Talifan 2007

[Lord Poe]

Sometimes I struggle to think about subjects to make videos about..

http://blogs.starwars.com/Grand_Admiral ... 7/comments

..then people just help me out. Keep it up, motherfuckers....

[DPDarkPrimus]

Whoa whoa whoa!

Dide you see those No True Scotsmans?!

[Jim Raynor]

Who the fuck is this guy? Seriously, the "3 million" debate died down back in the summer of 2006. Half a freaking year ago. While LFL still refuses to fix the bullshit number, and Traviss still gets mentioned from time to time around here, nothing much of note has happened since then. Saying that this guy is a latecomer to the issue is an understatement.

And one deluded crusader -- proudly affecting the negative label of "Talifan", a publishing-industry term for ravenous fanatics of a particular series

And "industry term?" More like the stupid pet name used by a small club of hack authors for people who criticize their work.

ACTUALLY CREATED A VIDEO DEPICTING KAREN TRAVISS BEING THREATED WITH EXECUTION.

I see this guy is as adept at bullshitting as Dark Moose.

I am a fundamentalist Christian and a Biblical literalist

Yet ANOTHER example of relgious fundamentalism and fanwhoring going hand in hand.

[VT-16]

ACTUALLY CREATED A VIDEO DEPICTING KAREN TRAVISS BEING THREATED WITH EXECUTION.

I am a fundamentalist Christian and a Biblical literalist

That explains the above statement. Wonder if this guy would would watch Alien and claim that it is a documentary about the demonic hazards of space. :P

[Lord Poe]

Who the fuck is this guy? Seriously, the "3 million" debate died down back in the summer of 2006. Half a freaking year ago. While LFL still refuses to fix the bullshit number, and Traviss still gets mentioned from time to time around here, nothing much of note has happened since then. Saying that this guy is a latecomer to the issue is an understatement.

Curious that this comes back out of the blue, eh?

ACTUALLY CREATED A VIDEO DEPICTING KAREN TRAVISS BEING THREATED WITH EXECUTION.

I am a fundamentalist Christian and a Biblical literalist

That explains the above statement. Wonder if this guy would would watch Alien and claim that it is a documentary about the demonic hazards of space.

Hehe! Really, these idiots are laughable. Sarli has creationists in his corner, and Dark Moose has "biblical literalists" in his. My oh my....

[Jim Raynor]

I see a number of people there who, only hearing Traviss's side of the story, are expressing shock that we Talifans would get worked up over such an insignificant thing as the number of clonetroopers. Has anyone ever put together a FAQ or similar page that explains why this number doesn't work, as well as a history of Traviss's immature behavior (the real reason behind the online feud), without the cursing and insults (which would be deemed "offensive" by these ignorant kiddies)? Something we could present to ignorant people who are being deceived by Traviss's propaganda?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

I see a number of people there who, only hearing Traviss's side of the story, are expressing shock that we Talifans would get worked up over such an insignificant thing as the number of clonetroopers. Has anyone ever put together a FAQ or similar page that explains why this number doesn't work, as well as a history of Traviss's immature behavior (the real reason behind the online feud), without the cursing and insults (which would be deemed "offensive" by these ignorant kiddies)? Something we could present to ignorant people who are being deceived by Traviss's propaganda?

Wasn't there Ender's webpage? I forgot the link though.

[VT-16]

Yes, Ender did a gigantic essay on the subject. Of course, some of the information would doubtlessly be lower estimates by now, as there has been a steady increase in CW battles and clone trooper participation/deaths since it was made over half a year ago. :P

I actually have work-in-progress version of it in my inbox here.

[white_rabbit]

Relatively funny as it was, I think Mr Poe did more harm than good with his satire.

Not made a good impression with anybody, most people are probably just going to paint it as another lunatic fan.

Hindsight is 20/20 I suppose.

[Covenant]

I don't think we really expect to win a merit badge from these people if we get them to agree that they're reading something that's hideously unrealistic. Most of them wouldn't even dispute that, since these are the same people who say "real science in fiction is just silly, you can't explain things!" when you start analyzing it. I'm sure they enjoy their books a lot, and they're basically just fanwhores of your most common variety. I think we really waste too much effort on the fans--it's the writers that are worth making fun of.

[Jim Raynor]

I don't give a damn about getting these people's approval. But somebody needs to burst their bubble and expose them to the truth about their beloved author. These fans seem completely ignorant about the topic, and will just become more mindless Traviss cheerleaders. At the least they should be informed about the consequences of "3 million clones," and the ridiculous lengths that Traviss has gone to defend it.

EDIT: I don't expect these people to be easily swayed by the logic behind our "3 million" criticism (even if it's as easy as taking current day militaries and multiplying that by a couple million ), but it wouldn't be as hard to get across the fact that this feud with Traviss is more about the way she has reacted to criticism than the actual number.

[Vympel]

Hah. Another idiot who probably hasn't even seen the video. Still, it's probably pretty easy for them to concoct "sinister undertones" when your audience is a bunch of sycophants.

[white_rabbit]

I don't give a damn about getting these people's approval.

Its not particularly a problem with their approval, its the fact that at a cursory glance, you all look like raving loons. As I'm sure you are personally aware, the rest of the net doesn't generally share SD.net attitudes, or in some cases, reasonable common attitudes at all ( Dark moose and his idea of what evidence is comes to mind")

meh, forget about it, but I think you lot have fucked yourselves a little, but then I suppose it was either speak up, or join everyone else in unthinking adoration.

[Jim Raynor]

Its not particularly a problem with their approval, its the fact that at a cursory glance, you all look like raving loons. As I'm sure you are personally aware, the rest of the net doesn't generally share SD.net attitudes, or in some cases, reasonable common attitudes at all ( Dark moose and his idea of what evidence is comes to mind")

meh, forget about it, but I think you lot have fucked yourselves a little, but then I suppose it was either speak up, or join everyone else in unthinking adoration.

I wasn't responding to you, but to Covenant. As for how we look, that's why I asked if there was a summary of this whole "3 million" controversy without any cursing or insults.

[Master_Baerne]

[quote="Fingolfin_Noldor] Ender's webpage? I forgot the link though.[/quote]
What is the link? I'm curious.

[Rogue 9]

He just said he forgot what it is.

[Mange]

A pity that no "Talifan" has made a comment. And Traviss has changed her story yet again, in the comments section she says:

Thank you for your support - it's very much appreciated. But it's simply not true that I "altered" clone numbers. By repeating that myth, you do me a disservice, because this was exactly what the Marching Morons accused me of. I simply used the numbers that LFL gave its authors, the same ones that had been used by others before me like Matt Stover and Jim Luceno.

First "Talifans" and now "Marching Morons", what's next?

[Master_Baerne]

He just said he forgot what it is.

'Twas a general question.

[PainRack]

A pity that no "Talifan" has made a comment. And Traviss has changed her story yet again, in the comments section she says:

Thank you for your support - it's very much appreciated. But it's simply not true that I "altered" clone numbers. By repeating that myth, you do me a disservice, because this was exactly what the Marching Morons accused me of. I simply used the numbers that LFL gave its authors, the same ones that had been used by others before me like Matt Stover and Jim Luceno.

First "Talifans" and now "Marching Morons", what's next?

Not exactly........ Ryan did point out that the numbers given to them was authorised by LFL and presumably, were the numbers George Lucas wanted. We are stuck with the 1.2 million units from AOTC, and the AOTC novelisation depiction of units as single clones.

The problem that either you have 3 million clones who can reincarnate just to make up for losses or a multi trillion clone army capable of doing what the storyline has lined up for them seems to have escaped most of the fans though.

Its just another form of revision of the Luke & Co syndrome, where every single thing that could happen in the SWU must involve these few characters, no matter how remote the connection is.

[Mange]

A pity that no "Talifan" has made a comment. And Traviss has changed her story yet again, in the comments section she says:

Thank you for your support - it's very much appreciated. But it's simply not true that I "altered" clone numbers. By repeating that myth, you do me a disservice, because this was exactly what the Marching Morons accused me of. I simply used the numbers that LFL gave its authors, the same ones that had been used by others before me like Matt Stover and Jim Luceno.

First "Talifans" and now "Marching Morons", what's next?

Not exactly........ Ryan did point out that the numbers given to them was authorised by LFL and presumably, were the numbers George Lucas wanted. We are stuck with the 1.2 million units from AOTC, and the AOTC novelisation depiction of units as single clones.

The problem that either you have 3 million clones who can reincarnate just to make up for losses or a multi trillion clone army capable of doing what the storyline has lined up for them seems to have escaped most of the fans though.

Its just another form of revision of the Luke & Co syndrome, where every single thing that could happen in the SWU must involve these few characters, no matter how remote the connection is.

No, I don't agree (but perhaps another with more insight into this could explain further). Granted, I could misremember what Traviss has said, but Ryan Kaufman said from the start that:

"FYI, re: 3 million. LFL was very clear to us that no fixed number of total clones would or could be assigned. Therefore, the number 3 million (plus) does not represent the entire fighting force."

The 3 million clone number was said by Ryan Kaufman to have been approved when the article was approved:

The approval of the Insider 84 GGAR by LFL means 3 million is the approved number. End of story.

Also, I'm 100% certain that this is far below George Lucas radar (I don't think he cares about it all, much less know anything about it).

[K. A. Pital]

Three fucking million again? Guys. Get over it. Fuck the EU.

[Jim Raynor]

Somebody find Ender's page (preferably Ender himself ) and show it to them. It wouldn't hurt if somebody who can post on the blogs dropped by to leave a few comments in the mean time. But remember, this is their turf, so play nice. Show Traviss is incorrect without giving them an excuse to ban you or dismiss you as a misogynist stalker.

[Aaron]

Well I've posted my comments, my first foray into the Talifan scandel. I fear it won't be long unti I'm banned or my comments erased even though I was respectful. What a hassle their registration was and I assume that you have to pay to get an avatar?

[Mange]

Well I've posted my comments, my first foray into the Talifan scandel. I fear it won't be long unti I'm banned or my comments erased even though I was respectful. What a hassle their registration was and I assume that you have to pay to get an avatar?

Yes, you'll have to pay in order to get the red user name title and the avatar (as well as access to the other Hyperspace premiums). I was going to pay for another year, but since Dark Moose lied and perverted what I was actually saying in the forums, they can forget that they'll receive more money from me.

[K. A. Pital]

Mange, did Dark Goose ban you too? His behaviour was certainly disgusting; I must admit I lost a good deal of will to debate with any SW officials since that 3,000,000 debate.