They stole a scene in the movie from VOY, I think.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-01-01 02:21pm

I just remembered an episode of Voyager were they were fighting the ship which could erase things from time, and at the end, Capt. Janeway, in voyager, with her viewscreen blown out, rams into the ship to destroy it.

I think, I don't exactly remember the episode, "Year of Hell" I think.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-01 03:58pm

Yeah, that was Year of Hell, although Voyager didn't survive the ram nearly as well... IIRC, one of the nacelles broke off and smashed into the timeship as well.

beyond hope · Post by **beyond hope** » 2003-01-01 08:04pm

The whole thing with the doomsday weapon was pretty much stolen from Insurrection as well... B&B have this sick script cannibalism thing going.

Captain Cyran · Post by **Captain Cyran** » 2003-01-01 10:44pm

beyond hope wrote:The whole thing with the doomsday weapon was pretty much stolen from Insurrection as well... B&B have this sick script cannibalism thing going.

Damn B&B, they took something that with some work could have been salvaged, and turned it all to hell. DAMN THEM!

Sonnenburg · Post by **Sonnenburg** » 2003-01-02 12:35am

Well, it's not as if it was such an original idea to start with. For a while on ASVS ramming tactics by Federation ships was all the rage for the Trek side (really!).

I wish I'd seen That 70's Show before Year of Hell was broadcast so that I could add "dumbass" onto the end of everything the Timeship captain said.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-02 12:45am

beyond hope wrote:The whole thing with the doomsday weapon was pretty much stolen from Insurrection as well... B&B have this sick script cannibalism thing going.

Only in the very loosest sense.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-02 01:08am

The sad thing is that you could easily kill millions or billions with a lot of big nukes, and they don't require the ship to sit around for seven minutes in the target area. So why bother with this goofy superweapon?

There's a trend in the TNG films. In Generations, there was a supernova-inducing superweapon plot device (and the ship was endangered by technobabble, and then saved by technobabble). In Insurrection, there was a chain-reaction superweapon plot device (granted, it could only work in this particular place, but still). In Nemesis, there was a mystical radiation superweapon plot device.

Does it ever occur to these clowns that you can kill an awful lot of people with simple nukes, and that it's best to work with what you have, rather than wasting a lot of time with contrivances? It's easy to explain a weapon with a seven-minute delay as a plot device, but not if you stay in-universe. Can you imagine if modern strategic nuclear weapons were useless unless a bomber circled over the target for a 7 full minutes?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2003-01-02 02:06am

Its not like the Feds or any other AQ government is smart enough to build a giant cannon, strap it on or integrate it into a moon sized space station and give the thing more teeth than an ocean full of sharks.

Since Nemesis was a ST2 clone maybe then the next film will be a ST3 clone? Star Trek 11, the Search for Data.

but this time its only Geordi, Wesley Crusher, and Nog the Ferengi who, along with the crew of Voyager end up in Imperial Space.

I wonder what kind of CG effects would be used to make the interrogation droids?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-02 03:10am

Darth Wong wrote:The sad thing is that you could easily kill millions or billions with a lot of big nukes, and they don't require the ship to sit around for seven minutes in the target area. So why bother with this goofy superweapon?

A goofy superweapon that penetrates current Federation shield technology (IIRC), has a near 100% fatality rate, and can be charged and fired from ONE ship sitting under cloak. Since it's one-shot, the Feds never know what hit them, as a goofy superweapon suddenly shot from out of nowhere... as opposed to the Federation fleet and any nearby space stations being able to whale on you while you attack with 'conventional' weapons.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-02 03:11am

Darth Fanboy wrote:Its not like the Feds or any other AQ government is smart enough to build a giant cannon, strap it on or integrate it into a moon sized space station and give the thing more teeth than an ocean full of sharks.

That's assuming they have giant-cannon tech, and have the industrial capacity to build such a monster ship.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-02 03:26am

Uraniun235 wrote:A goofy superweapon that penetrates current Federation shield technology (IIRC), has a near 100% fatality rate, and can be charged and fired from ONE ship sitting under cloak.

One hideously expensive ship from which a small flotilla of regular ships could have been built, against a taret which has no shields to speak of (need I remind you of how the Breen blew up Starfleet HQ?). And you don't need a 100% fatality rate in order to cause terrifying devastation.

Since it's one-shot, the Feds never know what hit them, as a goofy superweapon suddenly shot from out of nowhere... as opposed to the Federation fleet and any nearby space stations being able to whale on you while you attack with 'conventional' weapons.

Yeah, sure. Like the Romulans couldn't decloak 30 loaded-up regular ships, launch a shitload of nukes and antimatter torpedoes in 10 seconds, and run, leaving millions or billions of dead behind. As if that has a lower chance of working than a goofy superweapon mounted on a ridiculously expensive, much bigger ship whose cloak is no more effective.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-02 03:27am

Hell, they stole the whole movie from ST2.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-02 03:28am

PS. The 100% planetary fatality rate is conjecture. We never saw it kill a whole planet, and I would be curious what would happen if one were to scale up the emitter that killed the Romulan Senate to the size of the Scimitar. Would the volume of the Senate building scale up to the size of a sphere large enough to encapsulate the entire planet, particularly since the emitter is not in its centre, but at one side?

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-01-02 04:45am

(need I remind you of how the Breen blew up Starfleet HQ?)

Actually, you do, I never saw that episode. All I ever heard was "Breen showed up, shit happened, Breen got fucked up." Didn't know about total lack of Earth defenses and Starfleet HQ being completely destroyed. (which apparently were dismantled between TMP and TNG)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-02 09:38am

They waltzed into the atmosphere and blew up Starfleet HQ from low altitude. Whatever defenses they were said to have in TMP were obviously either dismantled (unlikely) or pathetic (more likely).

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-02 10:04am

Isn't it possible the Breen either overwhelmed the defenses or simply got off a first volley advantage due to their cloaks.

As far as I know we don't know anything about the attack beyond that SF HQ took damage and that most of the Breen fleet got wiped out, whats your source on the low altitude attack?

If the attack had been that simple (show up, fire and then recloak) the SF shouldn't have been able to do much damage to the fleet at all.