Ion Cannon Question

[Darth Servo]

They do!

VOY: Night, the ship loses all power, yet doesn't explode.

infact, "lose power" = "antimatter explosion" seems to be a very common misconception with Trek ships.

In that episode, 7 of 9 observes that, although main and auxiliary power is down, that:

"Independent subsystems are operational--environmental controls, Holodecks..." - Seven of Nine, Night.

And once again, Lord Edam's is proved to be a total liar. His bullshit is so thick he should start a fertilizer company.

[TheDarkling]

Well wasn't the point that the warp system was isolated so if main power goes down backups keep the warp drive safe, although this doesn't prove unpowered safties it does sme hat at least some measures have been taken.

[Isolder74]

They do!

VOY: Night, the ship loses all power, yet doesn't explode.

infact, "lose power" = "antimatter explosion" seems to be a very common misconception with Trek ships.

In that episode, 7 of 9 observes that, although main and auxiliary power is down, that:

"Independent subsystems are operational--environmental controls, Holodecks..." - Seven of Nine, Night.

Thanks you saved me the trouble of looking this one up.

[Lord Edam]

They do!

VOY: Night, the ship loses all power, yet doesn't explode.

infact, "lose power" = "antimatter explosion" seems to be a very common misconception with Trek ships.

In that episode, 7 of 9 observes that, although main and auxiliary power is down, that:

"Independent subsystems are operational--environmental controls, Holodecks..." - Seven of Nine, Night.

Exactly the point, zoink.

Even when they loose all main and auxiliary power (including, as we see, everything in engineering) some systems still have enough power to keep ticking over - the holodeck has enough power to keep the set of the captain proton scenario solid (but the lights go out), environmental control stay on, and the ship does not explode.

As I said in my original post,

"lose power" = "antimatter explosion" seems to be a very common misconception

[Darth Servo]

Exactly the point, zoink.

Even when they loose all main and auxiliary power (including, as we see, everything in engineering) some systems still have enough power to keep ticking over - the holodeck has enough power to keep the set of the captain proton scenario solid (but the lights go out), environmental control stay on, and the ship does not explode.

As I said in my original post,

"lose power" = "antimatter explosion" seems to be a very common misconception

Of course thats assuming we mean "lose power"="lose all power" which is clearly not what happened in this case. Losing ALL power clearly would result in a warp core explosion since they rely on active systems to keep the core from going off.

[Lord Edam]

The Enterprise-D also sat near an hyperactive sun and had many problems with EM fields and radiations.

Which episode was that, and what were the problems?

[Darth Servo]

From your original post, you lying sack of shit.

VOY: Night, the ship loses all power, yet doesn't explode.

You tried to claim the ship lost ALL power in this episode which clearly didn't happen when all the evidence is revealed.

Why do you even continue posting when you have given everyone every reason NOT to trust anything you say?

[Isolder74]

Well wasn't the point that the warp system was isolated so if main power goes down backups keep the warp drive safe, although this doesn't prove unpowered safties it does sme hat at least some measures have been taken.

Yes, it seems that starfleet has learned from the Yamato incident. now if the Ion cannon knocks out even these isolated systems then the ship may still be doomed. Unless the ship has a way to drop the tanks then only non-active containment is really safe. Recycling battery powered and heavily shielded systems covering these areas is nessisary. The warp core on Star Trek ships is way too exposed for a military or any other craft with a highly volitile power source needs its reactor better shielded.

[Lord Edam]

Of course thats assuming we mean "lose power"="lose all power" which is clearly not what happened in this case. Losing ALL power clearly would result in a warp core explosion since they rely on active systems to keep the core from going off.

Darth Servo, you have made the claim that Star Trek ships rely on active systems to protect the warp core, and that losing ALL power would result in an explosion.

Please provide evidence of these claims (though they are repeated several times in this thread no evidence has ever been given to support them).

Please also explain how it is possible for us to see the warp core lose all power, and know that the plasma injectors have stopped working so presumably lost power (Voy: Night), yet for your claims to still be true - wouldn't the warp core and plasma injectors(and anywhere else where there's antimatter) require the same active systems as you insist exist?

[Lord Edam]

From your original post, you lying sack of shit.

VOY: Night, the ship loses all power, yet doesn't explode.

You tried to claim the ship lost ALL power in this episode which clearly didn't happen when all the evidence is revealed.

Yes, I was basing it on the memory that everything in the ship went off, we had the warp core going black, the deflector dish spluttering out, the lights onthe holodeck going out. I forgot the minor details. I think you'll find that happens a lot - people debate on memory, rather than checking all the minor details. I forgot that independent subsytems remained active, and when it was pointed out to me realised it made my point even more, as well as suckering you into making a definite claim that we all know you can't prove.

Why do you even continue posting when you have given everyone every reason NOT to trust anything you say?

I continue posting because you need people to question the claims, and have their claims similarly questioned. That is the purpose of these forums, after all. Claim, counter claims, evidence, sophisty, lies and, in your case, lots of showmanship with very little real contribution.

[Slartibartfast]

The problem is that the Ion Cannon bolts (or whatever they're called) aren't going to single out the main power source of a specific starship, for instance the warp core or matter-antimatter reactor. It's going to affect whatever systems are in the area of the blasts, plus any other systems it can reach thru internal wiring.

Even if it did (single out the power source) it would be even worse for Star Trek ships, because this just happens to be the M/AM reactor. This would mean that this would be the system worst affected, and the containment would be the first thing to fail.

The "interaction of ions against particle shields" thing is just as stupid as shields are immune to beams whose name start with an "L" but not to beams whose name starts with "PH".

[Slartibartfast]

What I meant is that not just the "main" or "auxiliary" power are going to be affected, but anything near the blast, probably even artificial hearts and organs in people...

[The Nomad]

The Enterprise-D also sat near an hyperactive sun and had many problems with EM fields and radiations.

Which episode was that, and what were the problems?

"Symbiosis", TNG season 1.
More explosive consoles, shields weakened, tractor beams out, more problems with transporters...

What are your sources for the "no problem" cases ?

[Lord Edam]

"Symbiosis", TNG season 1.
More explosive consoles, shields weakened, tractor beams out, more problems with transporters...

I thought that would be the one you were on about - most of the problems there are easily explained by the star affecting communications systems - comms play up, sensors play up, tractor beam can't get a lock because the sensors are out, transporters play up because sensors and comms are playing up.

the only example of exploding consoles was consoles flashing a bit, as I recall - no actual exploding consoles this time, was there? And there certainly wasn't anything on the version shown on Sky in the UK about shields being weakened. Really, there was no threat to the ship. Their yellow alert was just a cautionary measure.

What are your sources for the "no problem" cases ?

sit in the jet from a pulsar: TNG alliegance
sit near exploding neutron stars: TNG evolution, some voy episode where Janeway takes the ship right between two neutron stars to kill the invisible aliens who are experimenting on her crew.

[Lord Poe]

[quote="Lord Edam]

What are your sources for the "no problem" cases ?

sit in the jet from a pulsar: TNG alliegance[/quote]

Come again? When did it ever "sit in a plasma jet" in that episode? In "Allegiance", a fake Picard wanted to get within 10 million km of a pulsar, and Data warned that the ship would not survive. Riker even threatened mutiny to prevent the captain from ordering the ship closer.

sit near exploding neutron stars: TNG evolution,

Been a while since I watched this one. Are you certain even one of these stars exploded?

some voy episode where Janeway takes the ship right between two neutron stars to kill the invisible aliens who are experimenting on her crew.

VGR: "Scientific Method", and they HARDLY suffered "no problems".

[HemlockGrey]

As far as I can see, Edam's argument rests on the fact that power to the M/AM containment is independant of the main power supply. However, an ion cannon does not discrimate; it knocks out all power equally. Since there is no evidence of a non-powered M/AM containment, and given Starfleet's history, we must assume that they have no other means of M/AM containment.