Non-crappy CRPGs

[Rawtooth]

I'm looking into picking up a CRPG at some point so I was wondering what are the real gems out there as well as their merits. I would prefer to avoid any illegal methods of procurement, so many of the older games I haven't played, such as Baldur's Gate, Fallout, and Icewind Dale are off the table sadly.

I have KOTOR 1&2, Jade Empire, and Morrowind. I was thinking about one of the Neverwinter Nights, Oblivion, or Dreamfall but I'd be open to any other suggestions.

[Stark]

You know you can get a big compilation with all the Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, etc etc D&D CRPGs in one thing these days? At least in AU.

[The Grim Squeaker]

You should be able to procure Baldurs Gate & Fallout legally (Though rarer games such as Planescape Torment would be a problem), have you checked a decent sized Computer stores budget bin? Or Amazon perhaps?

What are you looking for exactly? Speech, plot, dialogue, graphics, combat, magic, length, characters, open ended plot, linearity...

At Any rate the Original NWN ain't bad, but the plot was a bit weak, though "Hordes of the Underdark" (Expansion pack) was fun.
I'm still only 20% through the sequel [Neverwinter Nights 2], but it is pretty fun.

Oblivion is very pretty but lacks even a fraction of the plot or dialogue of the Black Isle or Bioware games.

Dreamfall is an adventure game (Unless I'm mistaken)

[loomer]

Dreamfall is an adventure game, yes, but I love it. It has a story that leaves those of Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, and the like, in the dust. As does the first installment of the series, The Longest Journey.

[PainRack]

Oblivion is very pretty but lacks even a fraction of the plot or dialogue of the Black Isle or Bioware games.

Not exactly. There is a lot of nice dialogue and easter eggs....... its just that these have no relevance to the story and take AGES to discover, not to mention a level of immersion that the game doesn't encourage.

hanging around a tavern or the mage guild university just to hear someone say he's so sad that the Levitation Act was passed is worthless.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

You can get Planescape: Torment on GameTap.

And if you play one CRPG in your lifetime, make it Planescape: Torment.

[Sharpshooter]

Wizardry 8's pretty neat if you're into the more masochistic and hardcore types of games. I'll also second Neverwinter Nights (though if'ya ask me, the core game had the better storyline among other things).

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Wizardry 8 is very nice, although pretty hardcore. Wizardry 7 is also excellent, but it's pretty old now (avoid Wizardry Gold, which is Wiz 7 repackaged with 'upgraded' cutscenes that don't hold a candle to the originals). Neverwinter Nights 2 has a fabulous single player campaign and is very modern and pretty, but it takes a decently powerful system to run and it's very rough around the edges. There isn't much community content yet, either. The first NWN has thousands of hours of quality modules released by the community, and the expansions are good, too. The original campaign is dreadful, though, don't even bother. But I'd say that you should definitely try to pick up Fallout and Fallout 2 if you've never played them, and Planescape: Torment if you can get your hands on it. Baldur's Gate is good, but Baldur's Gate 2 is just too damn long. It's like 100 hours of gameplay, good if you're the obsessive type, but otherwise you'll never finish it.

[Rawtooth]

You know you can get a big compilation with all the Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, etc etc D&D CRPGs in one thing these days? At least in AU.

Amazon only has it listed under the UK section when I looked, and they don't allow out of country shipping for electronics.

And DEATH, I live in Alaska. Our computer store selection is pretty shitty up here There is one more good place in town that I can check, but otherwise I haven't found either Baldur's Gate or Fallout.

So I've got some votes for Neverwinter Nights and Dreamfall, as well as some of the oldies. I'll look into them, thanks for the advice.

Any recommendations for modules for Neverwinter, especially any good adaptions of older AD&D ones?

[Graeme Dice]

There is one more good place in town that I can check, but otherwise I haven't found either Baldur's Gate or Fallout.

Then buy it off of Ebay.

[weemadando]

Arcanum.

Arcanum.

Arcanum.

Arcanum.

Arcanum.

Are you getting this yet?

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Arcanum has a good story, but the combat is rather broken, especially on turn based mode. There were only two useful offensive spells (Harm and Disintegrate), and in most combats both teams had enough AP's to kill the other team in a single turn and still have time to have a barbeque cookout with their carcasses. It was also rather frustrating to go from Fallout where a starting character could be at least semi-capable to Arcanum (which ostensibly used the SPECIAL system) where a character had to go through a lot of leveling before being good at anything. I did like Arcanum despite its serious flaws, but I wouldn't really put it on the same level as Fallout, P:ST, Wiz7, etc.

[weemadando]

Arcanum kicks the shit out of everything but Fallout (and even then its close) in terms of having a wideopen story which allows you to develop your character the way you want it to - no character is broken and I never encountered a scenario where I broke the plot of the game - the developers really saw most of the insane options coming.

[Jade Falcon]

If you check something like EBay, the White Label budget range released Fallout, Fallout 2 and Fallout:Tactics (a tactical combat game) in one package.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Arcanum kicks the shit out of everything but Fallout (and even then its close) in terms of having a wideopen story which allows you to develop your character the way you want it to - no character is broken and I never encountered a scenario where I broke the plot of the game - the developers really saw most of the insane options coming.

Maybe they patched it after I played it, but I remember 40 damage Harm spam and Disintegrate for the tougher enemies, which can't miss and automatically kills anything in one hit. And I remember my friend's character using that shortsword to attack like 15 times in one turn and clear the whole screen of enemies before they even got their turn. I was also disappointed with how weak the revolvers were.

[Rightous Fist Of Heaven]

You havent played Fallout 1 & 2? You're missing out on two real PC RPG legends there. You should be able to find them from 'net stores or alternatively from budget bins of gaming shops. It might take a little looking around but its definitely worth it if you find them.

[DesertFly]

Ebay has the Fallout collection for nice and cheap; around $15.

[weemadando]

Arcanum kicks the shit out of everything but Fallout (and even then its close) in terms of having a wideopen story which allows you to develop your character the way you want it to - no character is broken and I never encountered a scenario where I broke the plot of the game - the developers really saw most of the insane options coming.

Maybe they patched it after I played it, but I remember 40 damage Harm spam and Disintegrate for the tougher enemies, which can't miss and automatically kills anything in one hit. And I remember my friend's character using that shortsword to attack like 15 times in one turn and clear the whole screen of enemies before they even got their turn. I was also disappointed with how weak the revolvers were.

The later patches did a LOT of reworking of the combat balance, but the first character I played through as was a goddamn charlatan with virtually no combat skills. Thankfully, to offset that, being a goddamn charlatan I had a posse to rival most rappers due to enormous charisma and other "social" bonuses.

[Jade Falcon]

Ebay has the Fallout collection for nice and cheap; around $15.

It's a worthwhile purchase, Tactics is an okay game but not an RPG, still if it's cheap its worth getting the whole lot.

Bear in mind to get patches. There's a few dedicated Fallout sites like No Mutants Allowed and Duck and Cover.

If you end up with the European version, you WILL need the 'Children' patch for Fallout 2, if you don't, some quests are unsolvable.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Maybe they patched it after I played it, but I remember 40 damage Harm spam and Disintegrate for the tougher enemies, which can't miss and automatically kills anything in one hit. And I remember my friend's character using that shortsword to attack like 15 times in one turn and clear the whole screen of enemies before they even got their turn. I was also disappointed with how weak the revolvers were.

The later patches did a LOT of reworking of the combat balance, but the first character I played through as was a goddamn charlatan with virtually no combat skills. Thankfully, to offset that, being a goddamn charlatan I had a posse to rival most rappers due to enormous charisma and other "social" bonuses.

Maybe I'll give it another go someday, then. I really dug the story and presentation, I just hated the combat system.

[Drooling Iguana]

Dreamfall is an adventure game, not an RPG. Also, it sucks. Awkward interface, characters that move like arthritic puppets, a "fighting" component that makes Omikron: The Nomad Soul'd fighting parts look like Soul Calibur, and a storyline that consists entirely of a bunch of uninteresting characters running through the same cramped areas over and over again and making tedious, preachy speeches at each other while events that you have next to no involvement in and can't bring yourself to care about happen in the background.

Now, the first game in the series, The Longest Journey, was imho one of the greatest games of all time, and should be played by everyone, but Dreamfall redefined "suck."

I don't really have any input in regards to CRPGs, since I've never really liked the genre all that much, but stay well away from Dreamfall. It's just that awful.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Planescape Torment is a terrifying game. The sheer amount of content is just crazy. I spent about an hour and a half just poking around in the starting area.

[Jade Falcon]

Dreamfall is an adventure game, not an RPG. Also, it sucks. Awkward interface, characters that move like arthritic puppets, a "fighting" component that makes Omikron: The Nomad Soul'd fighting parts look like Soul Calibur, and a storyline that consists entirely of a bunch of uninteresting characters running through the same cramped areas over and over again and making tedious, preachy speeches at each other while events that you have next to no involvement in and can't bring yourself to care about happen in the background.

Now, the first game in the series, The Longest Journey, was imho one of the greatest games of all time, and should be played by everyone, but Dreamfall redefined "suck."

I don't really have any input in regards to CRPGs, since I've never really liked the genre all that much, but stay well away from Dreamfall. It's just that awful.

I wouldn't have went so far as to say that Dreamfall sucked, but it was terribly disappointing in comparison to its older prequel. The Longest Journey was an engrossing game, and the play area of Dreamfall was pretty small. As you say, you spent more time backtracking in the game, plus the whole underground maze section was the most unenjoyable part of the game.