Rebels find the Federation first.

[JGregory32]

I've read a lot about how the Empire would spank Star trek like a red haired bastard step child but what if the Rebels found the wormhole first?

The time peroid I'm looking at is just after ANH. A rebel transport, lets say its carrying Leia just because, happens across the mythical wormhole to Federation space.

How would the Feds and Rebels deal with other? I'm guessing that maybe the Rebels might look at it as having a somewhat secure rear area for ship building, resorce collection, what have you.

As for the Feds? I imagine that their getting some technology in trade. A couple of droids, some blasters, etc..

Given this scenario what would happen next?

[Vehrec]

Not too terrible much. The rebels have a new source of supplies, true, but it's one without too much in the way of infrastructure that they can use. It's also a new galaxy full of hostile lifeforms that want to either have you serve their liquid god/s or cyborg you into their collective.

Feds have access to new technology, but none of the theoretical underpinnings of it, and they are probably given restricted access at best to the best technologies. Turbolasers, hyperdrive, and the virtually limitless power that is Hypermatter are all out of their reach for the time being.

Trouble starts as soon as Imperial intel sources pin down the location of said wormhole. Then we have ye olde classic threway going for both ends of said wormhole.

[Ted C]

Assuming that the Rebel Alliance explained their situation, the Federation would most likely refuse to assist them, because taking sides in the other galaxy's civil war would be a Prime Directive violation.

In any case, assuming that the Empire never discovered the wormhole and the Rebels found someone willing to assist them, they could try to trade technology for places to build their own fleet assets with which to challenge the Emperor's military. The problem would be keeping the secret, since the Rebel's don't have legions of fanatically loyal clone soldiers to enforce secrecy.

[FOG3]

The Feds usefulness for more then basic provisions is questionable. If you took a PC from today and dropped it in Intel, in the process rendering it inoperable but mostly intact ala Terminator, just shortly after the 80286 became established, would it have made a difference? The fundamental concept of transistors and circuits are the same, but the finished product isn't going to tell you about the refinements in manufacturing it's based on, nor cause the equipment to produce it and vendors to supply various things to magically appear out of nowhere.

The difference between Star Trek and Star Wars is more severe, and what shipyards the Rebels have are apparently relatively secure as is, making it questionable whether they'd want to go through the great undertaking involved in moving them. Starfighter production is spread throughout sympathetic planets, that can more discretely move things.

Federation personnel are almost guranteed to require significantly more training to be truly useful as operators of Rebel equipment or ground pounders. I doubt the Rebels are that desperate for troops.

Given Fed culture I almost wouldn't be surprised if the Rebels wouldn't be getting the short end of the stick in a major way.

Feddies: Weren't not a military, you have to help us.
Rebels: We have our own problems, and you can handle it.
Feddies: Waaah!
Rebels: ... Fine. We'll assign 1 more Correlian Corvette to guarding your border against the Borg, but that's the last one.

Fed ships are also worthless for their needs. Even the mere idea of retrofitting them is downright iffy.

The Alliance to Restore the Republic have nothing they really need that they can gain from associating with the Federation, and I frankly don't trust the Federation to be helpful.

[Batman]

Mind you that one Corvette is likely going to enough.

[Ghost Rider]

The Federation can only provide one thing, and not in any great quantity.

Warm bodies, and even then not enough to make any shift of power to the Empire.

You need infrastructure to build ships, mine materials and other such sundries. No such infrastructure in place on the Federation side and the amount of resources would be immense to establish said production facilities. This is akin to the 20th century Axis powers having a portal to 5th century France to beat the Allied forces.

[NecronLord]

The Rebels make off with the transporter and use it to best advantage to pull off terrorist heists.

[darthbob88]

The Rebels gain access to three things, as far as I see: Warm bodies, although not in any great quantity; Lots and lots of space to establish an infrastructure in, once they get the materiel to do so; a Hide-out from the Imperials, until somebody snitches. None of these will make any significant difference in the war, aside from lengthening it significantly. The Empire still wins, and if they find the Federation, it gets screwed six ways from Sunday.

This is akin to the 20th century Axis powers having a portal to 5th century France to beat the Allied forces.

Hey, now, don't underestimate the power of French taunting, you silly English kanigget.

[Master_Baerne]

The only useful things the Feds have are the phase cloak, which dosen't work, and the transporter, which dosen't work through shields. The Rebels go fid a more productive use of their time and ships.

[Batman]

The Rebels gain access to three things, as far as I see: Warm bodies, although not in any great quantity; Lots and lots of space to establish an infrastructure in, once they get the materiel to do so;

No they don't-at least not any infrastructure worth mentioning. Even if they have with them the info and personell base needed to get the AQ up to Wars Tech levels (when as per the OP they don't even have the CC I assumed dispatched for anti-Borg patrols), that's a job of centuries if that quickly.

a Hide-out from the Imperials, until somebody snitches. None of these will make any significant difference in the war, aside from lengthening it significantly.

It won't have any effect on the Civil War AT ALL. By the time the AQ cell of the rebellion is able to contribute to it in a meaningful manner, said Civil War is long over.

[darthbob88]

All right then, I'll correct my previous statement.

None of these will make any significant difference in the war, aside from lengthening it insignificantly. The Empire still wins, it just takes a bit longer.

[Batman]

All right then, I'll correct my previous statement.

None of these will make any significant difference in the war, aside from lengthening it insignificantly. The Empire still wins, it just takes a bit longer.

Still wrong. No. Difference. WHATSOEVER. The AQ will take centuries bare bones minimum to catch up to Wars tech.

[darthbob88]

It may well take that long to bring the AQ up to speed, but what about areas outside the Alpha Quadrant? Surely the Rebels could find someplace else and set up shop there; I see no reason why they should be restricted to a small fraction of their new galaxy. This will also lengthen the Civil War by some uncertain amount of time, since the Imperials must now search through two galaxies to find the last Rebel base, assuming they find out about Fed space at all.

Heck, if nothing else, the Rebels could pull up stakes, shift their bases to the Fed galaxy, and restore the Republic there. The Imperials will believe that they've won the war, until, many years later, a New Republic fleet appears, as large as the Imperial fleet.

This is assuming that the Imperials don't find out about the wormhole before the fledgling Republic is ready, and that the Rebels can create enough of an infrastructure to start building ships and stockpiling weaponry. And on second thought, it seems to me that the peacetime missions for the Imperial Navy will include charting space and tracking down anomalies like that wormhole. The Rebellion will be stomped in short order, and the Federation will follow shortly thereafter.

[Batman]

It may well take that long to bring the AQ up to speed, but what about areas outside the Alpha Quadrant? Surely the Rebels could find someplace else and set up shop there;

where, again, they will have a lot of space and nothing else,

I see no reason why they should be restricted to a small fraction of their new galaxy. This will also lengthen the Civil War by some uncertain amount of time, since the Imperials must now search through two galaxies to find the last Rebel base, assuming they find out about Fed space at all.

Because of what exactly? Why does COMPNOR have to search for a a rebel outpost that has no ability to affect it in any way shape or form (and wouldn't make a difference if it did) in the first place?

Heck, if nothing else, the Rebels could pull up stakes, shift their bases to the Fed galaxy, and restore the Republic there.

Because the Rebels had resources equal to the OR. Oh wait they didn't. That was the Empire. Oops.

The Imperials will believe hat they've won the war, until, many years later, a New Republic fleet appears, as large as the Imperial fleet.

some 10,000 years down the line.

This is assuming that the Imperials don't find out about the wormhole before the fledgling Republic is ready, and that the Rebels can create enough of an infrastructure to start building ships and stockpiling weaponry.

Which is impossible.

[Solauren]

Actually, the AQ could provide them with a few things

We've seen them grow clone bodies in a matter of days (early DS9 episode, Odo is a suspect in a murder), and apparently they have some intelligence (Sisko mentions in a log entry about the clone going off to start it's life)

The Klingons apparently have the technology to put memories and skills into clones (ref: TNG, episode with Kahless 'appearing to worf')

They could create an army in one hell of a hurry with that kind of technology and none of the issues the UFP seem to have.

We've seen that they can Genetically Engineer some freaky stuff. i.e Telepathic, Telekinetic humans with accelerated aging and a immune system that can really screw people over. We've seen them with diseases that accelerate your aging at rates that make Dark Side useage seem slow by comparison.

They could easily be used. Problem is, the aging virus could get very ugly and cause the rebels massive public relations problems.

We have a Transporter system that was being used by Terrorists (TNG: High Ground), which unless Picard was a total idiout, and red alert doesn't raise the shields, can go through Shields just fine. Sure, it damages DNA, but droids and Proton Torpedoes don't have DNA. One rebel ship in orbit of Coruscant with that has the potiental to assassinate Palpatine nicely.
And it's technology that was apparently covered in a science class.

There are also a few more one-episode wonders that could be useful for the Rebels, if not tide turning, that the UFP is just to pussy to use.

The Rebels, however, can be a little more lose with morals.

[darthbob88]

It may well take that long to bring the AQ up to speed, but what about areas outside the Alpha Quadrant? Surely the Rebels could find someplace else and set up shop there;

where, again, they will have a lot of space and nothing else,

Precisely, space with a bunch of planets and resources with which to build either an army or a republic. It will take a very long time, I will concede that much, but it can be done eventually.

I see no reason why they should be restricted to a small fraction of their new galaxy. This will also lengthen the Civil War by some uncertain amount of time, since the Imperials must now search through two galaxies to find the last Rebel base, assuming they find out about Fed space at all.

Because of what exactly? Why does COMPNOR have to search for a a rebel outpost that has no ability to affect it in any way shape or form (and wouldn't make a difference if it did) in the first place?

I had figured on the Emperor taking the long view of things; it is easier to wipe out a base on one planet than a civilization on many planets. Presumably, this is why the Empire sent out so many probe droids like the one that found Hoth.

Heck, if nothing else, the Rebels could pull up stakes, shift their bases to the Fed galaxy, and restore the Republic there.

Because the Rebels had resources equal to the OR. Oh wait they didn't. That was the Empire. Oops.

No arguments here, but with enough time, it could be done.

The Imperials will believe hat they've won the war, until, many years later, a New Republic fleet appears, as large as the Imperial fleet.

some 10,000 years down the line.

Again, no arguments. It would take time and lots of labor, but it could be done eventually.

This is assuming that the Imperials don't find out about the wormhole before the fledgling Republic is ready, and that the Rebels can create enough of an infrastructure to start building ships and stockpiling weaponry.

Which is impossible.

Not impossible, but it would require impractical amounts of labor.

I will concede that it is practically impossible for the Fed galaxy to have any significant impact on the Imperial forces; however, I maintain that mine is a valid theory, marred only by such piddling flaws as impossibility and impracticality. I concede the debate.

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is akin to the 20th century Axis powers having a portal to 5th century France to beat the Allied forces.

Make that 5th century random Pacific Island. Having access to France could theoretically give them an advantage, as they could pull all sorts of stupid time anomaly shit. The Pacific Islands on the other hand are far enough removed that they would need a significant invesment of infrastructure in order to do anything.

[Ghost Rider]

This is akin to the 20th century Axis powers having a portal to 5th century France to beat the Allied forces.

Make that 5th century random Pacific Island. Having access to France could theoretically give them an advantage, as they could pull all sorts of stupid time anomaly shit. The Pacific Islands on the other hand are far enough removed that they would need a significant invesment of infrastructure in order to do anything.

LOL...true, Hitler could try some whacky time alteration, course maybe with such a change to the time stream we could see Duke Nukem Forever coming out in stores sooner then later,

[Hawkwings]

Well, we know the Rebels can set up bases, why don't they just set up bases in random obscure system, and just trade with the galactic powers? Who cares about advancing the locals, just get all the useful stuff from them!

[Ghost Rider]

Well, we know the Rebels can set up bases, why don't they just set up bases in random obscure system, and just trade with the galactic powers? Who cares about advancing the locals, just get all the useful stuff from them!

What useful stuff?

The Transporter has some applications for bulk movement, but that depends on how large they can be made.

The replicator does exist in SW, and was demonstrated in the Han Solo novels by Daley.

Cloaking already exists in the SW universe.

SW used Subspace tech 25,000 years ago.

So other then minor sundry items, why take time and effort to establish bases in a galaxy that is as assbackwards to the Alliance as Medieval Earth is to us?

[NecronLord]

The Empire still wins,

You mean 'The Empire still implodes humiliatingly, and the New Republic is still founded' right?

[darthbob88]

The Empire still wins,

You mean 'The Empire still implodes humiliatingly, and the New Republic is still founded' right?

No, although that is a valid chain of events. I meant that the Rebellion can't beat the Empire on an even footing; every time they met in a "fair" fight, the Rebellion got their butts whipped. Yes, they won at Yavin, but they lost 16 out of 22 X-Wings and 6 out of 7 Y-Wings. At Hoth, they lost most of their personnel, 17 of 30 Rebel Transports, and every Kleeque-class transport and still lost the fight. At Endor, they lost 1 pilot out of 5, at least 3 Mon Cals, at least 1 Battle Horn class, and numerous other capship losses. All figures from Wookieepedia.

All of which the Empire could rebuild and replace more easily than the Rebellion. The only reason the Rebels won at Endor and afterwards is because the Emperor was an arrogant fool who underestimated the Rebellion's abilities and overestimated his own power. If he acted more wisely and more cautiously, the Empire could easily defeat the Rebellion in an open fight, and most likely, any guerrilla skirmishes as well. The Rebellion cannot hope to match the Empire.

[Batman]

Actually, the AQ could provide them with a few things
We've seen them grow clone bodies in a matter of days (early DS9 episode, Odo is a suspect in a murder), and apparently they have some intelligence (Sisko mentions in a log entry about the clone going off to start it's life)
The Klingons apparently have the technology to put memories and skills into clones (ref: TNG, episode with Kahless 'appearing to worf')
They could create an army in one hell of a hurry with that kind of technology and none of the issues the UFP seem to have.

An army they could use to do-what, exactly? They have no equipment, no fleet they could use them to man, no nothing. All this gets the Rebels is a lot of warm bodies sitting around twiddling their thumbs (and the Rebels NOT having issues with clones is debatable regardless of the wreckage the PT made of the Clone Wars).

We have a Transporter system that was being used by Terrorists (TNG: High Ground), which unless Picard was a total idiout, and red alert doesn't raise the shields, can go through Shields just fine.

Assuming they were up, Federation shields. This means they'll go through Wars shields why?

Sure, it damages DNA, but droids and Proton Torpedoes don't have DNA. One rebel ship in orbit of Coruscant with that has the potiental to assassinate Palpatine nicely.

No it doesn't until you show the space-fold transporter will work through Wars shields, too, when you have yet to show it does through Trek ones.

There are also a few more one-episode wonders that could be useful for the Rebels, if not tide turning, that the UFP is just to pussy to use.

Or maybe simply no longer has access to, or they didn't quite work out afterall. Or, maybe the Feds simply forgot about them. Not that I can think of one that would make much of a difference for the Rebels.

[NecronLord]

The only reason the Rebels won at Endor and afterwards is because the Emperor was an arrogant fool who underestimated the Rebellion's abilities and overestimated his own power.

Which is still true. If the Rebels don't gain the ability to seriously affect the original timeline, the Empire still implode pathetically.

[Hawkwings]

Remember the rebel base at dantooine?

How about a Rebel base in some random Milky Way galaxy planet?

Hey, they can even mine for raw materials and set up infrastructure.

Provided the Empire doesn't immediately find it, of course.