Young girl inspired by God to paint...

SLAM: debunk creationism, pseudoscience, and superstitions. Discuss logic and morality.

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Post by Darth Servo »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:Well wanting other explinations is why I asked the board.
You honestly can't come up with any on your own?
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Stark wrote:She draws a picture and you think the only explanation is 'God'? :roll:
Well wanting other explinations is why I asked the board.
There are two very easy ones.

1. She is a gifted artist and has an innate knack that allows her to pick up painting with little training because how she visualizes things in her head.

2. She adopted a very easy way to paint.

Neither of them rely upon anything mystical and have been done throughout the centuries.
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Post by Turin »

I did a little walk-through of her site, and frankly it's fucking scary to see children who have been so thoroughly brainwashed into religion.

As for her art, she's certainly a painting prodigy far in advance of her years, but it's pretty clear she has no formal training. With only a couple of exceptions, her compositions are really static and dull... which incidentally is also a good sign that she isn't using a paint-by-squares technique either. If she was painting from photographs one would assume at least a portion of them would be better composed. She's impressive now, but as an adult she'll be just another dime-store painter if she doesn't get some real training. I didn't bother to read her poetry... I have no interest in gaining more insight into the mind of an emotionally abused child.

The "testimonials" section of her site cracked me up. My favorite was this one from Lifeline/Miracle Channel Canada:
idiots wrote:Akiane is a sign of the times. What an incredible artist and poet!
A sign of the times? Oh, you mean The End Times, don't you? Fucking freaks.
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Post by Lagmonster »

Child prodigies spring up all the time. And because of the concurrent skewed childhood they endure because of their adult gifts, I'd bet that a lot of them go on to be a little loco.
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Post by Pick »

Turin wrote: As for her art, she's certainly a painting prodigy far in advance of her years, but it's pretty clear she has no formal training. With only a couple of exceptions, her compositions are really static and dull... which incidentally is also a good sign that she isn't using a paint-by-squares technique either. If she was painting from photographs one would assume at least a portion of them would be better composed.
That's hardly evidence. It's not like photographs are intrinsically well-composed :roll:.
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Post by Turin »

Pick wrote:That's hardly evidence. It's not like photographs are intrinsically well-composed :roll:.
Of course not. But unless she's deliberately selecting particular kinds of compositions (unlikely if she's untrained to begin with), then one would expect at least some of them to be decently composed. It's the lack of randomness of the kinds of composition that provides a clue.

Even if she is painting from photos, she's painting way ahead of her age group (look at her very early painting from when she was, say 6-7 years old), so I'm not sure what difference it makes. Leonardo painted using the same technique.
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Post by Darth Wong »

There's no reason to assume she can't be picking certain kinds of compositions. She claims to be "inspired by God", which is another way of saying that she's going to have a preference for a certain bland milquetoast character in her work.

Christian art is like Christian music: it's just like the real thing, but with the individuality sucked out of it.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

She's certainly a prodigy in terms of technique, there is no doubt about that. However, her composition is boring as sin and I could find subject matter that looks just like what she paints at gas stations. Much of her art is devoid of any kind of meaning except for loose religious contexts. While she's a great painter in terms of putting paint on canvas, she's not an artistic prodigy in terms of content. Right now, she's on the level of guys who airbrush t-shirts and license plates at the mall, or the average person who learned to oil paint by buying books from Bob Ross (god rest his hippie bones).
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Darth Wong wrote:There's no reason to assume she can't be picking certain kinds of compositions. She claims to be "inspired by God", which is another way of saying that she's going to have a preference for a certain bland milquetoast character in her work.

Christian art is like Christian music: it's just like the real thing, but with the individuality sucked out of it.
Do you mean modern Christian art like this girl is painting, or Christian art in general?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:There's no reason to assume she can't be picking certain kinds of compositions. She claims to be "inspired by God", which is another way of saying that she's going to have a preference for a certain bland milquetoast character in her work.

Christian art is like Christian music: it's just like the real thing, but with the individuality sucked out of it.
Do you mean modern Christian art like this girl is painting, or Christian art in general?
All of it, right back to Leonardo Da Vinci and all of the other Christian-themed paintings. The problem is the sheer monotony of content.

Imagine if someone made a form of entertainment called "strawberry art". All of the paintings are about strawberries. All of the songs are about strawberries. The melancholy work is about what happens if you don't have strawberries. The happy art is about the wonder of strawberries. The philosophical art is about the meaning of strawberries. There are poems about how sad your life was before strawberries. There are songs about how you were suicidal, but then you found strawberries and everything was good. They hold special art shows and concerts in which only strawberry-themes performers can attend. They have conferences and magazines and an entire parallel entertainment world built up around this. After a while, wouldn't you consider this genre to be more of an excuse for a lack of imagination than a legitimate type of art?
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Post by Turin »

Darth Wong wrote:There's no reason to assume she can't be picking certain kinds of compositions. She claims to be "inspired by God", which is another way of saying that she's going to have a preference for a certain bland milquetoast character in her work.
Fair enough.
Gil Hamilton wrote:Do you mean modern Christian art like this girl is painting, or Christian art in general?
DW can speak for himself, but generally I find that there's historically a difference between "religious art" and "art with religious themes." Plenty religiously-driven art has been made and a lot of it is crap. See the aforementioned tee-shirt artist (or dime store painter as I said earlier).

But you also have folks who created some incredible works that have religious themes... but the theme is clearly not what makes it an important work of art. Quick example: Michaelangelo's David could be a sculpture of anyone, really, but it's all the "artsy fartsy" stuff like composition and proportion that make it a great work of art. Hell, the only thing that tells us this sculpture is of the biblical David, rather than just a boy with a sling, is the background the audience brings to it. The patronage system for artists of that time dictate the subject matter, but the artists of that time had their own artistic agenda dictated by the evolving state-of-the-art.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Darth Wong wrote:All of it, right back to Leonardo Da Vinci and all of the other Christian-themed paintings. The problem is the sheer monotony of content.

Imagine if someone made a form of entertainment called "strawberry art". All of the paintings are about strawberries. All of the songs are about strawberries. The melancholy work is about what happens if you don't have strawberries. The happy art is about the wonder of strawberries. The philosophical art is about the meaning of strawberries. There are poems about how sad your life was before strawberries. There are songs about how you were suicidal, but then you found strawberries and everything was good. They hold special art shows and concerts in which only strawberry-themes performers can attend. They have conferences and magazines and an entire parallel entertainment world built up around this. After a while, wouldn't you consider this genre to be more of an excuse for a lack of imagination than a legitimate type of art?
I'd agree with the second paragraph about strawberries, but not all religious art and music is boring. I mean J.S. Bach sign practically all his works with "Glory to God Alone" and whether or not you like classical music, Bach's music certainly didn't lack in originality.

The Ecstasy of St. Therese by Bernini was a Christian themed scuplture, but it's absurdly well made and interesting. I mean, Bernini managed to make marble look like fabric (the detail on the statue is beyond amazing). Hell, the story around it is even kind of funny. The story of St. Therese is about a nun who was giving a divine revelation by an Angel, which was expressed as a "searing arrow" piercing her "heart", causing her great pain as it pierced her but tremendous pleasure in the form a "divine revelation" as well (translation from Catholicism: St. Therese was granted divine revelation in the form a hard fucking from an angel). Even though the statue (and the subject matter) is dripping in sexual symbolism, it's actually in the Vatican.

I'll definitely grant you that the Christian themed art that came out of the Renaissance and later periods are typically less interesting than the artists later work, but these guys were free thinkers. Christian themed art was how they paid the bills, because the people commissioning art at the time was often the Church. Alot of the masters did tons of different themes and tried to go back to pre-Christian Rome and Greece for how they made art and for artistic freedom. They were certainly not just "strawberries", as you put it.
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Post by Gil Hamilton »

Turin wrote:DW can speak for himself, but generally I find that there's historically a difference between "religious art" and "art with religious themes." Plenty religiously-driven art has been made and a lot of it is crap. See the aforementioned tee-shirt artist (or dime store painter as I said earlier).
That's kind of a fine distinction. I mentioned J.S. Bach in the post after yours, who wrote everything for God, but no one would call it crap. The problem is today that a lot of the people putting out overtly religious driven artwork typically think faith is a good enough substitute for talent, when it really isn't and tend to be pretty conformist rather than innovative individuals.
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Post by Turin »

Gil Hamilton wrote:
Turin wrote:DW can speak for himself, but generally I find that there's historically a difference between "religious art" and "art with religious themes."
That's kind of a fine distinction. I mentioned J.S. Bach in the post after yours, who wrote everything for God, but no one would call it crap.
I'll fully concede it's an awfully fine distinction, and probably not always accurate as evidenced by your example. But what I was trying to get at (and maybe utterly failing to do so) was that religiously-themed art that is good art isn't good because it's religiously themed, but because it stands on its own. If Bach didn't devote his works to God, do you think his works would be any less remarkable? Of course not. I don't think we're in disagreement here.
Gil Hamilton wrote:The problem is today that a lot of the people putting out overtly religious driven artwork typically think faith is a good enough substitute for talent, when it really isn't and tend to be pretty conformist rather than innovative individuals.
Yeah, well that's pretty much typical of what we come to know from the religious-supremacist set these days, isn't it? It's the same in art as it is in other fields -- you don't need education, or talent, or science, all you need is faith in the LAWRD!
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Post by D.Turtle »

Invictus ChiKen wrote: I've been told when she started she'd never even heard of Jesus and grew up in an Atheist household.
Absolute bullshit.
Looking through her site, it only says that the MOTHER was atheist.
Born underwater at home, on July 9, 1994, in Mount Morris, Illinois, to the atheistic stay-at-home Lithuanian homemaker mother, and an American father, chef and dietary manager.
So probably her father went to church, while her mother more likely was a doubting christian.
According to the site she:
Art Akiane site wrote:At 4, had a life-changing spiritual
transformation, bringing the family to God.
At 4 children probably have a life-changing event happen every week...
The life-changing spiritual transformation probably had something to do with sunday school and giving her life to Jesus (You have to start early!)
The inspiration for her art and literature comes from her visions, dreams, observations of people, nature and God.
How can you show that something was inspirated by God and not by dreams, observations, or nature?
Right, you can't (except her say so).
What is the difference between a vision and a dream?
Nothing, except her say so (or maybe that of her parents?
Page about her Prince of Peace painting wrote:I had been looking for a Jesus model for two years, and I could not find the right face. Then one day I asked my family to pray with me all day. We petitioned God to send the model right through our front door. The next day a tall carpenter came in.
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Turin wrote:I have no interest in gaining more insight into the mind of an emotionally abused child.
Okay I have to say. WTF!? Where do you get this from?

I plan to raise my children Roman Catholic. Does that mean I'll be emotionally abuseing them???
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Post by Covenant »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Turin wrote:I have no interest in gaining more insight into the mind of an emotionally abused child.
Okay I have to say. WTF!? Where do you get this from?

I plan to raise my children Roman Catholic. Does that mean I'll be emotionally abuseing them???
Probably the wierdass shit she's saying on the site. Either they're lying on her behalf to get her a lot of hype (which is quite likely) or she's lying or delusional on her own about where this shit comes from. Since it's obviously not directed by God, since it's not a factual picture of Jesus, (that or God is a liar too, and racist) I'd call all those scenarios emotionally abusive. I'd also consider girls of that age in a beauty pagent or a variety of child-star things emotionally abusive too, considering how it consumes their childhood and ruins them when they grow up fairly consistantly.

Besides, who is to say that telling a kid that there's a greased up slip-n-slide to Hell just waiting for them isn't abusive? Wouldn't it be abusive and wrong to tell kids they're going to hell for having blonde hair and white skin? What if this girl realizes she's gay? Now what? Really, deciding for a kid how they should be raised and what to teach them is dangerous, if the child's best interests are at heart. That's not to say anything about you, but these parents are not doing everything they can to make her well adjusted, and unless they show as firm commitment to her future wellbeing than they have to her publicity. Should she ever decide to convert to a different religion or abandon it altogether, I have no idea what that'd do to any shred of credability her "From God!" story would have.
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Post by Rye »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Turin wrote:I have no interest in gaining more insight into the mind of an emotionally abused child.
Okay I have to say. WTF!? Where do you get this from?

I plan to raise my children Roman Catholic. Does that mean I'll be emotionally abuseing them???
Depends, if you tell them they'll be punished by torture forever after they die if they don't believe, yeah, that's actual psychological abuse.

It seems pretty clear to me that the kid has been dictated what to paint; when I was that age, I drew what I wanted, which was the comparitively normal thing of cars, Ecto-1 and characters from the Dandy comic. I wouldn't ever expect intense spirituality and conventional modern religious imagery from a kid that wasn't artificially steered towards it.
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Post by Turin »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:
Turin wrote:I have no interest in gaining more insight into the mind of an emotionally abused child.
Okay I have to say. WTF!? Where do you get this from?

I plan to raise my children Roman Catholic. Does that mean I'll be emotionally abuseing them???
Although Covenant and Rye have chimed in and more or less agree with my intent, I made the statement so I suppose I'll defend it.

In this particular case, the child's entire mentality has been warped to slavish devotion to an invisible non-existent entity. She will most likely grow up being unable to develop an independent opinion on the subject without causing psychological problems. As she gets older, inevitably she'll be confronted with real-life situations which may potentially cause her faith to crack. If it does, she will have no other mechanism by which to deal with the world. I can't imagine the damage that will do to her.

More generally, yes, raising a child to be religious is dangerous to their well-being. Children deeply internalize what their parents teach them (one can easily imagine the genetic benefit of this characteristic). If what they're being taught is a bizarre absolutist mentality, rather than being taught to question their world and think for themselves, then they are being raised in a way which ill-equips them to deal with reality.

Combine lack of reasoning with a particular code of morally destructive ethics (such as Christianity's absurd belief in absolution of evil deeds through faith), and yes, you're abusing that child because you've damaged them mentally. Now, is this abuse as bad as regularly beating them? Maybe not. But, as Rye and Covenant have both pointed out, if you add in the even nastier aspects of Christianity (the hellfire and brimstone shit) and the child grows up really believing in it, then you may as well be beating the child for all the harm it will do to them.
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Post by Covenant »

I also think it's dangerous to make this girl into the "Painter of God" because now she's boxed into a situation where she can either continue to be the Painter of God, choose to ignore 'the gift of God' and stop painting some day or turn away from God and paint other things. It ties her faith and her industry together into one thing before she's been given a chance to choose for herself.

She'll need to live a lie or be faced with condemnation from possibly her parents and others, and open up her family to criticism (which they're probably able to be under now) because of a decision that should by any estimation be her right to make--what is she gonna do with her life?

Is she gonna have to change her name to stop being the "Painter Girl"? It seems terrifying to me. At some point she's probably going to realize that she's not given divine messages from God to paint pictures of Whitebread Jesus, and that's going to lead to some very hurtful looks inwards and at her parent's pushing of her. That sounds like classic abuse. And if she never does, and never questions, then she's likely going to end up as some crazyass Fundie. I think turning kids into a hate machine like that is also abusive.
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Post by Tolya »

I've got only one thing to say:

Fuck those douchebags.

Inspired by God? Yeah, sure. Inspired by ca$h? Definitely:
Akiane: Her Art, Her Poetry, Her Life is available in major book stores or here at the Akiane Gallery. $30.00 each. Includes Shipping and Autograph.

Whole Sale Case of 24: $288.00, includes shipping.
With Autographs $380.00.
Did Jesus charge his followers for his services too? Or is this something entirely new: capitalist christianity?
Has the same goal with each painting: to be inspiration for others and to be the gift to God.
Fuck yeah, especially if you can make good bucks off your "inspiration".

Like almost everything in religion, this is a fucking scam designed as a cash ripoff. Although I must say her paintings are amazing. And the whole "God" side is a neat marketing move and nothing more.

If she were truly inspired by God, the topic of cash wouldnt be even touched on that website. Can you imagine a deity coming down to a child, telling it to paint religious stuff and sell it for cold hard cash? Who the fuck is this God? Quentin Tarantino?
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Tolya wrote:Can you imagine a deity coming down to a child, telling it to paint religious stuff and sell it for cold hard cash? Who the fuck is this God?
MONEY.

Now we just need to speak that in broken English :lol: (from the Jackie Chan Movie "Armour of God" where the religious villains compare their superiority because they worship God. Jackie's character Asia Hawk then points out he follows a god as well, whose dictates he can't refuse and who he will do everything for. To which the villains ask who is this God (the conversation was in Cantonese), and then Jackie replies "Money" in broken English).
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

I have to admit you have a point... Being raised on a diet of fear of hell has given me many nightmares.

Once in the fourth grade after a very frightening experience it was almost a week before I even smiled again. Still have nightmares over it and worry about my girl friend going there for all time...
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Post by Magus »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:I have to admit you have a point... Being raised on a diet of fear of hell has given me many nightmares.

Once in the fourth grade after a very frightening experience it was almost a week before I even smiled again. Still have nightmares over it and worry about my girl friend going there for all time...
Strange...I've never had nightmares. I guess it's all in who you learn it from, and what their personal take on it is.
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Post by B5B7 »

We seem to have a big case of self-publicity here (by girl/parents).
eg "only known child binary genius" - if you do a search for term "binary genius" guess who comes up?
It is obvious what the term is meant to mean, but most children have several areas of talent. Also a binary genius could be a computer expert, I reckon.

I was curious about her name - apparently it is is Lithuanian/Russian - however, it is a male name; if female would be Akiana. Of course, it is typical for Americans to use male names for females.
If as claimed the name means ocean - must refer to the money they are hoping to make from her - not just buckets of money, but oceans. :lol:

I haven't looked at her poetry, so don't know how genius like it is [but can make a good guess], but as pointed out the art is lifeless.
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