willing to bet that the blunt trauma from that would be pretty severe, regardless of how uber Trojan Man's armor actually is.

You do realize one of the basic concepts behind armour in general is to spread out the impact force over a larger area, right?

[CaptainChewbacca]

18 kg is 39.6 lbs, that's almost up to the soldiers basic load without weapon, or ammo.

One wonders if this armor could be combined with the prototype exosuits we've seen being worked on in Berkley, which are supposed to be self-supporting without strain on the operator.

[The Silence and I]

18 kg is 39.6 lbs, that's almost up to the soldiers basic load without weapon, or ammo.

That's not very much weight IMO considering it is spread over the entire body. For example, most of the weight of the legs won't even be felt as the force will be transfered quickly to the leg bones while standing and walking, very little muscle involvement there. You'll notice your legs are harder to accelerate with the extra mass, but mostly only when running, not so much when walking.

You have to remember that this is not a backpack, putting all its weight on two shoulders (which is a crappy way to carry a load BTW). The helmet's wieght will fall on the spinal collumn in a way that involves little muscle use, ditto with the legs (replace spinal collumn with leg bones). The arms... well it depends on how he put the suit together, it they are firmly attached to the torso sections then a lot of the arm weight can be supported by the part of the suit attached to the torso, which reduces strain on the shoulders. As for the torso itself, its weight should be supported both by the shoulders and the hips, which will reduce fatigue.

~40 lbs is not very much when spread everywhere, if it is in fact spread out to the best of the inventor's ability. Plate Armor was rather heavy but took advantage of this fact, and I've seen fully armored men do cartwheels. Don't underestimate the value of working with the body to reduce fatigue.

Personally, I'm more interested in how much peripheral vision the user has, and how good the fresh air system is than how heavy it is.

P.S. If this armor is as good as he says it is, then it offers more protection than is really needed, and could be made lighter (Elephant gun >> AK 47 AFAIK) and possibly cheaper. Then there are the various gadgets that could be removed too.

[KrauserKrauser]

You mean soldiers don't need cock mounted time pieces?

[Dendrobius]

This armour might not be the best for a typical soldier in Iraq, but wouldn't it be pretty much tailor made for SWAT situations?

You don't exactly carry all that much with you on a SWAT bust, you don't have to walk all that far either since you're pretty much driven straight there, and ability to shrug off 99% of the stuff that criminals can possibly throw at you has to be a big bonus. Just the psychological factor would be a big advantage...facing SWAT is bad enough, facing bulletproof SWAT in that kind of armour?

Someone yells, "It's the US Space Marine Corps!"

One of the Terminators points towards the Iraqis. They start moving. Fade to black.

You forgot to add this in:
US Marines, "(Laughs)...They do not have a prayer."

[Stark]

Everyone who thinks this pretty much untested armour is awesome because it looks like Halo has been owned. He made it look like that to get just that reaction. Doesn't that bother you? How much do you WANT it to work because that would be AWESOME? He's quite successfully selling the sizzle, not the steak to all of you.

[CmdrWilkens]

18 kg is 39.6 lbs, that's almost up to the soldiers basic load without weapon, or ammo.

That's not very much weight IMO considering it is spread over the entire body. For example, most of the weight of the legs won't even be felt as the force will be transfered quickly to the leg bones while standing and walking, very little muscle involvement there. You'll notice your legs are harder to accelerate with the extra mass, but mostly only when running, not so much when walking.

OKay here's the problme wiht weight that you are not seeing. Right now a soldier on patrol [Now as in right now on the streets of Bagjdad there is a guy doing this literally almost] is carrying flak jacket, comm gear, first aid kit, knife, batteries for comm gear, helmet, goggles, water, chow, likely as not if he is US then some other fancy electronics crap plus padding and the normal accoutrements of clothing. All of this weighs just what the body armor in this system would weigh. Even granted that it replaces the flak/helmet combo this suit is still adding something on the order of 7-8 kg to the load a soldier is already carrying along with some SEVERE penalties in terms of freedom of movement. Now here is the problem, soldiers HAVE to RUN, they often have to sprint because their lives depend on going from cover to cover quickly. Any runner will tell you that every ounce you add to your weight is a penalty you will pay in terms of accelerating AND decelerating.

You have to remember that this is not a backpack, putting all its weight on two shoulders (which is a crappy way to carry a load BTW). The helmet's wieght will fall on the spinal collumn in a way that involves little muscle use, ditto with the legs (replace spinal collumn with leg bones). The arms... well it depends on how he put the suit together, it they are firmly attached to the torso sections then a lot of the arm weight can be supported by the part of the suit attached to the torso, which reduces strain on the shoulders. As for the torso itself, its weight should be supported both by the shoulders and the hips, which will reduce fatigue.

All of this is great...if you are standing still. When you are moving you have to exert the additional force neccessarry to move the additional mass and doing so in 120-130 degrees F makes such penalties very very real. Yes at rest and in a decent environment a well designed suit will not adversely affect the wearer but soldiers are in crappy environments where they are on the move for hours on end, the extra weight WILL make a difference.

~40 lbs is not very much when spread everywhere, if it is in fact spread out to the best of the inventor's ability. Plate Armor was rather heavy but took advantage of this fact, and I've seen fully armored men do cartwheels. Don't underestimate the value of working with the body to reduce fatigue.

Yes but they don't do cartwheels after walking and running about in 120F weather for 4 hours. The fatigue problems are not something which will be apparent over short term or mild climate use.

[CmdrWilkens]

The thing that makes it nigh on unsuitable is the degree to which it resricts vision as well as smell and hearing. When you are in the shit or about to get in the shit you need every inch of peripheral vison along with all the other subtle hints that sound and smell carry. Yes the full head helmet is probably the only way to reduce head damage but the degree to which it decreases combat efficiency would be notable. The rest of the suit coudl be okay but I don't know about noise discipline with it. Right now because everything we use is fabric covered and we silence any and all loose points a soldier on the move (if he doesn't have to run) can be nearly silent I somehow can't see this monstrosity being in any way quiet.

Would it be possible to use sensors to compensate for this ?

Cpl Kendall already pointed out most of this but also of import is the fact that video images don't give the same perception as the naked eye so additional training would be required to utilize that and we currently have no sensor I am aware of that can transmit smell.