Need help with Darkstar's follower!

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-02-07 07:44pm

Darth Servo wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:It's a fact that there's at least one other bridge on the Executor- I rembember seeing it in the ICS.
By all means, post it

They only have a regular SD in there... but I swear I read it somewhere.

Ryushikaze · Post by **Ryushikaze** » 2007-02-08 06:01pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:The only reason the Executor went down was because it was too close to the DS2 for the secondary bridge(s?) to maneuver away when it began to stray off-course.

It's a fact that there's at least one other bridge on the Executor- I rembember seeing it in the ICS.

It's not the ICS, but I recall it too.
Saxton mentions that the Lusankya had a backup bridge, and presumed that, being the same class of ship, and mistaken for Executor by its builders, thate Executor would have one as well, and I'm rather certain this information made its way into the canon somehow.

Aquatain · Post by **Aquatain** » 2007-02-08 06:29pm

I have spend nine years sailing on a 44 meters long minesweeper and we had no less than five different places from where we could control the ship (6 in fact if you counted engineering) - it shouldn't even be a question if the SSD's had backup Bridges, you might as well question if they had toilets it's that elementary, control over your own vessel is paramount for any kind of ship in space or on the seas.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2007-02-08 07:11pm

Maybe Trekkies assume that no one has back up bridges because they don't like being pointed out to them that their pride and joy, TNG not TOS, does not have a similar feature and to boot the backup can't override the bridge if it has to.

In the Episode, brothers, they are at the engineering panel in engineering and they can only force a saucer seperation! This is unexcusable. I bet if the realized the bridge was taken over on a Nimitz class carrier the CIC could flip a switch to take control from the bridge and the bridge could do nothing about it.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-02-08 07:15pm

Isolder74 wrote:Maybe Trekkies assume that no one has back up bridges because they don't like being pointed out to them that their pride and joy, TNG not TOS, does not have a similar feature and to boot the backup can't override the bridge if it has to.

I doubt it. Many trekkies seem to take pride in the fact that the Federation overcentralizes everything. In fact, they use it as proof of superior computer tech.

A GCS does have the battle bridge though, even though its rarely ever occupied and the only known way into it seems to be from the main bridge.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 07:23pm

Darth Servo wrote:
A GCS does have the battle bridge though, even though its rarely ever occupied and the only known way into it seems to be from the main bridge.

I seem to recall in the episode with the klingon renegades when Worf was showing them around the ship, Picard asked for their location and Yar reported them near the entrance to the Battle Bridge.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 07:32pm

Ah here it is:

Heart of Glory wrote:

PICARD
(to Tasha)
Where are they now?

Tasha checks her console.

TASHA
They are with Worf on Deck
Seventeen.

PICARD
Deck Seventeen?

STAR TREK: "Heart Of Glory" - 1/13/88 - ACT THREE 37.

80 CONTINUED: (2)

TASHA
Yes, sir -- next to the auxiliary
turbolift to the Battle Bridge.
Shall I alert Lieutenant Worf?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-02-08 07:35pm

That was always wierd. What were they supposed to be able to do from there? The main bridge is fully manned! Did they think they could force a disconnect and destroy the saucer without the main bridge or engineering stopping them?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 07:42pm

Stark wrote:That was always wierd. What were they supposed to be able to do from there? The main bridge is fully manned! Did they think they could force a disconnect and destroy the saucer without the main bridge or engineering stopping them?

Frankly I think it's pretty clear that the two didn't have much of a plan going. Even if they convinced Worf to come over with them it'd still be three against a thousand.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-02-08 07:44pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Frankly I think it's pretty clear that the two didn't have much of a plan going. Even if they convinced Worf to come over with them it'd still be three against a thousand.

Ah, but these are might Klingon warriors. Who cares about odds?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 07:51pm

Darth Servo wrote: Ah, but these are might Klingon warriors. Who cares about odds?

Yes but if they wanted to take the ship to have glorious battles (something they expressed in the episode) you still have to have a reasonable chance for success.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-02-08 07:54pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:Frankly I think it's pretty clear that the two didn't have much of a plan going. Even if they convinced Worf to come over with them it'd still be three against a thousand.

Oh true, and they could have simply been concerned that 'civilians' were near sensitive areas of the ship, but the scene was played for 'zomg not the Battle Bridge' effect if I recall. Maybe they would have spraypainted Klingon slogans in there.

Worf may also have been able to help them with clearance etc if they tried to seize control of the ship.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 07:58pm

Stark wrote:
Oh true, and they could have simply been concerned that 'civilians' were near sensitive areas of the ship, but the scene was played for 'zomg not the Battle Bridge' effect if I recall. Maybe they would have spraypainted Klingon slogans in there.

Worf may also have been able to help them with clearance etc if they tried to seize control of the ship.

You'd think they'd need Worf's security codes to gain any access to the battle bridges computers. But you'd also think that his codes could be overridden by the Captains. Of course the way they played this up you got the impression that the battle bridge would have given them instant control over the ship, a feature convienantly forgotten when Data hijacked the ship.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-02-08 08:01pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:You'd think they'd need Worf's security codes to gain any access to the battle bridges computers.

Yes, you'd think that yet we've repeatedly seen computer security systems repeatedly hacked in minutes on the show.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-02-08 08:04pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:You'd think they'd need Worf's security codes to gain any access to the battle bridges computers. But you'd also think that his codes could be overridden by the Captains. Of course the way they played this up you got the impression that the battle bridge would have given them instant control over the ship, a feature convienantly forgotten when Data hijacked the ship.

Given that Worf could fuck with Enterprise sensors when on another ship (and the Captain didn't even notice or get alerted) maybe he could help them conceal their activities. Once the ship is separated - which takes several minutes if I recall - the saucer and everyone on it is dead meat.

Actually, security-wise, wouldn't it make sense for the separation sequence to require a significant combination of clearance, like scuttling? It should be pretty easy for the engineer or someone to override all the huge motors and stuff required.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2007-02-08 08:07pm

We're talking about a computer system that will download and EXECUTE unknown code that will do Valen knows what without so much as even going Microsoft and ask 'Are you sure you're sure you're sure'.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-02-08 08:09pm

I guess that's true, and it's not like you can't just fake the voiceprints anyway. All Worf'd have to do is go to Laforge and say 'hey, if I wanted to confirm saucer separation what would I do' and he'd say 'Confirm saucer separation wat lol'.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-08 08:13pm

Stark wrote: Given that Worf could fuck with Enterprise sensors when on another ship (and the Captain didn't even notice or get alerted) maybe he could help them conceal their activities. Once the ship is separated - which takes several minutes if I recall - the saucer and everyone on it is dead meat.

Both true.

Actually, security-wise, wouldn't it make sense for the separation sequence to require a significant combination of clearance, like scuttling? It should be pretty easy for the engineer or someone to override all the huge motors and stuff required.

You would think that you'd need either the Captain and the XO's confirmation or two senior officers to go through with it. I don't recall how they did it. It should be simple for engineering or someone positioned at the actual clamp locations to manually overide the sequence.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2007-02-09 10:09am

The Enterprise-D has no single point that can override the others; that evident every time you get a "dueling panels" scene going, like Data and Roga Danar fighting for control of the transporters from the bridge and engineering, respectively. You can apparently do anything from any console on the ship if you know how, and you have the computer credentials.

Of course, credentials only mean so much on the Enterprise. Their computer security model seems to be "Allow anyone to do anything and just log it, unless specifically ordered to refuse access."

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-02-09 11:23am

Ted C wrote:The Enterprise-D has no single point that can override the others; that evident every time you get a "dueling panels" scene going, like Data and Roga Danar fighting for control of the transporters from the bridge and engineering, respectively. You can apparently do anything from any console on the ship if you know how, and you have the computer credentials.

Of course, credentials only mean so much on the Enterprise. Their computer security model seems to be "Allow anyone to do anything and just log it, unless specifically ordered to refuse access."

Didn't the writers pretty much state once that you could theoretically fly the Enterprise using a PADD if so inclined? Not precisely canon, but seeing how apparently easy it is to bypass security on the Enterprise. . .

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2007-02-09 11:27am

General Zod wrote:
Didn't the writers pretty much state once that you could theoretically fly the Enterprise using a PADD if so inclined? Not precisely canon, but seeing how apparently easy it is to bypass security on the Enterprise. . .

I believe there's a line in the tech manual about it.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2007-02-09 11:40am

Cpl Kendall wrote:
General Zod wrote:
Didn't the writers pretty much state once that you could theoretically fly the Enterprise using a PADD if so inclined? Not precisely canon, but seeing how apparently easy it is to bypass security on the Enterprise. . .
I believe there's a line in the tech manual about it.

That's where I was getting it from, but it's non canon of course. But from what we've seen in the series it wouldn't be surprising if somebody actually could do it.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2007-02-09 03:46pm

General Zod wrote:
Cpl Kendall wrote:
General Zod wrote:
Didn't the writers pretty much state once that you could theoretically fly the Enterprise using a PADD if so inclined? Not precisely canon, but seeing how apparently easy it is to bypass security on the Enterprise. . .
I believe there's a line in the tech manual about it.
That's where I was getting it from, but it's non canon of course. But from what we've seen in the series it wouldn't be surprising if somebody actually could do it.

It does prove once again that the writers are morons though. IF one person could fly it himself, they wouldn't have a CREW. Besides, Scotty's jury rigged E-nil in ST3 didn't exactly do very well.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2007-02-12 04:18pm

Of course they take that oppsie and it brain bugged into a tap disabling the mighty E-D in TNG.

I think that no one should be able to take over the ship without the copliance of the crew.

That brings up the 6 Ferengi that manage to take over the E-D and assume they can fly it off with the crew beamed to the surface to be slave labor.

General Trelane (Retired) · Post by **General Trelane (Retired)** » 2007-02-13 02:39pm

What, people expect higher security measures and confirmation of drastic actions??? But that would slow down the computer, and at Star Fleet, we take pride in our high-speed, centralized computing!!! Having the computer require confirmation every single time that a ship separation or self destruct is ordered would be so very, very, ah, inconvenient.