Entire bridge crew should have died

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2002-12-23 03:53am

Remember that part of the space battle, where a torpedo scores a direct hit on the bridge, knocking a hole in the front? Everyone should have died at that moment. That torpedo should have vaporized them, or at the very least shredded them with shrapnel. As it was they lost a couple redshirts and got their hair messed up. How is it possible that a blast capable of breaching the hull didn't even scratch the soft tasty innards?

I discussed this scene with my sister after the show, and we made some other observations.

I thought that they should have moved to the battle bridge after the hull breach. She thought that they should have gone there when they called battle stations. On second thought, maybe they don't have a battle bridge anymore.

She was surprised that the viewscreen was actually that close to the surface. Apparently, she believed the bridge was set deeper into the hull than that. Having seen Year of Hell(Voyager), I was not at all surprised at the bridge's location.

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2002-12-23 04:03am

Keep in mind, as soon as the torpedo hit the viewscreen, the vacuum of space started sucking things out, so the shrapnel was sucked out into space before it would have hit anybody.

And if you notice, a lot of extras are wounded(or dead) after that, that's why Picard calls for Medical teams to the bridge.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-12-23 04:07am

As long as Nurse Ogawa survived, I'll be happy.

I'm still pissed about Data, though. But I would be furious if Ogawa died.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-23 05:09am

It might not have been a direct torp hit, but some of the energy that makes it through the shields or a shockwave from a hit that just barely missed.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-12-23 05:45am

I agree the entire bridge should have been vacated after being holed to space for that length of time. I do believe there was a similar incident with a bridge of rouphly the same size in the TNG series...

If they didn't get sucked out they should have died form suffocation and then exploded due to no atmospheric pressure...

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-23 02:53pm

FaxModem1 wrote:the shrapnel was sucked out into space before it would have hit anybody.

<ahem> That would require the application of a physics model which is--shall we say--at least slightly divergent with reality...

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-24 12:00am

FaxModem1 wrote:Keep in mind, as soon as the torpedo hit the viewscreen, the vacuum of space started sucking things out, so the shrapnel was sucked out into space before it would have hit anybody.

The vacuum of space does not suck. It's the atmoshpere of the cabin that blows. Your sentence should read "Keep in mind, as soon as the torpedo hit the viewscreem, the released atmosphere started to blow things out..."

Remember, science does not suck, it blows.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-24 12:15am

Oh yes, just to add:

When you undergo a rapid decompression like the one in ST:N, you have a very small time of useful conscience. For example, if you go from sea level pressure to 40,000ft worth of pressure, your time of useful conscience is less than three seconds. With a hole the size of a view screen and vacuum on the other side, there would have been no screaming, no reaction (at least among the humans). Everyone on the bridge would be a vegatable before they yell sheilds.

I have been in a rapid decompression while getting my altitude certification at Little Rock AFB. Let me tell you what happens. First you hear a noise, then almost immediately all the air in your lungs is forced out. If you had just taken a deep breath, it can hurt. Also, gasses in you digestive tract can also be forced out. Small air pockets in dental work can cause caps and other work to pop off your teeth. The air moves quick toward the lower pressure area, and the room gets very foggy. This all took about two seconds when I went through the training. We went from about a cabin altitude of 4,000ft to about 26,000ft in that much time. At that altitude, time of useful conscience is about 3 minutes. Soon after the decompression, we started to get symptoms of hypoxia, like loss of vision, loss of mental capability, weird feelings on our skin, etc. When we start to feel these symptons, we do what is called a gang load. We put our oxygen regulators to 100% O2 and positive pressure, and then put on our mask. The symptoms then go away quite quickly. Just a little real world FYI.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-24 12:22am

Remember, science does not suck, it blows.

Suck! Suck! Suck! Suck!

It's...it's transforming!

They've gone from Suck to Blow!

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-12-25 10:41pm

EmperorMing wrote:I agree the entire bridge should have been vacated after being holed to space for that length of time. I do believe there was a similar incident with a bridge of rouphly the same size in the TNG series...

If they didn't get sucked out they should have died form suffocation and then exploded due to no atmospheric pressure...

Why exactly would this occur on a starship with automated lifesupport systems and a huge volume of air to pump into the bridge. I do give the Federation enough credit that their engineers would build extra large fans into critical areas so that pressure could be maintained for long enough for emergency forcefields to be erected.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-12-25 10:49pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:Oh yes, just to add:

When you undergo a rapid decompression like the one in ST:N, you have a very small time of useful conscience. For example, if you go from sea level pressure to 40,000ft worth of pressure, your time of useful conscience is less than three seconds. With a hole the size of a view screen and vacuum on the other side, there would have been no screaming, no reaction (at least among the humans). Everyone on the bridge would be a vegatable before they yell sheilds.

I have been in a rapid decompression while getting my altitude certification at Little Rock AFB. Let me tell you what happens. First you hear a noise, then almost immediately all the air in your lungs is forced out. If you had just taken a deep breath, it can hurt. Also, gasses in you digestive tract can also be forced out. Small air pockets in dental work can cause caps and other work to pop off your teeth. The air moves quick toward the lower pressure area, and the room gets very foggy. This all took about two seconds when I went through the training. We went from about a cabin altitude of 4,000ft to about 26,000ft in that much time. At that altitude, time of useful conscience is about 3 minutes. Soon after the decompression, we started to get symptoms of hypoxia, like loss of vision, loss of mental capability, weird feelings on our skin, etc. When we start to feel these symptons, we do what is called a gang load. We put our oxygen regulators to 100% O2 and positive pressure, and then put on our mask. The symptoms then go away quite quickly. Just a little real world FYI.

Yes, but my understanding is that this loss of useful conscious time is due to the fact that you can't breathe to take in enough oxygen. Thus, no matter what the pressure I think that someone would at least have 10-odd seconds of conscious time.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2002-12-25 11:02pm

Who cares about them not getting air, the absence of an atmosphere should've caused them to all explode... I have to admit that force field was a good idea, but it probably would've helped if it was activated earlier.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2002-12-25 11:46pm

They would have survived at least as long as they did in the movie. They'd be mighty uncomfortable, mind...

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2002-12-27 02:12pm

Also, gasses in you digestive tract can also be forced out. Small air pockets in dental work can cause caps and other work to pop off your teeth.

Ive seen some Navy types doing similar training. They tried to play patty cake on other games while suffering from hypoxia and they couldnt even do it. Some of the pilots became giddy and disoriented.

Anywhoo, back to the dental work. That would fucking suck. I have a large crown and a couple of big fillings. I would be so pissed if they popped off.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-12-27 02:26pm

Howedar wrote:Yes, but my understanding is that this loss of useful conscious time is due to the fact that you can't breathe to take in enough oxygen. Thus, no matter what the pressure I think that someone would at least have 10-odd seconds of conscious time.

No, I guess that misconseption must be common. When you decompress like that, gases like 02 and N2 start leaving your blood stream. That is why time of useful conscience is so short. You're still alive after the decompression, but you are of no use.

GREAHSIAM · Post by **GREAHSIAM** » 2002-12-30 09:06am

As I recall, a crewmember was blown-out the bridge hull breach.
(must have been a security guard, eh?)

CNS Sarajevo · Post by **CNS Sarajevo** » 2002-12-30 04:19pm

Did anybody else notice that if they had seat belts nobody on the bridge would've died? Or at least the restraints like Kirk had in ST:TMP?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-12-30 04:28pm

CNS Sarajevo wrote:Did anybody else notice that if they had seat belts nobody on the bridge would've died? Or at least the restraints like Kirk had in ST:TMP?

It has been commented on numerous times.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-12-31 03:45am

Graeme Dice wrote:
EmperorMing wrote:I agree the entire bridge should have been vacated after being holed to space for that length of time. I do believe there was a similar incident with a bridge of rouphly the same size in the TNG series...

If they didn't get sucked out they should have died form suffocation and then exploded due to no atmospheric pressure...
Why exactly would this occur on a starship with automated lifesupport systems and a huge volume of air to pump into the bridge. I do give the Federation enough credit that their engineers would build extra large fans into critical areas so that pressure could be maintained for long enough for emergency forcefields to be erected.

The forcefields took too long to come on...Unless it was battle damage and power loss that prevented them from doing so.

Life support and the fan issue: As far as I know, we have no evidence that this type of setup exists; and with the way that Trek engineering goes from past examples, who would want to bet that such a thing would exist?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-02 03:23pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:You're still alive after the decompression, but you are of no use.

Ah, that explains why they were able to function normally after the decompression.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2003-01-06 06:34pm

More info on explosive decompression. It's estimated that, if rapidly exposed to a vacuum, you'd have 10-15 seconds of "useful consciousness".

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-01-10 03:50am

On a related note, here's the info on human body exposed to vaccuum:

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_a ... 70603.html

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2003-01-11 01:46am

EmperorMing wrote:Life support and the fan issue: As far as I know, we have no evidence that this type of setup exists; and with the way that Trek engineering goes from past examples, who would want to bet that such a thing would exist?

Such a thing must exist, or the air would have finished blowing out long before it did in the movie.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-01-11 10:57am

Just a little information. In a DS9 episode the Defiant has a hull breech and a forcefield comes up instantly. Voyager also had multiple hull breeches and even one on the bridge when it was rammed by another ship. Janeway was thrown about but never got sucked out of the ship, rather she got back into her chair and looked out the bull breech. When the Enterprise intially had hull breeches elsewhere then the bridge they announced that forcefields were up, and this was in far quiker time then the bridge forcefield came up. After more combat we see the Bridge finally hit. The indication is that battle damage slowed things down.