nBSG: "Dirty Hands"

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2007-02-26 12:30pm

CDiehl wrote:
Baltar suddenly becoming a communist, I think, is another one of his bids to save his own life.
You think? This guy was a member of the Quorum, VP and President. Wasn't he at least a minor celebrity before the Cylons invaded? Now, in all that time as a public figure, did he ever say a word about the inequities between the Colonies? No, he waited until he was in jail about to be tried for his life to give a damn about that. I don't think he was "wash[ing] his hands of this phony democracy" when he was part of it.

Hell, if anything he was revelling in it. I couldn't help but damn near roll my eyes about Baltar bitching about these "inequities" when he, as President, was boozing it up and sleeping with the ladies.

Elessar · Post by **Elessar** » 2007-02-26 02:01pm

apocolypse wrote:Hell, if anything he was revelling in it. I couldn't help but damn near roll my eyes about Baltar bitching about these "inequities" when he, as President, was boozing it up and sleeping with the ladies.

The answer is obvious now: Gaeta should get to work and pound out a book titled "Gaius Baltar: the Mistake".

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2007-02-26 03:15pm

The colonies are starting to feel like city-states of Greece. Caprica being Athens.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-02-26 03:17pm

Seems to me if Baltar WASN'T from Aerlion it would be a matter of public record. Wouldn't it?

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2007-02-26 03:21pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Seems to me if Baltar WASN'T from Aerlion it would be a matter of public record. Wouldn't it?

Unless Baltar used his connections in the Caprican government to alter or wipe out that little nugget of embarrassment.

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2007-02-26 03:36pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:Seems to me if Baltar WASN'T from Aerlion it would be a matter of public record. Wouldn't it?

Only if one of the ships in the fleet has those records.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2007-02-26 04:43pm

CaptJodan wrote:1. Why the hell would the avionics expert be delivering laundry? Surely they can get one of the umpteen civies to do that.

It's a crap detail, that probably takes all of an hour or two to do, and gets rotated among all of the lower enlisted. These things happen in the military, and this actually strikes a chord of truth.

If it makes you feel any better, the civvies are probably the ones doing the laundry.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2007-02-26 05:24pm

Nice to see Baltar is from my home county of Yorkshire, after all. I allus knew 'e wuz one of us, like.

Generally I have to say I dislike this episode, apart from the Baltar bits, most of it was a bit too contrived for my tastes, especially from what I expect of BSG. The midseason stuff has felt like the worst BSG yet, and altogether leaves me glad they've cut down to 13 eps next season and that we should be onto the home stretch soon.

NeoGoomba · Post by **NeoGoomba** » 2007-02-26 05:49pm

One thing I noticed was that Adama's voice was definately strained when he was talking about executing Cally. He's a tough bastard, but that little crack in his voice shows that he can't always put up the "Adama Front" when bringing down the hammer. The history the Admiral has with Cally and Tyrol definately made that moment so much harder for him to spit it out.

I thought it was a great episode. I just wasn't aware that the fleet was powered by cake mix. I don't know jack about refining or chemistry in general, but isnt Tyllium supposed to be, y'know, radioactive? That was one of the main sticking points in "Hand of God". If they nuked the Tyllium it would go inert, right? I'm sure I'm missing something, so is there an explaination about this that my slow brain can grasp?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2007-02-26 06:08pm

Lord Woodlouse wrote:Nice to see Baltar is from my home county of Yorkshire, after all. I allus knew 'e wuz one of us, like.

Yeah, no wonder he felt the need to cover it up to get by in polite society.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-02-26 11:18pm

NeoGoomba wrote:I thought it was a great episode. I just wasn't aware that the fleet was powered by cake mix.

It doesn't look too different from one of the stages of uranium processing.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2007-02-27 12:40am

NeoGoomba wrote:One thing I noticed was that Adama's voice was definately strained when he was talking about executing Cally. He's a tough bastard, but that little crack in his voice shows that he can't always put up the "Adama Front" when bringing down the hammer. The history the Admiral has with Cally and Tyrol definately made that moment so much harder for him to spit it out.

Adama certainly had to get his point across about separating military and civilian matters. Adama was bluffing, and I was actually expecting Tyrol to call him on the bluff too.

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2007-02-27 01:54am

Tyrol will not trust Adama again, I would hate the guts of anyone that threatens my family in that way.

But revenge is a dish best serverd cool, perhaps Lee can have a fatal accident in a viper?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2007-02-27 02:26am

So, just to clarify, Aerlion = Yorkshire, right?

SpacedTeddyBear · Post by **SpacedTeddyBear** » 2007-02-27 03:33am

I don't know jack about refining or chemistry in general, but isnt Tyllium supposed to be, y'know, radioactive? That was one of the main sticking points in "Hand of God". If they nuked the Tyllium it would go inert, right? I'm sure I'm missing something, so is there an explaination about this that my slow brain can grasp?

I don't think it was ever stated that it was radioactive, but would go inert if exposed to a high amount of radiation. That and it had a high enthalpy change.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2007-02-27 04:37am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:So, just to clarify, Aerlion = Yorkshire, right?

Not sure if that's deliberately written that way, but that's basically how James Callis has made it seem.

CDiehl · Post by **CDiehl** » 2007-02-27 10:29am

So, just to clarify, Aerlion = Yorkshire, right?

Maybe the part he claims to be from does, or people think it does.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2007-02-27 10:51am

I read up on Callis on wiki, turns out he went to York University (he's from London originally). He might well have just picked up how to do the accent while he was there.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-02-27 10:59am

Faram wrote:Tyrol will not trust Adama again, I would hate the guts of anyone that threatens my family in that way.

But revenge is a dish best serverd cool, perhaps Lee can have a fatal accident in a viper?

It's not like Adama went through with it, and he was clearly bluffing anyways. There will be no "fatal accidents" - the Chief is going to let this go.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2007-02-27 11:37am

I like the episode but a few questions about the fleet's mentality:

- They only processed enough fuel to make one or two jumps at most, being chased by the Cylons for the purpose of extermination, and they spend the time sabotaging their systems and yapping about social inequalities? While they have genuine grievances, and need a way to bring it to their superior's attention, wtf really.. "we'll all just sit here and wait for the cylons until you give us what we want?" Adama would have been more than right to shoot them all, it was a grievous act that endangered not only them, but their entire species.

- Why the hell would people read Baltar's work or even give any weight to his work? Is this all a set up for the trial to make some people sympathetic to him?

- How important are social equalities versus survival at this time in their lives? Especially after just barely escaping New Caprica?

- Of course an Adama will be commanding the BSG after the Admiral is gone. He's the only really qualified one, we all saw how Tigh dealt with command.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-02-27 11:40am

Those inequalities aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things (that is, survival of the species) ... but people might not see that. They see themselves slaving in a refinery for three years straight, kids losing arms and nobody ever making a house call unless something goes wrong. They're not thinking rationally and they're getting tired of it.

Then you get someone charismatic like Baltar, who can play the populist game very well. Even if he was a Cylon-collaborating traitor, he's writing what the people want to read.

Trytostaydead · Post by **Trytostaydead** » 2007-02-27 11:50am

phongn wrote:Those inequalities aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things (that is, survival of the species) ... but people might not see that. They see themselves slaving in a refinery for three years straight, kids losing arms and nobody ever making a house call unless something goes wrong. They're not thinking rationally and they're getting tired of it.

Yeah, but at the expense of their survival? I wouldn't have scoffed so hard had the guy phrased it or down it a little differently. He could've let things go haywire more, broken down equipment, etc etc. But immobilizing and threatening the fleet's survival was completely idiotic.

Then you get someone charismatic like Baltar, who can play the populist game very well. Even if he was a Cylon-collaborating traitor, he's writing what the people want to read.

Speaking of which, how did the chief get in to see Baltar so easily? Even someone as influential as Tyrol surely must get higher clearance to visit a prisoner like Baltar

Cincinnatus · Post by **Cincinnatus** » 2007-02-27 12:33pm

Trytostaydead wrote: - Of course an Adama will be commanding the BSG after the Admiral is gone. He's the only really qualified one, we all saw how Tigh dealt with command.

The concern that Tyrol and others had is that Lee's son, when he died or retired, would then become the military leader of the fleet, then his son's son and so on, while the descendants of a worker on the refinery ship would be stuck working on the refinery ship. They have no idea how long they're going to be on the run, it could very well be multiple generations.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2007-02-27 01:18pm

Not a horrible episode, but just as the other episodes, these people need to see the Cylons again breathing down their necks to realize how fucked it can all get.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-02-27 01:20pm

Trytostaydead wrote:Yeah, but at the expense of their survival? I wouldn't have scoffed so hard had the guy phrased it or down it a little differently. He could've let things go haywire more, broken down equipment, etc etc. But immobilizing and threatening the fleet's survival was completely idiotic.

Idiotic, yes. But again, people will do stupid things not conducive to survival, especially when stressed. They aren't thinking straight - even Chief Tyrol didn't even realize he just lead a mutiny until he was in the brig.

Speaking of which, how did the chief get in to see Baltar so easily? Even someone as influential as Tyrol surely must get higher clearance to visit a prisoner like Baltar

Possibly - the Chief also knows Baltar is alive so he might be on "the list."

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nBSG: "Dirty Hands"

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