nBSG Episode 317: "Maelstrom"...

[DevNull]

I paused it frame by frame as the nose cone starts burning, the canopy is on and you can see Kara's helmet lights until the viper goes off screen. Before that she had her hand on the eject. When it explodes the very top of the viper is off screen and you see the explosion. When Lee sees it the explosion is already under way, this did give her a few seconds to eject disappear into the clouds and be picked up by the cylon heavy raider.

[Gil Hamilton]

They obviously set it up so that her death was just ambiguous enough that they could get away with her surviving in a hackneyed sci-fi sort of way. The question is if they are going to be fair about it and have ejecting be as suicidal as staying in the cockpit or not.

[Steven Snyder]

Though I am voting a '5' here I may be going against the grain when I think that Kara is dead.

I am not buying into the speculation that the Heavy Raider was real, Kara was experiencing very serious hallucinations when she wasn't in the cockpit. It stands to reason that these hallucinations wouldn't just vanish when she strapped herself into a Viper. This is to speak nothing of the fact that this phantom raider was never seen by anyone besides Kara, didn't show up on Dradis (despite that Vipers did), and was apparently agile enough to evade pursuit by a Viper flown by one of the best pilots to ever have been. Although we the audience saw the Raider, we also saw all the rest of Kara's hallucinations too, but that doesn't make them real.

I suspect she is going to be one of the Final Five, and will play a part later in the series but I doubt we will be seeing her anytime soon.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Meh, I'll go against the grain and give it a three. It had some bits in it that were hopeful, going back to the idea that Galactica was a warship on the run with fighter pilots that protected the fleet. Was kind of nice to get back to the basics a bit.

The whole Starbuck thing was....I don't know really what to think really. I think the Cylon mystism arc has kind of gotten away from RDM a bit...but we'll see.

I'd prefer it if Starbuck stays dead but some how I doubt it.

My thoughts were as follows:

The Good:
- Spaceship Pr0n! Spaceship Pr0n! Spaceship Pr0n!!!111 I mean, uhh, yes, a spaceships and alien planets show featuring . . . spaceships and alien planets.
- The tragic death of Kara Thrace and the aftermath. I thought that was well-done.
- Oh hey, cool . . . they're hiding out in a gas giant to conduct refuelling operations. I thought it was a nice bit of consistency.
- Kara/Lee scenes without the annoyingly emo Battlestar Livejournal plot to it.
- Oooh, pretty Colonial sailing ship. Life must be well and truly boring without Cylon contact . . . Adama's taken to building model ships.
- Adama Sr. discussing the fact that Kara's finally lost it . . .

The Bad:
- . . . and Adama Jr. keeping her on the flight roster anyway.
- The fact that Kara doesn't need anyone else for an annoyingly emo Battlestar Livejournal performance.

The Downright Ugly:
- OMG, TEH CHOOZEN 1 ROFFLE!!11 . . . uhh, I mean . . . no, that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter.
- Kara Thrace is so waking up in a tub of goo, as a Cylon. You know that's the only way she could possibly survive, and I get the sinking suspicion there's no way they're going to let her stay dead. Especially given they made much ado about the Cylon Final Five, and Kara Thrace's ZOMG DESTINY. That's the proverbial gun on the mantle which must be used in a later act.

I want to be cool like everybody else, and give this episode a five. My two from last week was, admittedly, a bit hurried. I can't give any Kara Thrace-centered episode a five, due to the writers spending many episodes making her entirely unsympathetic. Unfortunately, since I'm certain she'll be coming back, I can't really give it a four either. So it gets three Vipers at crush-depth and change, out of five (3.4 out of 5.)

[CDiehl]

Kara Thrace is so waking up in a tub of goo, as a Cylon.

If that happens, I'm done with this show. I do not want this death cheapened with some contrived bullshit. They don't get to kill off a major character like this, then bring her back later. I might be able to tolerate her somehow having ejected and being rescued by the Cylons or some other group (perhaps someone from Earth), even though that's a bit far-fetched. I think that would be far less cheap than making her a Cylon or having her be an illusion in someone's head or anything like that.

As for her destiny, that so many fans are so worried about, has anyone considered that this idea was some crock of shit her mother made up to justify her abuse of her child? It sure sounds like a cliche excuse abusers give to explain their actions. Maybe Leoben either found out or intuited that Kara was told this line about being special, and used it for some reason that hasn't been explained.

[Knife]

Nobody's mentioned it, but does anyone else think that the Leoben from Starbuck's visions might be the same being that appears to Baltar and Caprica Six? She realizes right before she's ready to die that he's not really Leoben.

My thought on that is we might be seeing the good gods or angles in Leoben form. Makes a bit of sense, though I guess that means Kara's going to be Jesus Christ or something but...

[Gil Hamilton]

Though I am voting a '5' here I may be going against the grain when I think that Kara is dead.

I am not buying into the speculation that the Heavy Raider was real, Kara was experiencing very serious hallucinations when she wasn't in the cockpit. It stands to reason that these hallucinations wouldn't just vanish when she strapped herself into a Viper. This is to speak nothing of the fact that this phantom raider was never seen by anyone besides Kara, didn't show up on Dradis (despite that Vipers did), and was apparently agile enough to evade pursuit by a Viper flown by one of the best pilots to ever have been. Although we the audience saw the Raider, we also saw all the rest of Kara's hallucinations too, but that doesn't make them real.

I suspect she is going to be one of the Final Five, and will play a part later in the series but I doubt we will be seeing her anytime soon.

I think it was implied that Lee caught a glimpse of it too in the last scene. Given Lee's reaction, it looks like he saw *something* out there.

[Sam Or I]

Well maybe she will appear all in white aboard a light ship.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Well maybe she will appear all in white aboard a light ship.

RDM has explicitly said that he wasn't going down that route at all: no ships of light, no Iblis.

[Turin]

My thought on that is we might be seeing the good gods or angles in Leoben form. Makes a bit of sense, though I guess that means Kara's going to be Jesus Christ or something but...

Why not?... Moore's made everyone else female.

What do you mean by "good" gods, though? Are you talking about the gods of the Colonials?

[Trytostaydead]

I suspect she is going to be one of the Final Five, and will play a part later in the series but I doubt we will be seeing her anytime soon.

If so, I wonder what the final five really are. Why are they so mythical, shrouded in almost religious secrecy? Are they the next generation cylons? Are they really even Cylons at all?

[Azazal]

hmmm an idea hit me. Starbuck saw the cyclone/vortex in the clouds above the planet, and it matched the icon in the temple, so it looks like it was part of the map to Earth. When we saw her ship go, it was a starbust explosion, almost uniform in appearance, I do not recall any other viper making the same type of boom when destroyed. What if the vortex or whatever she saw was a natural wormhole that leads closer to Earth and the explosion was not her ship blowing up, but instead was her ship entering the wormhole?


If that is the case, I am so quitting the show.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

The cloud vortex resembling the Eye of Jupiter mandala was all in Starbuck's head. When Hotdog was flying around above and Starbuck flew out of it, it was a normal dirty gray and brown colouring.

Additionally, I do not see any correlation with the starburst patter of her Viper exploding and the iconography of the Eye of Jupiter...

[Azazal]

Additionally, I do not see any correlation with the starburst patter of her Viper exploding and the iconography of the Eye of Jupiter...

Nope, not saying her explosion was linked or meant to look like the eye, just that is looked too uniform and even. Other vipers have blow up in pieces that continued in the direction of travel, Starbuck's went off in a nice 4th of July firework pattern.

[Hobot]

Guys you should listen to the RDM podcast. It sounds as if he's really killed off Starbuck and we won't be seeing her again.

Also make sure you listen to the end of it because it's hilarious.


It turns out that the ship Adama destroyed at the end was an actual museum piece worth hundreds of thousands that they were only renting; it was totally unscripted!

[Vympel]

It turns out that the ship Adama destroyed at the end was an actual museum piece worth hundreds of thousands that they were only renting; it was totally unscripted!

That's going to cost them.

And come on, as if we won't see Starbuck again. All that "destiny" talk, the painting, etc- it's meaningless without her coming back at some time in the future. Possibly not as a member of the main cast, though.

[Trytostaydead]

It turns out that the ship Adama destroyed at the end was an actual museum piece worth hundreds of thousands that they were only renting; it was totally unscripted!

I wonder what the unedited footage of that would be. The art director screaming, "OH FUCK! NO! STOP!!!!"

[JME2]

Maybe that explains why the series is only getting 13 episodes next season; Olmos' act of destruction ate up the budget...

[Hobot]

And come on, as if we won't see Starbuck again. All that "destiny" talk, the painting, etc- it's meaningless without her coming back at some time in the future. Possibly not as a member of the main cast, though.

I know and I'm still kind of confused by it, but after listening to the podcast I'm pretty convinced that there won't be any magical resurrection.

Maybe her death will end up revealing something unexpected that helps point the way to earth...

[Gil Hamilton]

That's going to cost them.

And come on, as if we won't see Starbuck again. All that "destiny" talk, the painting, etc- it's meaningless without her coming back at some time in the future. Possibly not as a member of the main cast, though.

Actually, I think from the sound of it they really did kill her. That's good stuff, because her death seems to make sense now.

[Knife]

My thought on that is we might be seeing the good gods or angles in Leoben form. Makes a bit of sense, though I guess that means Kara's going to be Jesus Christ or something but...

Why not?... Moore's made everyone else female.

What do you mean by "good" gods, though? Are you talking about the gods of the Colonials?

Yeah, the twelve gods of Kobol (thirteen if you count the Iblis character that moore doesn't use ). If the Iblis character can have angles or appears himself as multiple visions as angles, then why can't or shouldn't the other twelve.

[Haruko]

It turns out that the ship Adama destroyed at the end was an actual museum piece worth hundreds of thousands that they were only renting; it was totally unscripted!

If only Mr. Olmos' performance caused large sums of cash to spontaneously form around him. The debt would be paid off and much more.

Anyways, I thought this episode was beautiful.

5/5

[Uraniun235]

Starbuck totally loses it and kills herself. Awesome.

[Master of Ossus]

I am not buying into the speculation that the Heavy Raider was real, Kara was experiencing very serious hallucinations when she wasn't in the cockpit. It stands to reason that these hallucinations wouldn't just vanish when she strapped herself into a Viper. This is to speak nothing of the fact that this phantom raider was never seen by anyone besides Kara, didn't show up on Dradis (despite that Vipers did), and was apparently agile enough to evade pursuit by a Viper flown by one of the best pilots to ever have been. Although we the audience saw the Raider, we also saw all the rest of Kara's hallucinations too, but that doesn't make them real.

If the Raider were not real, then why would Kara's Viper have exploded? It had clearly suffered actual damage in an actual collision. Lee's fighter (admittedly the better model) was fine at the same altitude and undergoing the same stresses, except for the collision.

[Gil Hamilton]

If the Raider were not real, then why would Kara's Viper have exploded? It had clearly suffered actual damage in an actual collision. Lee's fighter (admittedly the better model) was fine at the same altitude and undergoing the same stresses, except for the collision.

It's certainly possible that since they were in a gas giant that the Lee's clearly more aerodynamic and modern fighter was better designed to endure the stresses at that depth than the old school Viper. It's possible that the Viper Mk. VII can take it, while the Mk II broke up when Kara nose dived, or Lee did a saner manuever in order to get to that altitude and thus wasn't under the same stress.