Rebels find the Federation first.

[General Zod]

I reiterate my question-the Rebels, especially those in the AQ, would have access to those why?

Sorry your question was ambiguous, I thought you were asking why the raw materials would be otherwise more useful.

As to why they'd have access to to rapid fabrication technology, I didn't think it was that rare considering it's use to build cities.

We use giant boom cranes to build cities in real life, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to get ahold of them. I'd imagine the same would apply to SW for any complicated industrial technology. Since it's not like you'll see cities springing up just overnight.

[drachefly]

This does raise one of the peculiar questions that has always bugged me:

Why would the rebels screw around with a base like Hoth if they also had the system of the Mon Calamari? Which was fortified so powerfully that the imperial fleet couldn't just concentrate up and wipe it out?

Or did the MC's come on board only after Hoth? I remember a source from WEG (i.e. suspect) that hinted that they came on before or concurrently with the Hoth base's existence.

I get the feeling that until we can answer that question (and maybe you can, easily; but I can't), we won't be able to answer what they'd do with a whole other galaxy.

[PayBack]

We use giant boom cranes to build cities in real life, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to get ahold of them. I'd imagine the same would apply to SW for any complicated industrial technology. Since it's not like you'll see cities springing up just overnight.

If a RL rebellion could get hold of ships, jet fighters and artillery, I suspect a large crane or three wouldn't be that difficult.

[General Zod]

We use giant boom cranes to build cities in real life, but that doesn't mean that it's easy to get ahold of them. I'd imagine the same would apply to SW for any complicated industrial technology. Since it's not like you'll see cities springing up just overnight.

If a RL rebellion could get hold of ships, jet fighters and artillery, I suspect a large crane or three wouldn't be that difficult.

Erm, no. Take into consideration the scale here. If these devices used to build cities can be analogous to a boom crane, then the difficulty to get ahold of them can be proportionate for the respective civilizations. Especially if these devices are tightly regulated and limited in numbers.

[PayBack]

Yes, especially IF these devices are tightly regulated and limited in numbers.

Are they? The whole point was their availability is an unknown. As to their scale as I don't believe they're restricted to building cities.

[General Zod]

Yes, especially IF these devices are tightly regulated and limited in numbers.

Are they? The whole point was their availability is an unknown. As to their scale as I don't believe they're restricted to building cities.

Until we have more information on their availability, there's no reason to assume they are commonly available, thus the burden lies on you to prove such. Otherwise, I don't see any reason why they should get to use it.

[PayBack]

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me as I was asking about their ability and availability in the first place. I'm not pushing any particular barrow and the fact I can't see why the technology would be rare is not the same as asking you to assume it isn't. It seems to me a lot of people here see everything as confontational to the point where you can't think out loud.

[General Zod]

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me as I was asking about their ability and availability in the first place. I'm not pushing any particular barrow and the fact I can't see why the technology would be rare is not the same as asking you to assume it isn't. It seems to me a lot of people here see everything as confontational to the point where you can't think out loud.

You seem to keep implying that the technology is common and that they have other uses. Thus, you need to show that it is. If you think this is being confrontational then you clearly haven't been lurking here enough.

[PayBack]

Confrontational may have been the wrong word.. adversarial would have been a better one. I often bounce ideas off people and sometimes play devils advocate and then find I'm being seen as defending a position but often I'm not. And no it's not an attempt to wriggle out of things, I usually wriggle with more subtlety

Well I know it's used for Cities and the Death Stars, and IIRC Wong mentions Han having access to it? Or someone in a book about Han? I don't recall, but I certainly got the impression it wasn't rare. I'd appreciate it if someone does know the third instance I mentioned. I'll have a look myself shortly to see if I can find it.

[PayBack]

Imperial Duplicators can make weapons, machine componants etc from raw materials, but yes again their availability is still in question. The book was called Han Solo and the Lost Legacy which I haven't read so perhaps someone who has could spread some light on the Imperial Duplicators in that book?

[General Zod]

Confrontational may have been the wrong word.. adversarial would have been a better one. I often bounce ideas off people and sometimes play devils advocate and then find I'm being seen as defending a position but often I'm not. And no it's not an attempt to wriggle out of things, I usually wriggle with more subtlety

Just fyi, playing devil's advocate and not bothering to say as much when you make your first argument come off as backpedaling or flat out lying when someone later says that's all they were doing, after having their points repeatedly slammed. Since there really isn't any way of telling that's all someone's doing when they're making an argument in favor of something.

[PayBack]

Well fortunately that hasn't happened yet as the idea bouncing usually only happens when there are no obvious facts proving one or other theory. And in this instance right from the outset I make it clear I was asking as to the rebels having access to the duplicator tech and that my belief they would was just that, a belief. I've shown why I believe it but never implied to was conclusive.

[Darth Tanner]

Modern day construction machinery inst that tightly regulated is it? A quick search on the net reveals several companies willing to sell or hire out boom cranes and all sorts of other pieces of machinery and I've never head of government approval needed to do do, obviously you'd need planning permission to set up such a crane in a city but out on a empty planet I don't see why the government would care too much.

Now obviously these SW replicator machines could me more tightly controlled because of their military applications but still I see no reason why the Rebellion couldn't just buy more basic construction machinery. Failing that if I remember the Rebellion is more than willing to support itself from stolen Imperial equipment.

Also wouldn't cities be sprouting up in a matter of days? With such a vast galactic population and advanced medical technology, net population growth must be vast and require massive amounts of house building just to keep pace with the population growth.

Why would the rebels screw around with a base like Hoth if they also had the system of the Mon Calamari? Which was fortified so powerfully that the imperial fleet couldn't just concentrate up and wipe it out?

I never thought MonCalamari declared independence and broke free of its Imperial garrison until after Endor, with the Moncal fleet simply fleeing the planet to join the rebels before they were invaded. One of the big things with the EU I hate is when the Imperial fleet unable to conquer small political entities, the Hapans for example.

[General Zod]

Also wouldn't cities be sprouting up in a matter of days? With such a vast galactic population and advanced medical technology, net population growth must be vast and require massive amounts of house building just to keep pace with the population growth.

If you're willing to compare individual SW planets with big cities in modern times, you have people moving away from and into them all the time, people dying all the time, etc. So you'll frequently have space opening up at a fluxing rate, so it's not as if there will be too steady of growth. Reasonably city development would be an occasional thing, especially as the entire surface of Coruscant is covered by cities.

Now obviously these SW replicator machines could me more tightly controlled because of their military applications but still I see no reason why the Rebellion couldn't just buy more basic construction machinery. Failing that if I remember the Rebellion is more than willing to support itself from stolen Imperial equipment.

Perhaps city building technology is in limited supply and only rented out to development corporations on a contractual basis, and thus closely guarded. Or perhaps the Empire tightly regulates who can build cities. It's not exactly known for giving its citizens much freedom.

[harbringer]

The world devastators do use common tech but like the death star the scale is something else again it is like saying the rebels steal a patrol boat therefore they can steal a battleship. For example how in the blazers are they going to transport something that big anyhow? and at a moments notice??. What if they don't find common elements that just are not present in our galaxy because of a difference in formation or age?. How are they going to teach people that have NO IDEA how something works to a) use it to the upmost of its potential b) service and maintain it and c) only against the people you want. Could the romulans steal it if the federation had it? what would happen then? you telling me that the rebels couldnt think of this either??.

I pretty much doubt that the federation can long term help the rebels in any meaningful way to justify them giving away such wonderous devices. As for the rebels being more sympathetic they are at war and are unlikely to spare the AQ any thought at all until they are in charge (which in the EU wont be for a very long time).

Basically it is like sayiong there is a tribe living in the darkest depths of the amazon someone meets them will we a) give them aircraft carriers fighter jets and factories b) give them basic health care or c) pretty much worry only after more important issues are solved. If you said A then you are a moron and should sterilise yourself (rubber bands not supplied). B or C are the only real answers and you might see the parralel to the AQ.

[Darth_Bastard]

So far as I am concerned, it is a moot point.

The Rebels obviously value personal freedom and freedom of choice very highly. Given that, their reaction to the Federation would vary somewhere between disgust and hatred. With a dash of revulsion for good measure. Luke would probably behead the Federation president without so much as a twinge of guilt, knowing he has just widened the world of the kind of people who really take on such occupations as science and engineering a tad. Chewbacca would probably eat a few Feds and complain in Wookie-speak that they need salt.

[CaptHawkeye]

I seriously doubt Chewbacca, even as a Wookie, would want to put any part of his mouth on ST galaxy's transporter clone humans.

[Darth_Bastard]

Probably, but I was trying to be clever and provide a strong hint regarding the level of animosity the Alliance would soon feel toward the Federation.