Need help with Darkstar's follower!

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 05:02pm

Batman wrote:Actually TLs DO appear to be lightspeed weapons. Their tracers are STL.

I honestly didn't know that. I'll correct myself next time he replies.
If there will be next time, that is!

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-01-30 05:05pm

When, exactly in Wars have ships EVER taken months to get anywhere?
About the only incident that comes to mind is the MF travelling to Bespin and even that's a big maybe.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-01-30 05:07pm

I no longer have the picture, but for high powered shots in RoTJ, it is in the scene when Ackbar is looking at the Executor when she's blowing up. In the upper area of the shot you see a Mon Cal and an ISD duke it out. Then the Mon Cal fires out some very long beam and a second later the ISD goes up in flames.

No other shots were seen, so while this cannot be used to determine shielding or such, it is obvious given the mass of the ISD, and using a baseline of iron for the structure, this would take GT levels or higher. Honestly Poe I believe has even more showings but they are not unusual to find in the original trilogy.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-01-30 05:13pm

MagnusTheReD wrote:It's this or he just implies the Acclamators should've used their HTL's to clear out that arena! Together with all the jedi masters...

His words were: "Furthermore, if the turbolaser blasts actually exchanged in the AoTC battle were actually in the gigaton range, the hit that dismounted that gun would've created an explosion of Hiroshima proportions."

I like the vagueness of his statements with phrases such as "AoTC battle" and "hit that dismounted that gun". I'd like to know what exact event that was since the only AoTC battle that I know where exchanges of fire that could be considered light turbolaser fire was used was the Battle of Geonosis when the artillery shot down the Federation ship. Even then, that's not exactly a hit that dismounted any gun. It was a laser (which do not act like normal capital ship turbolasers) that brought down an unprepared ship attempting for escape velocity.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-01-30 05:28pm

His logic is amazing. Let's try it in real-life: "Did you know that America does not have nuclear weapons? After all, if they had them, they would have used them in Mogadishu! Didn't you watch Blackhawk Down?"

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 05:40pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:
His words were: "Furthermore, if the turbolaser blasts actually exchanged in the AoTC battle were actually in the gigaton range, the hit that dismounted that gun would've created an explosion of Hiroshima proportions."

I like the vagueness of his statements with phrases such as "AoTC battle" and "hit that dismounted that gun".

I'm puzzled.
Could it be possible that he is talking about CIS ground forces being hit by Republic forces, thus completely ignoring the fact that only Acclamators got GT range TL's? He may be just dumb enough for that...

And as an aside note- this guy is a total retard!
He thinks that the nuke dropped at Hiroshima was in gigaton range!

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-01-30 05:45pm

MagnusTheReD wrote:And as an aside note- this guy is a total retard!
He thinks that the nuke dropped at Hiroshima was in gigaton range!

Wow, even his google-fu fails. Little Boy was I believe within 13-16 KT.

Given we only talk about MT for modern ICBMs....he truly is ignorant, but then again we are talking about someone who thinks RSA knows shit.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 05:45pm

Darth Wong wrote:His logic is amazing. Let's try it in real-life: "Did you know that America does not have nuclear weapons? After all, if they had them, they would have used them in Mogadishu! Didn't you watch Blackhawk Down?"

His way of thinking is truly amazing!
He really does appear to be one of those rare specimens of Trektards who pass judgment about everything (including real life) solely in Trek standards!
Initially, I didn't quite believe that they exist, but this guy proves me wrong...

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-01-30 05:47pm

Love how he uses the lone example of 200,000 km range to override all the pissing distance events in Trek while at the same time using lower ranges in SW to override the longer distances.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 05:51pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
MagnusTheReD wrote:And as an aside note- this guy is a total retard!
He thinks that the nuke dropped at Hiroshima was in gigaton range!
Wow, even his google-fu fails. Little Boy was I believe within 13-16 KT.

I believe it was 12.5 KT or so, but that's not the point.

Given we only talk about MT for modern ICBMs....he truly is ignorant, but then again we are talking about someone who thinks RSA knows shit.

I doubt that he know where's Hiroshima anyway, he just probably uses it as a common form of speech he heard somewhere!
And most likely he heard it over st-vs-sw.net...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2007-01-30 05:55pm

I suggest the next time you do one of these help with DS stuff put it in HOS. The more I'm here the more I think DS has a sleeper account on the board.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-01-30 05:56pm

Darth Servo wrote:Love how he uses the lone example of 200,000 km range to override all the pissing distance events in Trek while at the same time using lower ranges in SW to override the longer distances.

Oh come on, you didn't love the tried and true "Wide beam Phaser on KILL!!!!" or "EU is nothing but garbage and not admissable evidence, but in the X-Wing novels they contradict what you're saying about on screen thus proving you wrong!"

.

The range thing was the least of the many inconsistent bits

.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-01-30 05:57pm

MagnusTheReD wrote: I'm puzzled.
Could it be possible that he is talking about CIS ground forces being hit by Republic forces, thus completely ignoring the fact that only Acclamators got GT range TL's? He may be just dumb enough for that...

I can't recall a single turbolaser being used against the CIS ground forces in that movie unless we count the micro-superlasers on the LAATs.
And what does 'the hit that dismounted the gun' mean in the first place?

And as an aside note- this guy is a total retard!
He thinks that the nuke dropped at Hiroshima was in gigaton range!

Oh give the guy a break, he's off by only 6-8 orders of magnitude

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-01-30 05:58pm

Isolder74 wrote:I suggest the next time you do one of these help with DS stuff put it in HOS. The more I'm here the more I think DS has a sleeper account on the board.

One he can't since the HoS got clogged with Spam topics and topic can't be made by anyone but Mods.

Two, so what? RSA can have his sleeper account, and know that he even touches the reply button we'll ban him again. At best it reinforces the thought that he has nothing except this and will die a lonely loser.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 06:05pm

Isolder74 wrote:I suggest the next time you do one of these help with DS stuff put it in HOS. The more I'm here the more I think DS has a sleeper account on the board.

Yes, you're right, based on where it seems to be going to (or where is already) it should be deep down the HOS.
To tell you the truth, I haven't even imagined it might actually degrade so much- in his first posts this guy appeared to be polite and intelligent, although somewhat misled by RSA's site.
I couldn't imagine myself that he may reveal himself as such a mindless trektard!

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 06:10pm

Batman wrote:
MagnusTheReD wrote: I'm puzzled.
Could it be possible that he is talking about CIS ground forces being hit by Republic forces, thus completely ignoring the fact that only Acclamators got GT range TL's? He may be just dumb enough for that...
I can't recall a single turbolaser being used against the CIS ground forces in that movie...

When did the total lack of any kind of evidence ever stopped this guy?

And what does 'the hit that dismounted the gun' mean in the first place?

That's why I'm puzzled.
Think I should ask him in another reply, or do you think I'll be sorry for that?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-01-30 06:13pm

MagnusTheReD wrote: That's why I'm puzzled.
Think I should ask him in another reply, or do you think I'll be sorry for that?

Go ahead and ask him, he'll probably baffle you with bullshit but it's not like he's not doing that already.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2007-01-30 06:15pm

The dismounted gun bit could be the scene where a manned gun (similar to the one on the DS) was hit? Someone here had posted the pic of it for me ages ago though I can't recall the thread.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-01-30 06:17pm

Hum, dee dum, dee dum.

Dragoon wrote:You're obviously from SDN. No point. No matter what evidence I provide, you will merely shout it down and scream "BUT ICS IS CANON!"

If I scream "the movies are canon" does that make them less so?

Furthermore, Lucas (and others) have specifically said that there are two continuities: the movies/novelizations and movies + the EU.

Thus, you essentially have two different canons. Which one takes precedence? The movie-only one, obviously.

Lie. Lucas never even uses the word "continuity" or "canon". He uses "parallel universe" which he explicitly defines as "select period of time", NOT "separate reality"

Nice job on pointing out to the twat about Darkstar being told he was wrong on canon policy though.

Regardless, I would tell YOU to stay away from SDN and Wong. He picks and chooses which novels to take away from and other EU sources. HE also insults his opponents constantly

And Darkstar does NOT? "Huge Gaping Vagina" ring any bells?

and assumes perfect competence on the part of the Empire, while assuming that the FEderation is incredibly incompetent.

No evidence. Just the ranting and raving of someone who knows he is getting his ass kicked but keeps trying anyway.

If you examine the EU and compare it to the ICS, then most (if not all) EU canon contradicts the ICS. For example, the X-Wing books, Zahn's books and multiple others have capital ships engaging NOT at 'light-hour' ranges, but in the 100s of kilometers range. Federation ships have been seen to successfully engage and destroy targets at 200-300,000 kilometers.

Like I said before, cherry pick the LONGEST example of combat range for Trek and the shortest for SW.

Furthermore, if the turbolaser blasts actually exchanged in the AoTC battle were actually in the gigaton range, the hit that dismounted that gun would've created an explosion of hiroshima proportions.

Its truly sad that he can't even keep his movies straight. Naming AOTC when he is clearly talking about ROTS.

You can say "They weren't full power!" But why not? Why wouldn't they be exchanging full power blasts when engaged in combat?

Because as already pointed out, the ships had been engaged in combat for hours. You do NOT use full power blasts when you're ship is worn down and the weapons suffering from overheating, etc.

See the 15th round boxer analogy.

You also have no evidence for the ESB figures being merely LTL or MTL.

Yes we do. The HTL are on the TOP of the ISD.

In addition, the X-WIng books also put the fighter weapons energy output at 'kilojoules' (read it some time)

ANH >>> novels.

and the proton torpedoes are not the incredibly high yield weapons they are said to be in the ICS. They have shrapnel.

I emphasized this one because its Darkstar's dishonest "analysis" of the ROTS novelization. The quote in question was talking about the BUZZ DROID missle and therefore wasn't SUPPOSED to produce a violent explosion. Such an explosion would vaporize the small buzz-droids.

Evidence of the mass charge? Virtually the only thing we see them use.

Except all those times they were huddled behind fortifications in ROTS.

And evidence they would actually hurt the armor? FOr god's sake! The armor can barely stop blasters! Phasers put out mejajoules of energy, enough to vaporize metal, human beings, etc.

Lie. Making something disappear into thin air is NOT "vaporization"

Furthermore, there is no evidence of widespread chemical warfare. Daala does use nerve gas to kill people in 'Darksaber', but it has never been seen to be used by the Empire in widespread use.

There hasn't been evidence of "widespread use" of Federation mortars yet this retard insists on using them en masse against the Empire. Once again, the trektard reveals his hypocricy.

The Emperor's 'best troops' also get their asses handed to them by Ewoks. 'Nuff said.

You mentioned the facts about ewoks out-numbering them, having home field advantage and the Stormtroopers winning until Chewie turned the tide but there are a few other factors that went into that engagement too.

Ewoks had the element of surprise.

What was seen in ROTJ was hardly a legion. A few dozen tops. The legion was at the front entrance thinking the attack on the back door was a diversion.

Ewok's small size makes them difficult targets to hit.

Ewoks clearly have superior strength to humans given how easily they carried R2-D2 around earlier, while Luke had to strain just to tip the little droid upright in TESB.

Stormtroopers were handicapped by direct orders from Darth Vader to take prisoners alive. "Conduct your search and bring his companions to me" Each time the Stormtroopers had the upperhand, they tried taking prisoners. When one surprises Leia in the "meet Wicket" sceen, he does NOT shoot but rather orders, "freeze" and instructs his partnet to take her back to base. At the end of the battle, a Stormtrooper has Han and Leia in his sights, does NOT shoot them but instead again tries to take them prisoner.

Furthermore, there are multiple references to using the wide setting on kill (need to look these up).

Why doesn't he? He's making the claim, he should provide the reference.

dragoon1940 12 hours 34 minutes ago wrote:Furthermore, there is no evidence that they cross their entire galaxy in 'days'. Months maybe, but not days.

Except the examples I already pointed out.

TPM: Darth Maul getting from the Galactic core to the Outer Rim in under 12 hours.
ROTS: Palpatine getting from the core to Mustafar on the outer rim in time to save Anakin whose present condition required him to be on an artificial respirator the rest of his life or die within minutes.
ANH: outer rim to Alderaan (core system) in minutes to hours.
ANH: Alderaan to Yavin by both the Falcon and the Death Star within a day.
TESB: Degobah to Baspin all while Han was being tortured.

And you can't downscale from the Death Star! The superlaser ISN'T a giant turbolaser!

The literature says otherwise.

If you look at the new DVD versions (which are canon) it starts a chain reaction and is not DET.

Did you post Wayne's picture I showed you?

http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/hate/ ... shield.gif

Why would you even need tracers if your weapons move at lightspeed anyway?

So you know which way to correct your aim, dumbass. A weapon being light speed does NOT mean it has perfect accuracy.

There is no evidence to back up light speed weapons.

Except the superlaser traversing six planetary diameters in under a second.

If they actually were, the Death Star would have shot down the incoming rebel fighters as soon as they rounded Yavin. (need I remind you that the TLs on the DS were capital ship level?)

Yes they were cap ship level and such weapons are designed to hit CAP SHIPS, not tiny highly maneuverable fighters. I repeat, a weapon being lightspeed does NOT mean the targeting system is instantaneous.

Unfortunately, the ONLY thing that supports the 200 gigaton turbolaser theory is the ICS.

Lie but even if it weren't, the ICS is still canon which is all we need to support that number.

Nothing else in the EU, the movies or the novelizations supports that.

EU: Base Delta Zero
Movies: Death Star

The third one:

dragoon1940 9 hours 19 minutes ago wrote:It has been brought to my attention that you ran for backup for the fellows at SDN. And here I thought we were having a one-on-one debate...

The tard opened that window when he started copying Darkstar's arguments.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-01-30 06:18pm

MagnusTheReD wrote:
Isolder74 wrote:I suggest the next time you do one of these help with DS stuff put it in HOS. The more I'm here the more I think DS has a sleeper account on the board.
Yes, you're right, based on where it seems to be going to (or where is already) it should be deep down the HOS.

I disagree given that this isn't you posting complete and utter hogwash, it's you REPORTING somebody posting complete and utter hogwash elsewhere. besides as GR already pointed out you can't create a thread in the HoS ANYWAY, that's up for the Mods to decide, and at least one of them has apparently decided it's fine here.

To tell you the truth, I haven't even imagined it might actually degrade so much- in his first posts this guy appeared to be polite and intelligent, although somewhat misled by RSA's site.

I might be biased given that this site was more or less the first contact I had with the vs debate but to me it seems you can either be intelligent or believe RSA in the first place.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 06:19pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
MagnusTheReD wrote: That's why I'm puzzled.
Think I should ask him in another reply, or do you think I'll be sorry for that?
Go ahead and ask him, he'll probably baffle you with bullshit but it's not like he's not doing that already.

Done.
I'm afraid I'm not gonna like his answer...

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-01-30 06:20pm

Isolder74 wrote:I suggest the next time you do one of these help with DS stuff put it in HOS. The more I'm here the more I think DS has a sleeper account on the board.

Since the Rabid Stupid Asshole has a sleeper account (I'm telling you, we need to remove not just profiles that have zero posts but also ones that haven't posted for a couple years), he has access to the HOS. The HOS would only hide it from the eyes of people like Dragoon.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-01-30 06:22pm

MagnusTheReD wrote:
Batman wrote:And what does 'the hit that dismounted the gun' mean in the first place?
That's why I'm puzzled.
Think I should ask him in another reply, or do you think I'll be sorry for that?

He's talking about the gun hit in the beginning of ROTS. The twat can't even keep his movies straight.

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 06:34pm

Darth Servo wrote:
MagnusTheReD wrote:
Batman wrote:And what does 'the hit that dismounted the gun' mean in the first place?
That's why I'm puzzled.
Think I should ask him in another reply, or do you think I'll be sorry for that?
He's talking about the gun hit in the beginning of ROTS. The twat can't even keep his movies straight.

The artillery piece thingie onboard the Venator?
So that's what he wanted to say!
It begs the question of how does he figures it was a HTL hit, rather than a hit by the same artillery piece thingie from CIS ship since they were shown subsequently firing at each other!

Darth Servo wrote:Did you post Wayne's picture I showed you?

No, he was talking about chain reaction, so I needed a shot of the explosion itself. Or is there something I'm missing over here?

MagnusTheReD · Post by **MagnusTheReD** » 2007-01-30 06:37pm

Batman wrote:
MagnusTheReD wrote: Yes, you're right, based on where it seems to be going to (or where is already) it should be deep down the HOS.
I disagree given that this isn't you posting complete and utter hogwash, it's you REPORTING somebody posting complete and utter hogwash elsewhere.

To tell you the truth, if I was the one responsible for that ...ahem, I would seriously consider suicide!