Nemesis UK release.

[NecronLord]

I have now seen it

"There is no word in the languages of elves, men or ents to describe this crappiness."

The Ent-E now leaves a trail of smoke behind when it goes to warp? What the fuck is this chitty-chitty-bang-bang? No starfleet ship has ever done this before?

As for Shinpad's tactics..

Please enlighten me someone. You have a ship that can fire when cloaked, so you sneak up on the enemy? even though their only way of hitting you is scanning for sheild impacts? Inverse Square Law (IIRC) anyone. It makes infinitely more sense to stay well away from the enterprise and fire repeated full volleys. NOT fire constantly giving away your position constantly. As soon as one sheild section is down it should be simple enough to come in close (bear in mind that the enterprise is travelling at impulse, scan for (shinzon's) Picard's Bio-signiture, something we are told about many many times in Voy, and beam him aboard. (not that he would have gotten away from me in the first place)

Seriouly why do the scorpions not have some meathod of preventing hijacking. Even docking clamps would do nicely.

Again, why did shitzon not simply beam picard back to his clamp (tm) when he escaped? did we really need to see picard wayne a disruptor blasing in each hand?

And it gets even better Moronizon feels the need to project himself inside the enterprise to taunt his progenitor? Why? What possible use is it?

By the time the viewscreen is blseted the enterprises sheilds are clearly down. Beam Picard into his clamp and get on with it!

Wouldn't it have been simpler to wait in orbit of the primative planet, where Shin-pad planted the B4 and beam picard up from there, when the sheilds of the enterprise are down? Then as he supposedly wanted tactical data, deploy the Medusa Radiation weapon? simple, no more crew.

Hell he could beam the mini-medusa he used on the senate onto the enterprises' bridge, we know from "Brothers IIRC" (IIRC) that all he has to do is beam to the enterprise bridge and say "Computer; recognise Picard, Jean-Luc, alpha two clearence, localise all comand functions to the main bridge, Deactivate all communications systems and erect maximim intensity force fields at all entrances." and that will give him all the time he wants to read though their files, hell he can then go back to his ship, use the big medusa gun on the enterpise (which has been entirely locked down) and get himself a free ship in the bargin.

Also why do all B4's limbs give off a positronic signal when data has repetedly told us in TNG that only his brain is positronic, and that it is in his head? Why do they do night of the living dead impressions?

For that matter why is the medusa gun generator on the main bridge of shin-pad's ship? Why does he feel the need to stand right next to it?

Also why does he carry two knives and no disruptor.

I sort of feel sorry for Picard. I'd hate it if my clone turned out to be so moronically stupid.

[Alyeska]

You over analyzied the film and make hasty generalizations. Not a very smart thing to do. Does a film have to be absolutely perfect in plot and have zero inconsistencies to make it good? I guess you didn't think very highly of TWOK either.

I am getting sick and tired of everyone ripping into this film for absolutely no reason.

Thats right, I think all you freaking nitpickers out there are complete idiots. There is a difference between minor points, and major ones. EVERY movie has its low points, even AOTC. Try watching the movie for fun rather then with a red marker pin and a tap recorder to mark every little point you don't agree with 100%.

The movie was fun to watch. Was it Oscar Performance? No. Was it en epic film to remember for ever? No. Was the movie fun and generally well laid out? Yes.

What is more important. Enjoying the film, or criticing every pathetic little detail? If all you (and I am speaking to people in general, not just the thread starter) can do is nitpick the film on its minor details and say thats what made it bad, your pathetic. That means you ought not like ANY movie, and that includes all the Star Wars movies as well. There is such a thing as suspension of belief when watching such films. Try using it next time.

[NecronLord]

Well I'm sorry if you think that discussion of the frankly stupid and glaringly so tactics used by shinzon and myself saying how I would do it offends you.

As I understood it the purpose of this forum is Discussion of the film. That is not over analysis. Over analysis would be for example me pointing out that picards clamp is also the borg queen's alcove in Dark Frontier, and Endgame.(Voy)

[Alyeska]

Well I'm sorry if you think that discussion of the frankly stupid and glaringly so tactics used by shinzon and myself saying how I would do it offends you.

As I understood it the purpose of this forum is Discussion of the film. That is not over analysis. Over analysis would be for example me pointing out that picards clamp is also the borg queen's alcove in Dark Frontier, and Endgame.(Voy)

No, Over Analysis is taking what are relatively minor points like you have and trumping them up as the reason the entire movie is bad. You claim "Skippys" bad tactics are the reason you dislike Nemesis? So that means you ought to be extremely disgusted with the Star Wars movies for their bad tactics.

Your using a double standard with your critique of the movie. You turn a blind eye towards Wars when attacking Trek.

[Master of Ossus]

Alyeska, listen to me. According to you, he's ripping on the film for no reason. He GAVE YOU his reasons. Now, in this particular case, the inconsistencies are such that, for him, the film was not as enjoyable as it could have been.

Besides, you're always the one screaming at me that I'm not respecting people's opinions. Now I find you telling everyone that they're stupid for not enjoying the film? Come on, you're being completely inconsistent and unreasonable.

For someone who recently confessed to "Never having watched" Attack of the Clones, and yet who also argued vehemently that not seeing the movie but judging it is unfair, you seem to be taking a pretty defenseless stand on this. I suggest that you back down before your antics attract the attention of more board members.

[Master of Ossus]

No, Over Analysis is taking what are relatively minor points like you have and trumping them up as the reason the entire movie is bad. You claim "Skippys" bad tactics are the reason you dislike Nemesis? So that means you ought to be extremely disgusted with the Star Wars movies for their bad tactics.

Your using a double standard with your critique of the movie. You turn a blind eye towards Wars when attacking Trek.

Bullshit. The plot as a whole is a central, and therefore major, part of a film. The fact that "Nemesis" had a weak plot is a major plot concern that harms the final product. Moreover, this is not a double standard. The fact that Shinzon's tactics were central to the way that the film played out make them major points, and you have made an unsubstantiated claim about his not using Star Wars' allegedly poor grasp of tactics to critique those films.

[Alyeska]

No, Over Analysis is taking what are relatively minor points like you have and trumping them up as the reason the entire movie is bad. You claim "Skippys" bad tactics are the reason you dislike Nemesis? So that means you ought to be extremely disgusted with the Star Wars movies for their bad tactics.

Your using a double standard with your critique of the movie. You turn a blind eye towards Wars when attacking Trek.

Bullshit. The plot as a whole is a central, and therefore major, part of a film. The fact that "Nemesis" had a weak plot is a major plot concern that harms the final product. Moreover, this is not a double standard. The fact that Shinzon's tactics were central to the way that the film played out make them major points, and you have made an unsubstantiated claim about his not using Star Wars' allegedly poor grasp of tactics to critique those films.

Except we don't even learn the centeral plot untill half way through the movie. There are MINOR points in which Schinzon MIGHT have been able to beam Picard off after his escape. But in attempts to use that as a plot hole people fail to consider even a small possibility. Sensor disruption. Just because you can beam from point A to point B doesn't mean you can lock on to someone else. The Enterprise can very easily have been jamming the sensors of the Scimitar to keep Picard safe. This is actually SUPPORTED by the fact that the Scimitar sent a boarding party over to find Picard because they couldn't just beam him.

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

[NecronLord]

Well I'm sorry if you think that discussion of the frankly stupid and glaringly so tactics used by shinzon and myself saying how I would do it offends you.

As I understood it the purpose of this forum is Discussion of the film. That is not over analysis. Over analysis would be for example me pointing out that picards clamp is also the borg queen's alcove in Dark Frontier, and Endgame.(Voy)

No, Over Analysis is taking what are relatively minor points like you have and trumping them up as the reason the entire movie is bad. You claim "Skippys" bad tactics are the reason you dislike Nemesis? So that means you ought to be extremely disgusted with the Star Wars movies for their bad tactics.

Just out of curiosity which ones would these be? The only one I can think of is Yoda not hitting the arena with 200 gigatons.

Your using a double standard with your critique of the movie. You turn a blind eye towards Wars when attacking Trek.

Excuse me? When exactly have I attacked any other trek film? (ok possibly inssurection and Generations)

[NecronLord]

No, Over Analysis is taking what are relatively minor points like you have and trumping them up as the reason the entire movie is bad. You claim "Skippys" bad tactics are the reason you dislike Nemesis? So that means you ought to be extremely disgusted with the Star Wars movies for their bad tactics.

Your using a double standard with your critique of the movie. You turn a blind eye towards Wars when attacking Trek.

Bullshit. The plot as a whole is a central, and therefore major, part of a film. The fact that "Nemesis" had a weak plot is a major plot concern that harms the final product. Moreover, this is not a double standard. The fact that Shinzon's tactics were central to the way that the film played out make them major points, and you have made an unsubstantiated claim about his not using Star Wars' allegedly poor grasp of tactics to critique those films.

Except we don't even learn the centeral plot untill half way through the movie. There are MINOR points in which Schinzon MIGHT have been able to beam Picard off after his escape. But in attempts to use that as a plot hole people fail to consider even a small possibility. Sensor disruption. Just because you can beam from point A to point B doesn't mean you can lock on to someone else. The Enterprise can very easily have been jamming the sensors of the Scimitar to keep Picard safe. This is actually SUPPORTED by the fact that the Scimitar sent a boarding party over to find Picard because they couldn't just beam him.

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

The convolouted B-4 ploy?

[Master of Ossus]

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

Oh, really? So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave? How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out? Why haven't we heard of B-4 before? Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not? What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE? Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up? Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications? And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP? What did the UFP ever do to him? And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

[NecronLord]

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

Oh, really? So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave? How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out? Why haven't we heard of B-4 before? Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not? What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE? Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up? Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications? And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP? What did the UFP ever do to him? And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

Oh and also where did slaves get the materials and manufacturing facilities to build their uber warbird?

[Alyeska]

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

Oh, really? So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave?

He had 14 sucessfull engagements in the Dominion war.

How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out?

They couldn't track Picard because of the ships possible jamming. They could transport though. Its entirely possible that with contact with Picard or using transport transponders they can then pick up his signal. Kinda like the Insurrection Isolinear Tags that beam through jamming.

Why haven't we heard of B-4 before?

They never heard of Lore before, nor did they learn of Soong's wife who later was an android. They never learned of ANY of them until actually finding them.

Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not?

First, this is a VERY minor point. Second, his hair could hide it at certain angles.

What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE?

They did not know this yet. They didn't even know that Schinzon was human when they first found out he became the Preator, they thought he was Remen.

Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up?

Welll... He actually did. Why didn't he take enough? Because Schinzon appeared to be VERY egotistical and was playing with Picard.

Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications?

They were attempting to get to Federation space ASAP and Picard had either not been told they would pass through it or had first not considered the implications in his rush to get home.

And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP?

Its more then that. He is pissed with everyone in general. After subjigating the Romulan Senate he decided to go after the enxt biggest fish.

What did the UFP ever do to him?

Other then promote Picard making him the targeting of a covert Romulan program to create a Clone that was later abandoned...

And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Because they needed the support of the Remens for the industrial needs and they didn't realize Schinzon's plans.

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

Indeed I see no massive hole. I see the basic plot of the movie being a conflict between Schinzon and Picard, and it doesn't fully appear until half way through the movie.

[Alyeska]

There is no hole in the centeral plot. Its just people finding excuses to dislike the movie.

Oh, really? So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave? How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out? Why haven't we heard of B-4 before? Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not? What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE? Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up? Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications? And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP? What did the UFP ever do to him? And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

Oh and also where did slaves get the materials and manufacturing facilities to build their uber warbird?

First and foremost the Remens were used as assault troops in the Dominion war. Secondly it appears by this time in Star Trek that the Remens have gained a level of power within the Romulans because they allowed Schinzon to gain power. They were no longer slaves by this point. It is also mentioned in other threads its likely the warmongering part of the Romulan military supported Schinzon and disliked the current Senate, hence they assisted in the building of the Scimitar. And this wasn't my idea. I said that Schinzon managed to build the Scimitar relatively quickly. Others wanted to disprove this (and there by maintain terrible build rates for ST ships) by claiming the Romulan navy had built it for a while.

[NecronLord]

Oh, really? So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave? How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out? Why haven't we heard of B-4 before? Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not? What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE? Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up? Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications? And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP? What did the UFP ever do to him? And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

Oh and also where did slaves get the materials and manufacturing facilities to build their uber warbird?

First and foremost the Remens were used as assault troops in the Dominion war. Secondly it appears by this time in Star Trek that the Remens have gained a level of power within the Romulans because they allowed Schinzon to gain power. They were no longer slaves by this point. It is also mentioned in other threads its likely the warmongering part of the Romulan military supported Schinzon and disliked the current Senate, hence they assisted in the building of the Scimitar. And this wasn't my idea. I said that Schinzon managed to build the Scimitar relatively quickly. Others wanted to disprove this (and there by maintain terrible build rates for ST ships) by claiming the Romulan navy had built it for a while.

He said it was built at a secret reman base IIRC. He could be Lying but it looks very different from any other romulan ship (it's not even green ) Edit; as I understood it, the Remans only got their freedom after the assasination of the senate?

[Master of Ossus]

[quote="Master of Ossus

So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave? [/quote]

He had 14 sucessfull engagements in the Dominion war.[/quote]

LMAO! A SLAVE had 14 successful engagements as a military COMMANDER, and then went back to being a slave?

How were they planning to extract Picard AND the away team, if they could not beam Picard out?

They couldn't track Picard because of the ships possible jamming. They could transport though. Its entirely possible that with contact with Picard or using transport transponders they can then pick up his signal. Kinda like the Insurrection Isolinear Tags that beam through jamming.

Perhaps, I'll give you this one.

Why haven't we heard of B-4 before?

They never heard of Lore before, nor did they learn of Soong's wife who later was an android. They never learned of ANY of them until actually finding them.

And it doesn't strike you as being weird?

Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not?

First, this is a VERY minor point. Second, his hair could hide it at certain angles.

Not really, it's the only physical differentiation between Data and B-4. His hair does not hide it at some of the angles, yet we see nothing.

What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE?

They did not know this yet. They didn't even know that Schinzon was human when they first found out he became the Preator, they thought he was Remen.

BULLSHIT. Data said this when they were FLEEING from Shinzon, towards their "battlegroup." This was WELL after he had become Praetor, and WELL after they knew that he was Picard's clone. In fact, it was in response to their knowledge that he was Picard's clone. Data didn't care that Shinzon had raised himself from being a slave to Praetor, and concluded that he didn't want to be better than he was?

Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up?

Welll... He actually did. Why didn't he take enough? Because Schinzon appeared to be VERY egotistical and was playing with Picard.

I see, so this is to be chalked up to another "Before I kill you, I've decided to tell you my evil scheme" type of idea.

Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications?

They were attempting to get to Federation space ASAP and Picard had either not been told they would pass through it or had first not considered the implications in his rush to get home.

And they were in such a giant hurry that they didn't bother to go around the cloud. They were trying to avoid being attacked along the way, and if they had gone around the cloud then they would have been able to do so, or at least would have been able to alert the fleet to what was going on. Besides, Data is the second officer on the Enterprise, and Picard was the Captain. How could NEITHER of them know what course the E-E was taking before it was too late, particularly since Data knew the effects of the cloud?

And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP?

Its more then that. He is pissed with everyone in general. After subjigating the Romulan Senate he decided to go after the enxt biggest fish.

I see. To test out his doomsday weapon, he's not going to attack the people who have enslaved him for the last however many years, he's going after another target that has nothing to do with the source of his anger? Besides which, he did seem pissed off at the UFP. "The mighty Federation will fall," makes it sound a lot like he's got an old score to settle with them.

What did the UFP ever do to him?

Other then promote Picard making him the targeting of a covert Romulan program to create a Clone that was later abandoned...

Let me get this straight, Shinzon is pissed off because he was brought into existence? He seemed quite satisfied with his life, once he had become Praetor.

And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Because they needed the support of the Remens for the industrial needs and they didn't realize Schinzon's plans.

Erm... wait a minute. Shinzon TOLD them that he was going to knock "The Mighty Federation to its knees," and they had given him a weapon that would destroy all life on a planet, AND he told them that Earth was a good target, and took only one ship (the one that carried the weapon) and they still had no inkling of what he was going to do?

Despite all of these, you still claim that there is no hole in the central plot? What do you consider "The essential plot" of the film?

Indeed I see no massive hole. I see the basic plot of the movie being a conflict between Schinzon and Picard, and it doesn't fully appear until half way through the movie.

And I still have no idea how you can claim this, particularly since Skippy's tactics (which were criticized) did not represent a hole in the central plot.

[TheDarkling]

[quote="Master of Ossus]So where did Shinzon find his combat experience if he's spent his life as a slave?

He had 14 sucessfull engagements in the Dominion war.

LMAO! A SLAVE had 14 successful engagements as a military COMMANDER, and then went back to being a slave?

They needed troops so they took them out of the slave population then used them althuogh him being given command is a little odd if he showed good tactical abilities it is possible.

Why haven't we heard of B-4 before?

They never heard of Lore before, nor did they learn of Soong's wife who later was an android. They never learned of ANY of them until actually finding them.

And it doesn't strike you as being weird?

It doesn't strike me as weird, anymore weird than the other instances.

Why did B-4 sometimes have the back-up memory port in his neck, and sometimes not?

First, this is a VERY minor point. Second, his hair could hide it at certain angles.

Not really, it's the only physical differentiation between Data and B-4. His hair does not hide it at some of the angles, yet we see nothing.

Thats a nitpick do you also comlpain about Spiderman because his clothes didn't hand right when he was on buildings? or when in a film theres a drinking scene and the amount of beer in the glass goes up and down?

What the hell kind of evidence did Data have for his "Shinzon doesn't aspire to be greater than he is" comment if Shinzon pulled strings to make himself a fucking RULER OF AN EMPIRE?

They did not know this yet. They didn't even know that Schinzon was human when they first found out he became the Preator, they thought he was Remen.

BULLSHIT. Data said this when they were FLEEING from Shinzon, towards their "battlegroup." This was WELL after he had become Praetor, and WELL after they knew that he was Picard's clone. In fact, it was in response to their knowledge that he was Picard's clone. Data didn't care that Shinzon had raised himself from being a slave to Praetor, and concluded that he didn't want to be better than he was?

I think he ment better himself in the way of stop being a little angry child and grow upto be a morale man not what often passes for betterment in capitalist societies (comrade ) with moving up in station wealth etc.

Why didn't Shinzon just take Picard's DNA when he had him locked up?

Welll... He actually did. Why didn't he take enough? Because Schinzon appeared to be VERY egotistical and was playing with Picard.

I see, so this is to be chalked up to another "Before I kill you, I've decided to tell you my evil scheme" type of idea.

No its a, I will force lightening (on low) you a few times then say "Now young Skywalker... you will die" type of idea - that scene is still great every thuogh the emperor plays with Luke a little.

Why didn't they go around the cloud that disrupted their communications?

They were attempting to get to Federation space ASAP and Picard had either not been told they would pass through it or had first not considered the implications in his rush to get home.

And they were in such a giant hurry that they didn't bother to go around the cloud. They were trying to avoid being attacked along the way, and if they had gone around the cloud then they would have been able to do so, or at least would have been able to alert the fleet to what was going on. Besides, Data is the second officer on the Enterprise, and Picard was the Captain. How could NEITHER of them know what course the E-E was taking before it was too late, particularly since Data knew the effects of the cloud?

They obviously didn't putn two and twotogetehr however once they are entering the cloud they both realise straight away, it simply was an oversight (maybe Picard didn't know and Data dropped the ball).

And why is Skippy so pissed off at the UFP?

Its more then that. He is pissed with everyone in general. After subjigating the Romulan Senate he decided to go after the enxt biggest fish.

I see. To test out his doomsday weapon, he's not going to attack the people who have enslaved him for the last however many years, he's going after another target that has nothing to do with the source of his anger? Besides which, he did seem pissed off at the UFP. "The mighty Federation will fall," makes it sound a lot like he's got an old score to settle with them.

Well lets see fear of the Federation has been used as a primary tool by the Romulan senate for years to force military buildup (and thus the slavery), many Remnas died in the Federation led war against the Dominion, he exists because of Picard and the Federation and finally he needs Romulan support to take over the galaxy and make teh Remans its master so killing them would leave him between a rock and a hard place.

And why would the Romulan Military support a coup, like this, instead of taking power for themselves?

Because they needed the support of the Remens for the industrial needs and they didn't realize Schinzon's plans.

Erm... wait a minute. Shinzon TOLD them that he was going to knock "The Mighty Federation to its knees," and they had given him a weapon that would destroy all life on a planet, AND he told them that Earth was a good target, and took only one ship (the one that carried the weapon) and they still had no inkling of what he was going to do?[/quote]

Some of the hardliners thought it was a good idea, I just don't think they realsied how insane Shizon really was.

Sorry to butt in but I just wanted to address some of those points.

[Master of Ossus]

He had 14 sucessfull engagements in the Dominion war.

LMAO! A SLAVE had 14 successful engagements as a military COMMANDER, and then went back to being a slave?

They needed troops so they took them out of the slave population then used them althuogh him being given command is a little odd if he showed good tactical abilities it is possible.

There's more to it than that, though. Shinzon said that he had been in the slave mines for the past ten years. Let's assume that he's twenty-one, because he's Picard's age when Picard was going to the Academy. That would mean the Romulans took a slave who was ELEVEN YEARS OLD, AND a human, and made him a MILITARY COMMANDER? WTF is this? This does not compute.

[TheDarkling]

Well he said he had been a slave in mines for the past 10 years but if he served in the Dominion war (which I think its said he did) then obviously he had a little break for a different sort of slavery.

[Master of Ossus]

Well he said he had been a slave in mines for the past 10 years but if he served in the Dominion war (which I think its said he did) then obviously he had a little break for a different sort of slavery.

If you say so.

[NecronLord]

Well he said he had been a slave in mines for the past 10 years but if he served in the Dominion war (which I think its said he did) then obviously he had a little break for a different sort of slavery.

Command slavery?

Though this is not entirely without precedent the Ottoman Jannissary commanders were slaves. Then again, the whole army were slaves too.

[TheDarkling]

Just like the Remans were all slaves and they may have constituted the entire army (or at least the cannon fodder portion) and thus he was given command of them.

[Enlightenment]

That would mean the Romulans took a slave who was ELEVEN YEARS OLD, AND a human, and made him a MILITARY COMMANDER? WTF is this? This does not compute.

Shades of Enders Game.

And Anakin Skywalker, for that matter.... Child slave turned into something 'special.'

[Gil Hamilton]

Shades of Enders Game.

And Anakin Skywalker, for that matter.... Child slave turned into something 'special.'

To be fair, Ender was the end result of a breeding program and was being trained up specifically for that purpose, Shinzon was created for an entirely different purpose, discarded, and mysteriously allowed to join the military .

[Enlightenment]

To be fair, Ender was the end result of a breeding program and was being trained up specifically for that purpose, Shinzon was created for an entirely different purpose, discarded, and mysteriously allowed to join the military.

Yeah. It's not a direct ripoff; indeed there are too many big words in Enders Game for the Trek writing committee to have read it in the first place. It's just similar, that's all.