More Proof Karen Traviss is a hack.

[Darth Fanboy]

The sad part is that the story wasn't even all that bad, at least for Traviss.

I'm not saying you are doing this NI, but we shouldn't have to feel the need to defend or support a book of our beloved franchise by saying it isn't "all that bad". It should be GOOD!

But Star Wars fans including myself are conditioned to buy anything with the SW logo emblazoned on it. I was guilty of this myself with the NJO and Dark Nest and i'm not going to let it happen again. Unfortunately there are too many fans who think they have to be completists and buy every EU novel, comic, and moist towlette wrapper on the market.

Meanwhile, Timothy Zahn writes an amazing book and it hardly gets half the attention that Travissty gets. I've been a Zahn critic in the past but I was really impressed with his new book (probably because he didn't have to use some variation of Thrawn!).

[Surlethe]

I heard that the original idea was that the lightsabers really were just common energy swords, and it took no inherent or genetic specialness to use them-- you trained on them just like masses of sword-wielding fighters did back in the Medieval era.

This is true, even in-universe (see, e.g., Han slicing open the Tauntaun on Hoth). However, to adequately control a lightsabre must require years of training unless one is force-sensitive (Luke's training was considerably accelerated, as I recall): the massless blade will not respond to intuitive notions acquired through swinging massed blades. And, of course, to actually be useful requires precognition on the part of the wielder.

[Stark]

But Star Wars fans including myself are conditioned to buy anything with the SW logo emblazoned on it. I was guilty of this myself with the NJO and Dark Nest and i'm not going to let it happen again. Unfortunately there are too many fans who think they have to be completists and buy every EU novel, comic, and moist towlette wrapper on the market.

At least you can admit it's all your fault. Most people can't, and fans like myself who can look critically at these things are hardly common or popular.

It's what you get when you identify too closely with a fandom? Use the invisible hand, vote with your wallets, throw off your shackles, etc etc... all impossible if you're hopeless Brand Addicts who need a fix.

[Noble Ire]

This does raise an question: why exactly is it that the EU seems to gravitate towards authors who are either unprofessional and willfully ignornant of the continuity, or are downright incompetant? This phenomenon is hardly a new one; just as we have hacks like Kaufman and Traviss now, figures like KJA and Vonda McIntyre have plagued fans of the universe in years past. Certainly, LFL does occasionally hire authors, like Zahn and Stover, who are actually quite talented in their own right (and then there are some of those employed to write for the tech books, games, etc.), but they are relatively few and far between; the vast majority, judging purely on the quality of their writing and characterization, are middling at best.

Is it purely a matter of finance, finding authors who will work for lower commissions? Are more established and talented SciFi authors generally reluctant to delve into someone else's universe? Is Lucas unwilling to place his epic in the hands of someone who might effectively guide it "away from his vision"?

[Balrog]

Is it purely a matter of finance, finding authors who will work for lower commissions? Are more established and talented SciFi authors generally reluctant to delve into someone else's universe? Is Lucas unwilling to place his epic in the hands of someone who might effectively guide it "away from his vision"?

The first two IMO explain it; in a way, it's not much more then fanfiction (except you get paid and it's official) and look at how many of those suck.

[Batman]

That's about it I'm afraid. People apparently buy it as long as it's labeled Star Wars no matter what (Darth Fanboy commented on that further up I think), so why bother wasting money on quality writers? And since maintaining the integrity of the universe doesn't seem to affect income one way or the other, why bother to enforce it?

[Darth Servo]

Doesn't proper lightsaber combat skill take years of training by Jedi from an early age regardless? And several hundred hours of it? Even more to add to the stupidity, where is Vader going to find the time to actually train all of these troopers when he has other duties to attend to?

She grosetesquely underestimated the number of clones and now wants to blow the number of Sith all out of proportion. Maybe she's trying to balance things out but more likely this is just more wanking.

[Adrian Laguna]

I gave up on the Star Wars EU even before the Traviss shit. There's a grand total of four books and two comics I might buy some day. Anything else can burn for all I care. I've been reading Warhammer 40k instead. It's incredibly refreshing to see a universe where the authors understand that they're dealing with a galaxy of staggering size and the same six people don't save the world over and over again. Oh sure, W40k has its silly stuff too, but I find the sum of its part to be much better than the SW EU.

[Ritterin Sophia]

This does raise an question: why exactly is it that the EU seems to gravitate towards authors who are either unprofessional and willfully ignornant of the continuity, or are downright incompetant?

I would like to add that it's not only authors but Game Designers (EaW FoC) and RPG Editors (Sarli) as well.

[Darth Fanboy]

At least you can admit it's all your fault. Most people can't, and fans like myself who can look critically at these things are hardly common or popular.

When I started buying the books, the Zahn trilogy was good. The Wraith Squadron series was good. so when I went to buy books that I didn't know much about, there was a good reputation with the brand from the other material. Unfortunately that no longer exists.

[Jim Raynor]

This does raise an question: why exactly is it that the EU seems to gravitate towards authors who are either unprofessional and willfully ignornant of the continuity, or are downright incompetant? This phenomenon is hardly a new one; just as we have hacks like Kaufman and Traviss now, figures like KJA and Vonda McIntyre have plagued fans of the universe in years past. Certainly, LFL does occasionally hire authors, like Zahn and Stover, who are actually quite talented in their own right (and then there are some of those employed to write for the tech books, games, etc.), but they are relatively few and far between; the vast majority, judging purely on the quality of their writing and characterization, are middling at best.

Is it purely a matter of finance, finding authors who will work for lower commissions? Are more established and talented SciFi authors generally reluctant to delve into someone else's universe? Is Lucas unwilling to place his epic in the hands of someone who might effectively guide it "away from his vision"?

I think Sturgeon's Law holds true: 90% of everything is shit. It's a lot harder to be good at something than it is to be mediocre or lousy. When you're talking about not only the cliche-ridden science fiction genre, but commercially-driven licensed spinoff material, you have conditions that all but guarantee shitty writing.

Big brand-name tie ins just don't give artists the credibility or prestige that many of them seek. Well-regarded authors who made his/her name off of their own original work will probably be reluctant about writing the next kidde fanboy-oriented SW book.

I doubt Lucas is the one who picks these crappy writers. He makes money off the EU, but he doesn't even read it. The job of managing the EU has been delegated to his myriad employees.

However, I think the organizational culture at LFL does allow this shit to pollute the EU. They have quality and continuity checks, but as anyone who has followed these debates has seen, they're not that great. The average person is not technically knowledgable, and that holds true for LFL employees. They'll allow crap like "3 million uber clones" into the canon because they don't know any better themselves, and don't ever even give it a second thought.

[Darth Wong]

How much money do the novels make, anyway? I don't get the impression that they're anything more than supplemental income for the LFL marketing machine, and that's why "the powers that be" don't pay too much attention to quality control.

Honestly, if the marketing moguls are willing to okay a ridiculous hyper-muscular new Luke Skywalker toy which comes with a flaming bazooka and has nothing to do with the original film character at all, why wouldn't they give the thumbs-up to badly written novels?

[Elfdart]

The cost of churning out trade paperbacks (as opposed to quality paperbacks) is tiny. That's why bookstores tear off the covers and throw the rest in the dumpster when shelf life has reached its limits. They cost zilch to print and at six to eight bucks apiece, they offer quick profit for little risk. The whole point of dime novels is quick profit and low cost.

Now you'll notice that the hardbacks are mostly written by authors like Terry Brooks, Matthew Stover, R.A. Salvatore and Tim Zahn -all of whom were successful outside of Star Wars. Say what you will about their writing styles, but they can do just fine without doing Star Wars novels, and have. The other hardbacks (the DK series, ICS, etc) also have a degree of quality control since those large books with cloth covers and glossy pictures cost so much more to produce.

Now take a look at who's writing the paperbacks.

The only exception is among gaming materials, since gamers have always preferred cloth to paper since the books are used regularly, as opposed to being read. It's purely a matter of durability.

So why should Lucasfilm give a damn about what a lame dime novelist puts in a paperback that is most likely going to go in a dumpster?

[Darth Fanboy]

So why should Lucasfilm give a damn about what a lame dime novelist puts in a paperback that is most likely going to go in a dumpster?

Perfect World: Because of those lame dime novels, i'm now less likely to buy their hardbacks. Consider that any hardbacks in the Legacy series that I might have purchased will now stay in the stores because the affiliated paperbacks are crap.

Real World: No reason whatsoever.

[Aratech]

.... ....

I think I've officially seen it all.

I can't understand it... I just can't. Traviss, from the two books of hers that I've read, actually seems to have talent, and the makings of a good author. Then she nose dives into the ground with a silly (albeit rather extraordinary) numbers screw up (seriously 3,000,000 troopers grand total? For a conflict spanning millions of worlds? What was she thinking?) and then instead of swallowing her pride and admitting she made a mistake, and then attempting to correct that error, she goes further off the deep end and attempts to drag the whole of Star Wars down with her. What the hell is the matter with her?

Seriously, this is more proof we need to get someone in to fix up the EU continuity.

As for this tripe... well.

[Jim Raynor]

Seriously, this is more proof we need to get someone in to fix up the EU continuity.

The problem is that LFL seems to have an "all inclusive" view of continuity, and is reluctant to throw anything out. Even the DUMBEST thing gets shoehorned into canon. That Star Tours ride at Disney World was fun, but how many of you seriously believe that the Empire made a Death Star III that had the same weakness as the first one?

If LFL ever set out trying to fix the universe-destroying Odds, they would make an awkward retcon about ARC troopers actually going out on those stupid missions, only with the clones in that story being overly paranoid, or something.

[Stofsk]

The sad part is that the story wasn't even all that bad, at least for Traviss.

I'm not saying you are doing this NI, but we shouldn't have to feel the need to defend or support a book of our beloved franchise by saying it isn't "all that bad". It should be GOOD!

But Star Wars fans including myself are conditioned to buy anything with the SW logo emblazoned on it. I was guilty of this myself with the NJO and Dark Nest and i'm not going to let it happen again. Unfortunately there are too many fans who think they have to be completists and buy every EU novel, comic, and moist towlette wrapper on the market.

I have to say that if it was a toss-up between a EU novel or a comic, I'll take the comic. At least the artwork would be good, Dark Horse quality, and even if the writing sucks there's less of it to read compared to an EU novel.

Meanwhile, Timothy Zahn writes an amazing book and it hardly gets half the attention that Travissty gets. I've been a Zahn critic in the past but I was really impressed with his new book (probably because he didn't have to use some variation of Thrawn!).

wat - didn't i tell you sharing is caring

don't make me lodge a formal complaint full of harsh words

words with letters and shit

Translation: what is this new Zahn novel like?

[000]

I'm curious, too. From what I've heard, Allegiance is so boring it's not even worth complaining about.

[Darth Fanboy]

Translation: what is this new Zahn novel like?

Squad of stormtroopers decides to desert after one of them kills an ISB officer (they all want to leave anyway after participating in an Imperial massacre of civilians). At the same time Luke/Han/Chewie are tracking down a Pirate Gang threatening Rebel Convoys, Leia is negotiating between Rebel Factions about the possible defection of an Imperial Official and the territory in his control, and Mara Jade is investigating some large cash transactions by a wealthy Imperial Citizen who may or may not be funding treason. (identity of said citizen is a spoiler).

I thought it was a great book, the stormtroopers were well written and Mara Jade is nearly killed by Vader after she pisses him off. The way the plot threads come together is nicely done, the new characters are fun to follow and the old characters are written for quite well. Zahn does a good job of writing for Han Solo in particular IMHO.

Addendum:

I have to say that if it was a toss-up between a EU novel or a comic, I'll take the comic. At least the artwork would be good, Dark Horse quality, and even if the writing sucks there's less of it to read compared to an EU novel.

I enjoyed the Clone Wars comics, even the parts with Quinlan Vos, enough that I bought all nine volumes. The sole positive of Quinlan's storylines is that even though he is masturbatory fanwank and his character concept is reatarded, his storylines have very little effect on the main plot as a whole. The Pre- Endor EU has actually improved in my opinion and is quite entertaining. For whatever reason anything that takes place after RoTJ is when the quality tanks and I have no idea why.

Addendum 2:
Thanks to Coalition for catching my fuckup.

[Stofsk]

Translation: what is this new Zahn novel like?

good

Zahn is top shit. I might just get this book.

(I still haven't gotten Survivor's Quest and Outbound Flight lol)

I have to say that if it was a toss-up between a EU novel or a comic, I'll take the comic. At least the artwork would be good, Dark Horse quality, and even if the writing sucks there's less of it to read compared to an EU novel.

I enjoyed the Clone Wars comics, even the parts with Quinlan Vos, enough that I bought all eight volumes. The sole positive of Quinlan's storylines is that even though he is masturbatory fanwank and his character concept is reatarded, his storylines have very little effect on the main plot as a whole. The Pre- Endor EU has actually improved in my opinion and is quite entertaining. For whatever reason anything that takes place after RoTJ is when the quality tanks and I have no idea why.

I have the first four Clone Wars anthologies. I recently purchased the Knights of the Old Republic anthology, the ones based on the game (rather than the older Tales of the Jedi: Knights of the Old Republic series, which the games were based on - I have those ones already) and I thought the artwork was very lovely - the writing was a bit meh at parts, though the story is just getting started so we'll see where it goes.

I picked up the first two issues of Legacy, and the story doesn't grab me as much. That said, I don't have a vitriolic reaction to it like some other's have had (and I like the artwork, both that done by Jan Dureesma and the covers by good ol' Adam Hughes).

[Darth Fanboy]

(I still haven't gotten Survivor's Quest and Outbound Flight lol)

It's a bit of a conundrum. I liked Outbound Flight and Didn't like Survivor's Quest as much, however part of it has to do with the fact that I read OF first and since SQ came out first it was written with that idea that nobody had read OF.

[Lonestar]

It's a bit of a conundrum. I liked Outbound Flight and Didn't like Survivor's Quest as much, however part of it has to do with the fact that I read OF first and since SQ came out first it was written with that idea that nobody had read OF.

SQ is, by far, the weakest of Zahn's SW books IMO. I haven't picked up his new one(didn't even know it was out) but I think I will today (I expect to be done with the Space Wolf Omnibus by the end of the weekend, and I'll need some more book-reading).

[FTeik]

My "addiction" to the EU has changed, too. I was introduced to it by Zahn's and Daley's trilogies and bought most of the books then. At the same time I couldn't stand the comics (Sith like Naga Sadow and his minions wearing sandals and being armed with spears? WTF). Today I don't care about most of the books, but some of the comics have become favourites.

[Kurgan]

Stormtroopers with lightsabers ? Are they joking ? I mean I have seen sarcastic Jedi Academy modders humour the player community with force using Stormtrooper mods. What the hell is happening to SW writters when they are turning a god damn joke into a serious novel.

I guess you missed the fact that the predecessor to Jedi Academy, Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast featured lightsaber wielding troopers (Shadowtroopers) as the central plot!

Stormtroopers have been playable Jedi characters in the JK series since Dark Forces II, way back in 1997.

Like it or not, force powered Stormtroopers (or Jedi in armor, if you prefer) wielding lightsabers are C-canon.

I know everyone hates the idea because it smacks of wank (and it is, even if it wasn't back in the early script draft days), but still.

I know all about Traviss's (deserved) bad rep, but still.

If anything, the major pain caused by this kind of wank is due in large part to the huge wankage of sabers and Jedi. Back in the old days (the Splinter of the Mind's Eye and Empire Strikes Back days), anybody could use a lightsaber, not just people with enough midichlorians in their blood!

I dont get the obsession with force users in imperial era.

In the games it makes perfect sense. People want to play as Jedi or Sith and fight the opposite. So the game developers provide. Not just modders, but the official development teams do this.

That's cool. This stuff enters canon and so it gets written in. Kyle Katarn is a canon character, as are the Seven Dark Jedi and basically all the new Jedi characters they can think of that originated in video games.

Before the "Rule of Two" and all the retcons about Jedi training from the prequels, there really wasn't any reason to rule out the possibility of other force users being around in the galaxy, either hidden, or being secretly trained for some future project or whatnot. It's a big galaxy. Presumably though, none of them were powerful enough at the time of the classic trilogy to be worth mentioning. But that's the problem you get from an evolving fantasy universe...

Original triology is supposed to be an epic face off between the last of the jedi and the sith. Two Jedi and two Sith are all that is left of their ancient orders to continue their milenea old conflict. Adding other non related Jedi to that messes up such a beautifuly crafted plot. If writters want massive Jedi versus Sith war they take look at the KOTOR era. I like the idea of full blown war between the sith and jedi and thanks to KOTOR we have that. There is no need to shit on original triolog for it.

Granted. But let's face it, this isn't Traviss's fault, she's just contributing to an (in)famous tradition started by the EU at least a decade ago.

PS: Luke seems able to handle a lightsaber fairly well for having zero training with one prior! Plus, even Episode II gives us little children using them...

[General Brock]

I heard that the original idea was that the lightsabers really were just common energy swords, and it took no inherent or genetic specialness to use them-- you trained on them just like masses of sword-wielding fighters did back in the Medieval era.

Lucas's original idea, IIRC, was that on a spaceship, a blaster would be too dangerous, risking rupturing the hull, so inter-ship boarding parties would eschew blasters and use melee weapons-- in this case, ordinary swords that happened to be laser.

I don't know why he discarded the idea, although I'm sorta glad he did...

Probably filming and FX-ing just one lightsaber duel was a time and budget-breaker using late 1970s tech. A&E did a documentary on Star Wars and apparently Lucas was developing stress-related heart problems over the time and money involved.