C&C3 Demo

[Stark]

In AU they say March 23.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Rather then putting their missile in the back of their base where I would have to wade through it, it was off to the side, and right after they swarmed me with a shitload of those damn avatars...

Oh, is it bad that I destroyed the temple of nod with his own avatar mechs?

[Ritterin Sophia]

And I don't know who said you can only fire the nod missile once, but I don't think it's true.

They were speaking of either the original C&C or RA Missiles, however, they were wrong anyhow.

[AniThyng]

People that dislike it play games to watch stuff happen, not command troops. They should play real time battle watching.

This is kinda funny - logically then the ultimate RTS graphics should be 2d wireframes, to minimize graphics lag and maximize clickability

[Covenant]

And I don't know who said you can only fire the nod missile once, but I don't think it's true.

They were speaking of either the original C&C or RA Missiles, however, they were wrong anyhow.

Singleplayer Campaign mode, not Multiplayer.

[Companion Cube]

This concerns the retail version rather than the demo, but the linked article mentions the following:

We also threw in a little secret that might come in handy when you have an AI ally. If you drop a beacon on the battlefield, all AI allies will automatically assemble a team and send them to attack the area near the beacon. This will allow you to call for help from your robo-buddies when you really need it. You can drop additional beacons to move them along if you need help later.

I don't remember how long I've been waiting for that feature. It also has more information on the differences between the various AI personalities in the full game. I've noticed you can change the computer's personality in the pre-game menu in the same way you change your faction, but do these work in the demo?

[LaserRifleofDoom]

The ion cannon looks very impressive, but its blast radius isn't bigger than the Nod missile. And I don't know who said you can only fire the nod missile once, but I don't think it's true.

That said, come'on release date! I wanna see what the Scrin are like!

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not much of a fan of superweapons. I preferred the more smale scale damage they did in Tiberian Sun, where they were more of a nusance, but if you played it right you could use it tactically to open the way for a main force. Only plaed C&C1 on N64. Lesson Learned: Don't play RTS on consoles.

Also, I wish Nod had better artillary. I really really do. The SpArt was why I played Nod in the first place. Then I realized that Kane is cool.

Edit: And yes, it appears that the personalities work in the demo. I've played against balanced and turtles so far (downloaded it yesterday). Gonna do a steamroller tonight.

[Companion Cube]

Just got schooled by a Medium Steamroller. I think I'll need the training wheels on for any future engagements, the AI isn't shy about massing flame tanks and Avatars.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Just got schooled by a Medium Steamroller. I think I'll need the training wheels on for any future engagements, the AI isn't shy about massing flame tanks and Avatars.

yes, because when I had those flame tanks and Avvy's swarming and focusing on my buildings, and any ground units I would run near them. (like infantry,) they compeltely ignored my airwing, which I left hovering in a defensive posture. Boom, no more flame tanks, and their target priority was my buildings, my infantry, my panthers, etc

they completly ignored my infantry ladened APCs and bloodhounds that were macross missile deathing them, along with my 12 orcas, now after this wave came through, I netted 5 captured fully upgraded Avatars, which I snuck into their base.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

How does one capture units? Engineer?

[Companion Cube]

How does one capture units? Engineer?

Yes, engineers can reanimate Avatar hulks, though mine never seem to reach the things fast enough; I don't know if they disappear after a certain length of time or if they're destroyed in the crossfire, but I don't get to net one very often. It didn't help that my radar was down and my turrets were rendered inoperable by intermittant nuclear strikes and suicide attacks.

yes, because when I had those flame tanks and Avvy's swarming and focusing on my buildings, and any ground units I would run near them. (like infantry,) they compeltely ignored my airwing, which I left hovering in a defensive posture. Boom, no more flame tanks, and their target priority was my buildings, my infantry, my panthers, etc

they completly ignored my infantry ladened APCs and bloodhounds that were macross missile deathing them, along with my 12 orcas, now after this wave came through, I netted 5 captured fully upgraded Avatars, which I snuck into their base.

The best thing is that infantry garrisoned in APCs gain their veterancy bonuses like their comrades on foot, so you eventually end up with a horde of APCs spewing red missiles at anything in sight.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yeah, my system started to lag, as red death from a about 30 APCs met his tank/avvy hoard, I lost 3 powerplants and 12 defensive structures, a refinery, and a redundant armoury.

[Covenant]

The computer hates Engineers with a burning passion, and will take extreme measures to lay waste to them. They will gleefully mow down engineering teams that run towards downed hulks.

Sadly, the goddamn Mechs are too easy to kill, in my opinion. It makes it way, way too risky to use them. Unless the strike is effective (or you pull the avatar away in time) they're going to have a chance to scavange your mechs. You can scavange the Juggernauts, but who really cares? You can't use it's long-range bombard ability, so it's really not nearly as useful. Plus, they're way in the back while Avatars are in the front.

It really is just more evidence that while Nod's mechs are indeed powerful, they're really just support. I guess that leaves... what? Stealth tanks as the mainline fighting tank for Nod?

[LaserRifleofDoom]

The computer hates Engineers with a burning passion, and will take extreme measures to lay waste to them. They will gleefully mow down engineering teams that run towards downed hulks.

Sadly, the goddamn Mechs are too easy to kill, in my opinion. It makes it way, way too risky to use them. Unless the strike is effective (or you pull the avatar away in time) they're going to have a chance to scavange your mechs. You can scavange the Juggernauts, but who really cares? You can't use it's long-range bombard ability, so it's really not nearly as useful. Plus, they're way in the back while Avatars are in the front.

It really is just more evidence that while Nod's mechs are indeed powerful, they're really just support. I guess that leaves... what? Stealth tanks as the mainline fighting tank for Nod?

I would say flame tanks, but they're even worse against armor in this game than they were in the previous ones. I guess you just have to use combined arms teams of scorpions and other stuff. Or not play Nod like GDI. Also, the beam tanks are supposedly good against armor, and they seem to have pretty good health themselves.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yeah, nod you have to use combined arms, and STEALTH

they have lots of good hit and run units perfect for setting up ambushes.

Oh and the AI DOES fall for the bait and switch with the holoarmies.

[Nephtys]

GDI's Mammoths are battering rams. They run in and crush defenses. The Nod Avatar is.. not. It's far more agile, and able to retreat quickly. It's able to absorb still 3 (barely 4) Obelisk Blasts, so it can run in, engage a front line, then retreat for repairs. It really can't compete with the Mammoth as a steamroller.

The Nod beam relay move is kinda useless as artillery though. But suicide bombers are nearly unstoppable. The only unit I can comprehend as able to kill them reliably are Zone Troopers or flame troops. Grenades'll never hit them, and they're largely immune to most portable anti-infy weapons available to GDI. Snipers may get them, but they can eat up mammoths and tanks like no tomorrow.

[LaserRifleofDoom]

Have you tried APCs? I find them to be very effective against infantry. I agree about the Nod artillary tho', it's just not effective... maybe if you could cloak the Venoms, but now it's only good if you can have a helicopter hovering over their base for a long time. And its no good against armor either.

[Beowulf]

Second the APC suggestion. APCs eat infantry in my experience. Also great against air, especially combined with mammoths. A half dozen of each really steamrollers.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

APCs are good, if you micro them you can drive circles around suicide squads chewing them up while your tanks move in to crush their Hands of Nod.

[Nephtys]

Second the APC suggestion. APCs eat infantry in my experience. Also great against air, especially combined with mammoths. A half dozen of each really steamrollers.

They don't fire fast enough to kill upgraded suicide squads. And the upgrade only costs 500. I tried. The best I could do with 1 APC vs 1 suicide squad is whack 1 of their bombers before he hit the thing the APC was trying to defend. It's not cost effective.

[Axis Kast]

I certainly have not enjoyed C&C:3 as much as C&C:G.

First of all, I feel as if I'm being short-changed in the amount of units available. Generals always seemed to have a proliferation for each side, especially after the Zero Hour expansion was rolled out. In my opinion, units make the game.

Second, the "General" powers are less impressive. I always appreciated that choosing a certain type of General dictated how one would have to play. And, sometimes, allowed access to unqiue units.

[AniThyng]

Second the APC suggestion. APCs eat infantry in my experience. Also great against air, especially combined with mammoths. A half dozen of each really steamrollers.

They don't fire fast enough to kill upgraded suicide squads. And the upgrade only costs 500. I tried. The best I could do with 1 APC vs 1 suicide squad is whack 1 of their bombers before he hit the thing the APC was trying to defend. It's not cost effective.

Would this be an APC with or without a squad of riflemen inside?

[Ritterin Sophia]

I certainly have not enjoyed C&C:3 as much as C&C:G

Okay, let's see why...

First of all, I feel as if I'm being short-changed in the amount of units available. Generals always seemed to have a proliferation for each side, especially after the Zero Hour expansion was rolled out. In my opinion, units make the game.

I can get five Mammoth Tanks out of one War Factory faster than it takes me to get the same amount of Paladins.

Second, the "General" powers are less impressive. I always appreciated that choosing a certain type of General dictated how one would have to play. And, sometimes, allowed access to unqiue units.

Perhaps you didn't notice but Zero Hour is an expansion, so for a good comparison, you need to remove it from the picture.

[Axis Kast]

Okay, let's see why...

Yes. Let's.

I can get five Mammoth Tanks out of one War Factory faster than it takes me to get the same amount of Paladins.

I'm not referring to the speed of the game. I'm refering to the degree of choice available to the player.

In Total Annihilation, for example, it was gratifying to know that one could choose to invade an enemy base with tanks that travelled overland, were hauled about in air transports, crossed the sea on hovercraft, or were themselves amphibious. Choice. C&C:3 has little of it.

Perhaps you didn't notice but Zero Hour is an expansion, so for a good comparison, you need to remove it from the picture.

C&C: Generals was a 6. Zero Hour made it a 7.5. I expect C&C3 to be an 8, not a 7.

[Darth Wong]

I hate to agree with Kast about anything, but I have to agree that the actual gameplay is a step down from C&C Generals, not a step up. Having Kane return is a big bonus, but the gameplay itself feels like a regression back to RA2.