North Korea: What should America do?

Rathark · Post by **Rathark** » 2003-01-01 04:42am

Given NK's recent expulsion of two UN monitors, how should the USA respond? What would be the most moral and ethical action? The most tactically advantageous? And, finally, what would be the most LIKELY action?

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 06:31am

Rathark wrote:Given NK's recent expulsion of two UN monitors, how should the USA respond? What would be the most moral and ethical action? The most tactically advantageous? And, finally, what would be the most LIKELY action?

http://pub82.ezboard.com/fhistorypoliti ... ic&index=6

- There's a repost of an analysis by Steve den Beste which says we're already doing the right thing, which is basically to ignore them and minimalize they're demands. They're using extortion tactics, plain and simple, and simply turning away from them is going to give them two choices: War or Stockpiling Stuff While Starving To Death. If Kim Jong-il wants to stay in power he'll choose the second of those options and it'll end up no big deal, at least over the next few years.

XPViking · Post by **XPViking** » 2003-01-01 07:57am

Interesting. South Korea is not keen on allowing Japanese troops to land on its soil. As well, I think Roh continuing Kim Dae Jung's "sunshine" policy is the best way to engage the North. I just hope the fur doesn't start flying.

XPViking

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 08:08am

Interesting. South Korea is not keen on allowing Japanese troops to land on its soil. As well, I think Roh continuing Kim Dae Jung's "sunshine" policy is the best way to engage the North. I just hope the fur doesn't start flying.

XPViking

I'll never understand that bullshit historical paranoia. Let's just say China invaded Russia. Imagine if the Russians rejected the Bundeswehr because they were still pissed about WW2

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 09:31am

Vympel wrote:
I'll never understand that bullshit historical paranoia. Let's just say China invaded Russia. Imagine if the Russians rejected the Bundeswehr because they were still pissed about WW2

Are you a seventh generation Russian-Australian or just someone who likes the name? Russia would launch a nuclear first strike - Against China and against Germany too for making a suggestion like that - before it accepted the Bundeswehr on its home soil.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 09:34am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote: Are you a seventh generation Russian-Australian or just someone who likes the name? Russia would launch a nuclear first strike - Against China and against Germany too for making a suggestion like that - before it accepted the Bundeswehr on its home soil.

I'm Greek-Aussie actually. And yes, I do like the name

Leaving out nukes, if I was in charge I would definitely accept German/American/French/Australian and whatever to help defend the nation. It's stupid long memory bullshit and it serves no purpose.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 09:42am

Vympel wrote:
I'm Greek-Aussie actually. And yes, I do like the name

That explains why you hate Turkey. Hand over all of your beautiful women, Christian dog! And young boys, too!

Leaving out nukes, if I was in charge I would definitely accept German/American/French/Australian and whatever to help defend the nation. It's stupid long memory bullshit and it serves no purpose.

China may be part of the reason for the warming of relations between the USA and Russia. Our Cold War was a rather friendly conflict, in terms of the militaries, and so the idea of U.S. troops helping defend Siberia against future Chinese aggression is hardly inconceivable.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 09:45am

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:
That explains why you hate Turkey. Hand over all of your beautiful women, Christian dog! And young boys, too!

You'll get no Jannisaries out of me, barbarian! To the walls!!!

China may be part of the reason for the warming of relations between the USA and Russia. Our Cold War was a rather friendly conflict, in terms of the militaries, and so the idea of U.S. troops helping defend Siberia against future Chinese aggression is hardly inconceivable.

It was even concieved in a good game called People's General and a terrible book called Bear and the Dragon

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2003-01-01 09:48am

Vympel wrote: Leaving out nukes, if I was in charge I would definitely accept German/American/French/Australian and whatever to help defend the nation. It's stupid long memory bullshit and it serves no purpose.

What you consider long term others would consider short. After all, if the last two time German troops were on your soil within the last 100 years they were a invading force and up until 12 years ago were trained and positioned for the sole purpose (in your mind) of doing it again, you might be just a little apprehensive about accepting their help.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 10:01am

Phil Skayhan wrote:
What you consider long term others would consider short. After all, if the last two time German troops were on your soil within the last 100 years they were a invading force and up until 12 years ago were trained and positioned for the sole purpose (in your mind) of doing it again, you might be just a little apprehensive about accepting their help.

Why? Are they going to sneak in and invade and try to find lebensraum all over again? It's irrational.

Phil Skayhan · Post by **Phil Skayhan** » 2003-01-01 10:38am

Vympel wrote: Why? Are they going to sneak in and invade and try to find lebensraum all over again? It's irrational.

Congratulations, you've just discovered Russian paranoia. Of course it's irrational, but there are reasons behind it.

Now apply that to Korea which has centuries of conflict with Japan and the racist attitude (look! more irrationality) of each against the other.

Politics is as often ruled by passion as by reason... if not more. So while in a perfect world Korea would gladly accept help from Japan, in a perfect world it wouldn't have a reason to need help at all.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 10:42am

Phil Skayhan wrote:
Congratulations, you've just discovered Russian paranoia. Of course it's irrational, but there are reasons behind it.

Where national survival is at stake, I severely doubt that paranoia would win the day. Realpolitik.

Now apply that to Korea which has centuries of conflict with Japan and the racist attitude (look! more irrationality) of each against the other.

Politics is as often ruled by passion as by reason... if not more. So while in a perfect world Korea would gladly accept help from Japan, in a perfect world it wouldn't have a reason to need help at all.

South Korea doesn't need help from Japan regardless. But if it DID- it would be a fool who would rather see their entire nation crushed than accept help from a former enemy.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 10:42am

Vympel wrote:
You'll get no Jannisaries out of me, barbarian! To the walls!!!

Your walls will not protect you from the hosts of the Sultan of Sultans, Infidel!! We shall bring up the Constantinople Gun, and God Willing, we'll send you down to Shaitan! Allahu, Ackbar!!!

It was even concieved in a good game called People's General and a terrible book called Bear and the Dragon

I know, I know. That book was rotten beyond belief. *shudders* But the basic possibility for such a conflict exists.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 11:11am

Vympel wrote:
You'll get no Jannisaries out of me, barbarian! To the walls!!!

Your walls will not protect you from the hosts of the Sultan of Sultans, Infidel!! We shall bring up the Constantinople Gun, and God Willing, we'll send you down to Shaitan! Allahu, Ackbar!!![/quote]

Now I'm frightened

I know, I know. That book was rotten beyond belief. *shudders* But the basic possibility for such a conflict exists.

I always thought that if China ever did invade Russia NATO would come to Russia's aid purely to PREVENT Russia from going nuclear, and thus depriving the Western world of such a great big plot of potential customers

Presuming of course that Russia would need to go nuclear in the first place.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2003-01-01 11:28am

Vympel wrote:You'll get no Jannisaries out of me, barbarian! To the walls!!!

Heh, if my current game of Civilization 3 is any indication, you lose and just deported half the population of your cities to clear the jungles that displease his majesty the Sultan Osman, infidel.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 11:29am

Vympel wrote:
Now I'm frightened

Then give us your beautiful women and your young boys, Infidel - And pay the tax!

I always thought that if China ever did invade Russia NATO would come to Russia's aid purely to PREVENT Russia from going nuclear, and thus depriving the Western world of such a great big plot of potential customers

Well, not necessarily NATO, but probably the USA at the very least. We simply couldn't let China grow that strong, or Russia that weak. I am not sure about other powers. There's been some talk about us using Vietnam like Nixon used China against the USSR, though.

Presuming of course that Russia would need to go nuclear in the first place.

It depends on if they have other things going on, and if they're reorganized or not, I believe.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-01 11:34am

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Vympel wrote:You'll get no Jannisaries out of me, barbarian! To the walls!!!
Heh, if my current game of Civilization 3 is any indication, you lose and just deported half the population of your cities to clear the jungles that displease his majesty the Sultan Osman, infidel.

And if my game of Medieval: Total War is any indication, your fat lecherous Sultan was just killed on the battlefields of Palestine, crushed by the mighty Kataphraktoi!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-01-01 12:30pm

Gloria ad urbem Byzantium! To the front, and crush the heathen Moslems!

In all seriousness, though, I think the current solution is the best. Unless Kim wants his nation to become a nuclear wasteland, what exactly can he do?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-01-01 02:10pm

The DPRK is more a threat to the ROK and Japan than it is to the U.S. Being that, I think the best thing the U.S. can do is let the ROK take the lead on solving the situation, and intervene only when requested to.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-01 02:57pm

I think the US, China, Russia, Britain, and France should send some of its nuclear scientists to aide North (and South) Korea in getting their nuclear weapons program online. I know it sounds insane, but its better then hanging them out to dry and letting them screw up and leave the whole of the Japan Sea area a nuclear wasteland.

We really have nothing to fear from North Korea, they're more likely to nuke SOUTH Korea, and China would invade them in a heartbeat if they dared do that. China doesn't need a nuclear war on its doorstep and I doubt anyone would protest the invasion of NK should they use nuclear weapons. By allowing NK to go it alone we're forcing them to try and build very dangerous devices (and use breeder reactors to do so) without any experience. Dangerous thing, that.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-01 02:58pm

I love the title..."what should america do?"
Well....here's one....america has the worlds largest stockpile of weapons of mass destruction....what should the rest of the world do?
The current leader literally stole the election...what should the UN and the rest of the 'free' and 'democratic' world do about that?
America routinely invades the sovreign land of other nations....what should the world do about that?
Might makes right? It seems to.....so i suppose if people can gain power....good for them.

Keevan - in a rather bitter mood after meeting with lots of relatives.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-01 03:07pm

kojikun wrote:We really have nothing to fear from North Korea,

Except for the fact that the DPRK has a reputation for selling anything and everything for hard currency. If they're capable of producing nukes they're certainly capable of selling them to the highest bidder (say, al Qaida) and that's a threat to everyone.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-01-01 03:16pm

--Except for the fact that the DPRK has a reputation for selling anything and everything for hard currency. If they're capable of producing nukes they're certainly capable of selling them to the highest bidder (say, al Qaida) and that's a threat to everyone.--

Granted, but they're already building nukes, so we're not going to be changing anything except the likelihood of a serious accident. Besides, they might actually consider such help as a reason to STOP selling nasty weapons to people we dont like. It could be part of a deal.

The Duchess of Zeon · Post by **The Duchess of Zeon** » 2003-01-01 03:27pm

kojikun wrote:It could be part of a deal.

They violated the last deal along those exact same lines. Make another one and they just have reason to find us weak and violate it in a more extreme fashion.

We have two choices: War or Peace. Or more precisely, ending the DPRK's possession of nuclear weapons if we can, and our allies in the region suffering mushroom clouds if we can't, or letting the status quo develop into a tense stalemate for the next few decades if we don't want to risk it. We're choosing the later.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » 2003-01-01 04:02pm

"What should America do"

Why does America have to do anything. Why can't the rest of the world take a hand in controlling these damn countries?

How about France? They wine enough. Why can't they solve this problem?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

North Korea: What should America do?

North Korea: What should America do?

Re: North Korea: What should America do?