Why wasn't Kyp Durron ever punished?

mjn6172 · Post by **mjn6172** » 2007-01-22 01:56pm

An odd random thought occurred to me over the weekend. Is there a reason why Kyp Durron was never punished (criminally, not just by Luke) for his actions in the Jedi Academy series? He used the Suncrusher to detonate multiple suns, including one in a populated system (Carida, home of a Stormtrooper academy). He also used his Jedi powers to remove much of Qwi Xux's memories. Why wouldn't this have gone to a trial? Killing such a large number of people on his own with a WMD has to count as some sort of a war crime. It would be like some random soldier launching a nuclear weapon at Afghanistan before America invaded.

If this has come up before (or was addressed in the books) just point me in the right direction. I didn't find anything when I searched for it on here or on the Star Wars wiki, and my old copies of the Jedi Academy series are in a box somewhere in the attic of my parents house (I think, I might have given them to the library the last time I was cleaning out my old books.) Thanks.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-01-22 02:01pm

Yeah, there was. Because KJA's writing is bullshit. sucks balls, he's a pathetic and worthless idiot author who spoiled SW with idiotic Jedi-Wank, technobabble superweapons (including re-use of cliche SW plots) and other crap.

Shortly, the reason for the bullshit about Kyp Durron is KJA himself. Does he think the Jedi were not subject to Rep. laws?

mjn6172 · Post by **mjn6172** » 2007-01-22 02:13pm

OK, well that's a given. Is there any sort of in-universe explanation though? I can't believ, "I was posessed by the spirit of an ancient Sith master, but I'm feeling much better now" is a valid excuse in their court system.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2007-01-22 02:16pm

mjn6172 wrote:OK, well that's a given. Is there any sort of in-universe explanation though? I can't believ, "I was posessed by the spirit of an ancient Sith master, but I'm feeling much better now" is a valid excuse in their court system.

Not much beyond "because Luke Said So" , and everything Stas just said

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-01-22 02:23pm

The reasonable in-universe explanation is that no one even get to know about the event sans a very limited circle of people; they chose to conspire to hide Durron from retribution and probably lie about the nebula destruction.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-01-22 03:25pm

Stas Bush wrote:The reasonable in-universe explanation is that no one even get to know about the event sans a very limited circle of people; they chose to conspire to hide Durron from retribution and probably lie about the nebula destruction.

Considering the sorry state the New Republic was in at that point, both in regards to foreign affairs and internal politics, I don't think anyone was really inclined to ask many questions. Carida's sun went supernova spontaneously? You know how those crazy Imperials are. The destruction of an uninhabited nebula and most of a rogue Imperial terrorist's fleet? Good on the Jedi and their crazy powers.

I wouldn't be surprised if few people beyond the Order and the highest levels of the NR government even knew that the Suncrusher existed. If that's the case, its rather easy to hide Kyp's crimes. As for Qwi Xux, she seemed to keep largely out of the public eye after being freed, either at the request of the Jedi, or of her own volition (she was a war criminal, after all).

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2007-01-22 09:58pm

I never read the book, but I did at the time buy some related guide to vehicles and vessels that relayed the story, and based on that, would argue that Kyp Durron should have been executed. You don't kill millions of people and then get off scott free. The fact that he was not, at the very least, sentanced to life in a New Republic penititentiary speaks volumes both about KJA's lack of writing skill, and about the diseased state of the New Republic's society.

Rooting for the Empire also does not help, because you essentially have a choice between a society that doesn't punish someone who murders millions, and a society that murders billions with impunity.

000 · Post by **000** » 2007-01-22 10:15pm

The bizarre thing is he wasn't even brought before a court of law. Luke brought him to the Senate for judgment, and the Senate decided to let Luke make the call. Luke, as we know, is just brilliant when it comes to decision making, so the rest is history.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2007-01-22 11:37pm

Well, in Luke's defense, the Imperial Senate does seem to be used for judicial purposes, to a large extent. Were I in Luke's position, upon hearing the Senate's decision, I would've said "Good call," and then sliced Kyp's head off with my lightsabre before their eyes.

Ok, well not really. I would have turned him over to the Minister of Prisons, who would lawfully execute him in accordance with all New Republic policies and proceedures (which would hopefully involve the Sarlacc, and/or enraged wookies).

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2007-01-23 12:42am

Part of it is also that I believe Garm Bel Iblis amongst others (he certainly spoke when Han came before the High Council) felt that Kyp was engaging in warfare against the declared enemy of the State and that the means were irrelevant so long as the targets were purely military. Its a crappy reason but suffice to say the Senate was not going to convict him and a good lawyer might argue that since his two targets were military in whole that he did not in fact commit any crime (somehow I don't think the SW verison of the Geneva conventions would have yet been amended to include supernovae inducing weapons). Simply put his actions are horrific but would be a tough sell if he got a good lawyer.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-01-23 12:52am

So, all the planets which were destroyed by Kyp's assholery did not have a civilian population?

Somehow this just seems ridiculous.

Oh, and the "Dark Lord told me to have revenge" bullshit doesn't fly. Anakin was corrupted by a Dark Lord and was immediately thought to have to be killed. Obi-Wan didn't try to "talk him out of it" on Mustafar, for the most part he tried to kill him.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-01-23 10:53am

Carida, at least, was a purely military target (essentially Parris Island writ large) ... I don't recall if the other stars he nuked were uninhabited, though.

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-01-23 11:26am

Not to mention the destruction of the whole Carida system (not just Carida itself the prime planet), Kyp also destroyed the Cauldron Nebula which has been known to have inhabited planets.

All to destroy a few Star Destroyers.

This can't be excused as a "military action", the guy needs a bullet in the head.

I mean, for Christ's sake, Alderaan was the center, hub world of the Rebellion which sponsored and helped the rebels both financially and with legal issues in the Senate, and it's destruction is never even doubted to be a collosal crime.

Grievous destroyed a few worlds in decimation operations (Humbarine and others), and bio-WMD'd some worlds, and he also was reviled.

And now we have the destruction of a huge number of star systems... is what? Handwaved away?

That's why I hate KJA and his writings. He's an idiot.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-01-23 01:18pm

I seem to remember Luke testifying that Kyp was "under the influence" of an evil Sith Spirit, and the NR agreed that "the guilt was enough" and they weren't qualified to punish him.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2007-01-23 02:21pm

Stas Bush wrote:Oh, and the "Dark Lord told me to have revenge" bullshit doesn't fly. Anakin was corrupted by a Dark Lord and was immediately thought to have to be killed. Obi-Wan didn't try to "talk him out of it" on Mustafar, for the most part he tried to kill him.

Well, like him or not, Stackpole did point out that Luke seems to have some "save the Dark Jedi" complex going on. I mean, when he first began to realize Joruus C'boath was evil, did he immediately decide he had to end this threat? No, he felt sorry for the guy and wanted to redeem him! I can't remember how he dealt with every other Dark Jedi he managed to come across, but at the time of the JAT he really seemed to think he could redeem them, partly because of his father. Which is probably why Luke acted the way he did.

As for the Senate deciding to defer to Luke, I honestly just don't know. I haven't read the books recently enough to know what their reasoning was beyond the "we're not qualified to judge him" thing. I also don't know about the other nebula he blew up and/or Carida having some significant civilian (unconnected to the Academy, as in not civilian employees in the Empire's service like if you blew up the Pentagon or something) population to say one way or the other.

Maybe it could have been more along the lines of a scene out of Justice League Unlimited where Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, Flash, and J'onn J'onzz decided to give themselves into the custody of the government. When some soldier goes to put restraints on them, the leader guy (warden? President?) says they won't be needed, and then says that he didn't think they would do any good anyway. Maybe the Senate figured along the same thing: how, exactly, are we going to actually be able to punish some Jedi (especially if they knew what his "ZOMG greater than Luke!" power was) without Skywalker's assistance?

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2007-01-23 03:31pm

RogueIce wrote: Maybe it could have been more along the lines of a scene out of Justice League Unlimited where Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl, Flash, and J'onn J'onzz decided to give themselves into the custody of the government. When some soldier goes to put restraints on them, the leader guy (warden? President?) says they won't be needed, and then says that he didn't think they would do any good anyway. Maybe the Senate figured along the same thing: how, exactly, are we going to actually be able to punish some Jedi (especially if they knew what his "ZOMG greater than Luke!" power was) without Skywalker's assistance?

Dozens of Droideka seem to work well enough.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-01-23 03:47pm

Against EU wank Jedi? I'm not so sure.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2007-01-23 03:54pm

Batman wrote:Against EU wank Jedi? I'm not so sure.

Luke had problems dealing with just one or two of the war machines in Survivor's Quest. Of course, droids of that type, or battle droids of any sort, are in rather short supply as of the New Republic era, and don't make any kind of resurgance until the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.

I have no doubt that the NR military could have captured or killed Luke if they really tried to do so, especially since he might have qualms about cutting down his former comrades, but it might also go the other way. Even if the Jedi was to do something truly insane, it would be very difficult to convince much of the NR military hierarchy to go after him, due to his reputation. And that's not even considering the public relations disaster that would follow. With the state of the NR as it was, authorization of force against a prominent, decorated hero of the Civil War might very well have started a new rebellion.

Post by **RogueIce** » 2007-01-23 04:11pm

Noble Ire wrote:I have no doubt that the NR military could have captured or killed Luke if they really tried to do so, especially since he might have qualms about cutting down his former comrades, but it might also go the other way. Even if the Jedi was to do something truly insane, it would be very difficult to convince much of the NR military hierarchy to go after him, due to his reputation. And that's not even considering the public relations disaster that would follow. With the state of the NR as it was, authorization of force against a prominent, decorated hero of the Civil War might very well have started a new rebellion.

Indeed. And I'm sure the Senate coming out and saying "The Jedi are now enemies of the Republic!" would be a little too close to Palpatine for comfort, I'm sure.

Basically, while they could take one the Jedi if need be (especially in the early days like JAT where there simply weren't that many) they could, but it would be a huge PR disaster on their part, and that's even if they can convince the NRDF to do it, without massive resignations by the high command.

Essentially, the only way they can punish Durron is with Luke's consent (from a political viewpoint). And that's assuming they didn't have some other motive behind it, like trying to cover up the Suncrusher fiasco (or at least how he got his hands on it and whatnot).

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2007-01-23 11:57pm

The Cauldron nebula didn't have anything to do with Carida, IIRC. It doesn't matter if it's inhabitants were civilian imperials or NR civilians.

Oh, and killing Kyp is a perfectly viable option for the New Republic, considering what the guy has done (Jedi have been killed before by non-Jedi, yes, not with ease, but they have).

I think they were intentionally covering it up. Not just Kyp, but the whole Suncrusher thing.

000 · Post by **000** » 2007-01-24 12:34am

If they tried to cover it up, they didn't do too well, considering Leona Tavira was acutely aware of the Sun Crusher's existence shortly after it was discovered.

As far as executions go, those are only reserved for guiltless Imperials like GADM Teshik. Or Lemelisk, who didn't figure out that dodging retribution is as easy as acting naive and sleeping with a Rebel hero.

Tanasinn · Post by **Tanasinn** » 2007-01-24 01:05am

The whole "he's fucking powerful/regrets his actions so we won't punish him" thing seems to be common to a lot of fiction, not that this particular case isn't any less stupid because of it.

Ice · Post by **Ice** » 2007-01-24 11:25am

000 wrote:If they tried to cover it up, they didn't do too well, considering Leona Tavira was acutely aware of the Sun Crusher's existence shortly after it was discovered.

Well, as far as that goes, I'd imagine they can't cover up the Suncrusher itself, or at least the fact that there's something out there causing stars to go nova for no apparent reason, as any amatuer astronomer in the SW galaxy would doubtless know about it.

They may have just been trying to cover up that one of their great and glorious Jedi, straight from Luke Skywalker's own academy, was the one responsible though.

I don't know how Tavira would have known what it looked like, or that the NR had it, as I'd imagine they might try to spin up some cover story for the whole deal. But who knows?

Speaking on this subject, outside of the JAT and I, Jedi has this whole incident ever really had consequences again? I mean, did people bring it up about Kyp doing things (especially WRT his very agressive stance during the NJO)? Or has it really all been swept under the rug, even amongst the Jedi themselves? Is this "something we just don't talk about" in the Jedi Order? If so, that's a missed opportunity to have something worthwhile come out of a KJA book aside from Princess Leia, Chief of State.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2007-01-24 11:27am

Ice wrote:Well, as far as that goes, I'd imagine they can't cover up the Suncrusher itself, or at least the fact that there's something out there causing stars to go nova for no apparent reason, as any amatuer astronomer in the SW galaxy would doubtless know about it.

Isn't it true that in Tales of the Bounty Hunter, it mentions how a star going nova is not enough to attract the attention of the galaxy at large?

Ice · Post by **Ice** » 2007-01-24 11:32am

Surlethe wrote:
Ice wrote:Well, as far as that goes, I'd imagine they can't cover up the Suncrusher itself, or at least the fact that there's something out there causing stars to go nova for no apparent reason, as any amatuer astronomer in the SW galaxy would doubtless know about it.
Isn't it true that in Tales of the Bounty Hunter, it mentions how a star going nova is not enough to attract the attention of the galaxy at large?

It is, but I imagine there's a difference between "expected novas" and "previously healthy stars that go nova for no readily obvious reason". Then there's the whole nebula going up. I don't know enough about astronomy, but is that a normal occurance?

Then again, we can always just chalk Tavira knowing about the Suncrusher up to the New Republic's abysmally bad information security.

EDIT: And as a minor nitpick, I know the Bounty Hunter Wars trilogy mentioned a star going nova as nothing too important. Don't know if the Tales of the Bounty Hunters anthology did or not.