Civil War #7 - Spoilers

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2007-02-23 09:00am

I honestly was hoping for some big bad reason behind this all. I'm used to big bad reasons, even corny or sappy ones.

There wasn't one for CW, there was just a big pile of shit with no explanation or actual resolution of issues. You bring up politically charged storylines and then just drop them for no appearant reason.

If there was som big bad reason why not fucking drop a clue bomb on us at the end of the last issue.

I wouldn't mind 18's reasoning for CW, it makes comic book sense. I was fully expecting something to be behind it, because these characters are acting waaaaaaaaaay out of character and the damage that is being done to their characters needs some outside explanation.

No other recourse for me to get my point across asid from stopping my marvel purchases until they realize how fucked up they were to have ended CW in that manner.

I honestly would love to know what older industry legends like Stan Lee would think about this, when considering the storyline objectively.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » 2007-02-23 05:16pm

I haven't read the CW series, in fact I mainly stick to DC but the CW sounds loosely like DC's Kingdom Come, except I liked KC's storyline and art a lot more than this.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-02-23 06:41pm

I think 18's idea is really good. It just doesn't have enough Black Panther.

They could have had Thor somehow interject and stop Stark's spirit from discombobulating or whatever they do in Marvel when someone dies.

DarkSilver · Post by **DarkSilver** » 2007-02-23 08:53pm

except 18's idea goes against what we've already seen of Zemo in the Thunderbirds comic. Zemo is building his army of supervillans into loyal Thunderbolts to combat a threat that will be going against the world sometime in the near future.

And when unmasked...he looks nothing like Stark...

Post by **Steve** » 2007-02-23 09:05pm

Enigma wrote:I haven't read the CW series, in fact I mainly stick to DC but the CW sounds loosely like DC's Kingdom Come, except I liked KC's storyline and art a lot more than this.

I noticed the same, just that Civil War sucks horribly and is meant as political allegory, not a story all of it's own with Biblical overtones.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2007-02-24 04:56am

CW started out well but it seemed to me almost like Marvel didn't know what they were doing. Initially they were making pains to show the reasons behind registered superheroing, trying to show both sides so that Peter's initial support of the act was believable, and then all of a sudden they were sticking People With Powers in the Negative Zone and having supervillains do their dirty work.

I thought that was the angle they were taking - the comparisons with current US politics being hard to miss - but apparently they did another 180 at the last fucking second?

Note to Marvel: Plan your fucking story arcs. House of M might have been utterly pointless but at least it was structured.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2007-02-24 05:34am

DarkSilver wrote:except 18's idea goes against what we've already seen of Zemo in the Thunderbirds comic. Zemo is building his army of supervillans into loyal Thunderbolts to combat a threat that will be going against the world sometime in the near future.

Well not really. This is just plan B. Plan A involved the gravity stones and such, but failed, plan B involves...this stuff.

Indeed, this plan would make more sense and is more likely to actually work, using comic book logic.

And when unmasked...he looks nothing like Stark...

And that's why i said "With the help of plastic surgery" he assumes Stark's identity.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2007-02-24 05:43am

They did plan this, they purposefully made the pro reg look bad to get most people anti so at the end they could turn around with a shock surprise ending where the pro reg were right all along.

This was supposed to be humbling twist and surprise but instead it was just a heavy handed slap in the face for what was supposed to be a balanced situation.

Oddysseus · Post by **Oddysseus** » 2007-02-24 10:19am

I just realized what Reed and Stark's balther at the end reminded me of.

The old Stalinist progroganda news reels. All is well. The 5 Year Plan is a glorious success. We head into a bright future. Comrade Stalin is truly wise, and will show us the way.

Works so divorced from reality.

No wonder this feels so creey to read.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2007-02-24 02:27pm

CW started out well but it seemed to me almost like Marvel didn't know what they were doing. Initially they were making pains to show the reasons behind registered superheroing, trying to show both sides so that Peter's initial support of the act was believable, and then all of a sudden they were sticking People With Powers in the Negative Zone and having supervillains do their dirty work.

This sudden change is actually when I started to dislike CW -- false advertising. I'd also say that CW's pacing seemed abrupt overall, despite "more pages in CW7, it's so big!"

Oddysseus wrote:I just realized what Reed and Stark's balther at the end reminded me of.

The old Stalinist progroganda news reels. All is well. The 5 Year Plan is a glorious success. We head into a bright future. Comrade Stalin is truly wise, and will show us the way.

Works so divorced from reality.

No wonder this feels so creey to read.

Admittedly, without me thinking of Stalin, this is right-there why I got the theory I did about CW7's ending -- both Reed's narrated text and the panels' imagery.

(Incidentally, a Marvel preview for the Initiative said that all those who were pro-reg, I paraphrase... "You're all in the army now. Every last one of you." Emphasis mine.)

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2007-02-28 08:14pm

I was lurking some comic forums, and I came across this revelation from Civil War: Front Line #11, which went on sale today:

They [Sally and Ben Urich] then visit Tony Stark. The traitor was Tony all along. He made Osbourne attack the Atlanteons in a gamble to use the prospect of a war with Atlantis to increase funds for his plan and to persuade unregistered heroes to register to potentially fight a common foe in the Atlanteans.

What. The. Fuck.

This goes beyond the implied war profiteering, the Negative Zone Gitmo, and siccing Clor on the anti-Reg heroes. Tony Stark actually planned the MURDER of foreign people in the hopes of starting a fucking WAR for his own purposes. How the HELL is Iron Man supposed to be a viable heroic character anymore?

Has anyone read this crap, and is able to fill the rest of us in on the details?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2007-02-28 09:12pm

At this point, I'm almost praying that Hulk kills the bastard come summer. Until then, I've received more fodder for the cannon aimed at one of my friends who happens to love Iron Prick...

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2007-02-28 11:16pm

I said a few issues of CW ago that Iron Man needs to die. This is just more fuel for the fire.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2007-02-28 11:47pm

To all those disgusted by the revelations of CWF#11, feel free to use this little gift as we get closer and closer to World War Hulk (as I refuse to participate in another of Marvel's sig band wagons for the moment):

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2007-03-01 12:01am

If Iron Man has turned into that much of a prick I just keep feeling that sooner or later it'll be revealed that it's not him, or he's being controlled or some other bullshit.

They already had Kang controlling Iron Man in the 1990s so just hope that in this case it turns out that it was just Stark and his own totally human issues. Then I hope the Hulk, or Thor, or someone just pounds Iron Man flatter than a empty tube of toothpaste.

Let some writer a few years down the road come in an retcon things so it wasn't Tony Stark who was doing all this crap but right now I hope it is and that he ends up regretting the crap that's come out in CW.

I am soooo glad that I've only purchased one book that is even nominally associated with this CW crap. They've taken a perfectly good grey issue and fucked it all to hell. If this is a poorly done set up for something to be revealled later then the reveal better be fucking good.

--
I suppose I should be thankfull to DC and Marvel for coming out with such shit ass mega cross overs because over the last couple of years I had wandered back into reading a bunch of their regular books. Now, thankfully, I can save my time and money and spend both more wisely. Hope they have good luck finding those new readers they were hoping to find.

KrauserKrauser · Post by **KrauserKrauser** » 2007-03-01 12:05am

Thanks for the image, I'll gladly jump on as one of the first on the World War Hulk Bandwagon.

I want Hulk to use Reed's lifeless body to kill Iron Man. I think that would make me want to buy Marvel comics again.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2007-03-01 12:49am

I'm kind of a noob for this whole series, and I'm confused. Can someone fill me in?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2007-03-01 01:38am

Man, Iron Douche showed up in the Runaways hideout.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2007-03-01 04:12am

Superman wrote:I'm kind of a noob for this whole series, and I'm confused. Can someone fill me in?

Civil War or World War Hulk.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2007-03-01 04:12am

I meant the above as question; may bad...

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2007-03-01 05:56am

Jim Raynor wrote: Has anyone read this crap, and is able to fill the rest of us in on the details?

The two "reporters" (you will understand the reason for the "" shortly) go to see Cap in prison, Sally mouths off at him for being out of touch with America, it isn't about mom and apple pie any more but about American Idol and Myspace.
She also says that if anybody is gong to topple buildings they better be democratically held to account.

Ten days later they go to see Herr Stark and reveal that he forced Osborne to attack the Atlantean diplomats in order to prevoke a war and get the heroes to unite against a common enemy, Sally applauds him for doing what needed to be done (i.e toppling buildings without democratic oversight).
They agree not to publish the story because it would jeopardise what Stark it doing, Stark tells them to get the hell out of his office and then throws his helmet across the room and falls to his knees crying.

Stay tuned for WWH:Frontline comic to a CBS near you soon.

MadSorcerer · Post by **MadSorcerer** » 2007-03-01 08:16am

Why are is Marvel making Iron Man evil? What did he ever do them?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-03-01 08:16am

MadSorcerer wrote:Why are is Marvel making Iron Man evil? What did he ever do them?

Because Armor Wars wasn't big enough.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2007-03-01 08:36am

MadSorcerer wrote:Why are is Marvel making Iron Man evil? What did he ever do them?

The scary thing is that they don't actually think they are.

Mark Millar:I love Tony. Tony's mental, but charming and smart and utterly idealistic. He only wants the best. He's the Marvel hero I'd be most likely to hang out with were I ever sucked through a wormhole into the Marvel Universe.

Whereas Joe Q hailed the SHRA as the government doing what it should be doing and listening to the people for a change.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2007-03-01 08:54am

On the face of it, the SHRA does sound reasonable. Although as we see with Parker, 'coming out' has had disastrous results (assuming for the moment that Aunt May is dead for good).

What really gets me with Civil War is that it was obvious that the SHRA and SHIELD and that Hill woman were obvious jackboot knockoffs - so they end up winning.