Civil War #7 - Spoilers

[KrauserKrauser]

If they kill off Cap, which by the relesases to CNN give great credence to, then they have no appreciation for how horribly they ended CW and that this is the last thing we want to see.

Who gives a shit, maybe in another generation they'll learn something, but probably not.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'm still holding out hope this is all some feint before revealing the true 'ending' of the Civil War story arc. I mean like something else will happen to clear everything up, and somehow, someway Iron Douche gets his.

But i've been a Marvel fanboy since sometime in the nineties when Rob Liefield was still a hot property, so i'll still probably believe that a year from now lol


Like i said, lolz aside, DC is still got my attention with their miniseries. Maybe i'll convert.

[Battlehymn Republic]

Will U.S. Agent take the mantle?

[JME2]

I'm still holding out hope this is all some feint before revealing the true 'ending' of the Civil War story arc. I mean like something else will happen to clear everything up, and somehow, someway Iron Douche gets his.

Again, Bendis has been hinting at it, saying that both Avengers titles (and that's not counting the new, third Initiative title) are dealing with the conspiracy storyline -- though neither of them will realize it at first -- and that the payoff will put the last few years in perspective.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Will U.S. Agent take the mantle?

He's going to be goofing around in Canada with Beta Ray Bill in Omega Flight.

[JME2]

Will U.S. Agent take the mantle?

He's going to be goofing around in Canada with Beta Ray Bill in Omega Flight.

As I see it, that leaves Punisher, Bucky, or Patriot.

[Praxis]

Does anyone know what comic this happens in?

[JME2]

Does anyone know what comic this happens in?

Captain America # 25, on sale this week.

[Edward Yee]

Ohh, have a better ending but then drag it -- and correspondingly, subplots / otherwise inexplicable scenes like Punnie holding the Cap mask in CW #7 -- out until many issues and dollars in the future... *shakes head at Marvel*

I'll wait for Runaways #26 and the next Punnie comics.

[The Cooler King]

I'm still holding out hope this is all some feint before revealing the true 'ending' of the Civil War story arc. I mean like something else will happen to clear everything up, and somehow, someway Iron Douche gets his.

But i've been a Marvel fanboy since sometime in the nineties when Rob Liefield was still a hot property, so i'll still probably believe that a year from now lol


Like i said, lolz aside, DC is still got my attention with their miniseries. Maybe i'll convert.

Of course, there's still the VERY slight possibility that Stark is behind it, having Cap 'killed' in a public way to get him out of the limelight so he can come back at the right moment (kind of a super-powered 'Witness Protection Program').

From what I can tell (admittedly, I don't have all the books, so I can't check everything), almost all of Stark's actions have been motivated by the fact that he's predicted what will happen under the SHRA, and has actively inserted himself into the process to defuse an even greater threat coming down the road. He knew that he would be vilified and hated, even by his friends, and yet he did it anyway, because it was the lesser of two evils. Supposedly.

<sarcasm>Of course, making a few hundred million dollars and having the adoration of the public doesn't hurt, does it?</sarcasm>

[Edward Yee]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...*snort* Yeah, and this is the same company that has all but brought back Ben Parker.

By which you'd specifically mean 616's own, I assume? (Since I don't count the alternate-timeline Ben who's now a hobo in 616.)

[Edward Yee]

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else thought it, but when Sally and Ben told Tony their 'admiration' for his goal and dedication to it, my mind had their voices dripping in sarcasm and damning with false praise...

[The Cooler King]

Incidentally, I don't know if anyone else thought it, but when Sally and Ben told Tony their 'admiration' for his goal and dedication to it, my mind had their voices dripping in sarcasm and damning with false praise...

That's exactly what I was thinking. I was also thinking that Sally was being more than a little sarcastic with the 'MySpace' and NASCAR references, when talking to Cap.

[18-Till-I-Die]

No it's just bad writing. Obviously the writer thinks that Cap is outdated and Iron Man's morally apothetic 'heroism' is the way of the future. Look at the way Ben whoever reacted after she interviewed Cap.

"I thought we were interviewing him not yelling at him."

Combined with body language (what little can be seen of it in a comic) and the expressions she has and her response "Changed my mind, now it's opinion peice", it's fairly obvious what was really felt.


And i believe Iron Prick's "motives" about as much as i believe Lex Luthor really does think he's fighting to protect mankind from Superman. Its one of those "Yeah...RIIIIGHT" things where you know it's bullshit but you cant directly prove it other than to point out how disingenuous it all is.

[The Cooler King]

And i believe Iron Prick's "motives" about as much as i believe Lex Luthor really does think he's fighting to protect mankind from Superman. Its one of those "Yeah...RIIIIGHT" things where you know it's bullshit but you cant directly prove it other than to point out how disingenuous it all is.

I can see your point. Still, it's the only way I can reconcile the established personality of my favorite characters and the events (especially the aftermath) of Civil War and have it all make ANY sort of sense. A fanboy can dream, I suppose...

[Tsyroc]

I can see your point. Still, it's the only way I can reconcile the established personality of my favorite characters and the events (especially the aftermath) of Civil War and have it all make ANY sort of sense. A fanboy can dream, I suppose...

There's still Ultimate Tony Stark / Iron Man.

Plus the animated movie was pretty good.

[Battlehymn Republic]

What if Punisher did it?

[Edward Yee]

No it's just bad writing. Obviously the writer thinks that Cap is outdated and Iron Man's morally apothetic 'heroism' is the way of the future. Look at the way Ben whoever reacted after she interviewed Cap.

I didn't take such an opinion of the writer into consideration when I first evaluated Sally's reaction to Cap, as I'd only read so far. As for the interviewing, it actually seemed better than her previous, by-herself "interview" with the Cap where IIRC he got even less opportunity to go at length and really ambushed him. (Re: #11, I would nitpick that I don't recall Cap at all acting like it'd happened. It should be noted that Sally seemed to have started her turn a lot earlier than Frontline #11, btw.)

Cooler King, do you feel that Ben and Sally actually switched places/roles over the course of the series? My impression was that Ben and Sally were (if nothing else) rubbing in Tony's face just how much they figured out of his whole "master plan."

[The Cooler King]

Cooler King, do you feel that Ben and Sally actually switched places/roles over the course of the series? My impression was that Ben and Sally were (if nothing else) rubbing in Tony's face just how much they figured out of his whole "master plan."

That was the impression I got. I must admit, I didn't read #11 until a few days ago, and I haven't read it again since I practically threw it down after that first reading. My interpretation may be colored by those impressions, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Thinking back on it, though, they may not have changed places as much as shifted towrads each other to come to an agreement, as you mentioned with them rubbing Stark's plans in his face. Sally started out on Cap's side, at least philosophically, although she saw how little his tactics were really accomplishing. Tony may have won the war (and the hearts and minds of the average folks), but his actions in winning said war (as uncovered by Sally and Ben) were, to put it kindly, less than ethical. Sally and Ben started out on opposite sides, but the stuff they found out brought them more towards each other's viewpoint.

On a side note, I recently re-read the Spider-Man issues where Tony and Peter go to Washington. The one sequence near the end, where Tony poitns out the Lincoln Memorial and explains Lincoln to Peter, went a long way, for me, towards providing at least lip service to Stark's actions. He's always been the type where the ends justify the means (Armor Wars, the decision to off the Kree Supreme Intelligence at the end of Galactic Storm, even his alienation of Rhodey and the eventual creation of War Machine), so even this semi-flimsy rationale at least tried to explain the vast chasm between Tony's established character and the actions he's undertaken of late.

[Manus Celer Dei]

Will U.S. Agent take the mantle?

He's going to be goofing around in Canada with Beta Ray Bill in Omega Flight.

As I see it, that leaves Punisher, Bucky, or Patriot.

Since Punisher picked up Cap's mask at the end and the solicits for one of the upcoming issues of War Journal mention him using a new costume/identity, I reckon it'll be him.

[LadyTevar]

He's going to be goofing around in Canada with Beta Ray Bill in Omega Flight.

As I see it, that leaves Punisher, Bucky, or Patriot.

Since Punisher picked up Cap's mask at the end and the solicits for one of the upcoming issues of War Journal mention him using a new costume/identity, I reckon it'll be him.

No. Just... NO.
We do not need Punisher-America. That's just going way to far with the Symbolism of of Captain America. Not because Capt never used a gun; he did plenty of shooting in WWII, against Nazis and Japanese troops alike. But that was War... what the Punisher does isn't war, it's pure, hateful revenge. No.. that's not what Capt America is about.

[Stark]

It's awesome that the idea that there will be no Captain America for a while while he recovers in Avalon is anathema. Surely someone has to 'take on the mantle' or whatever, and pretend to be Captain America. For... some reason. Wait - SALES.

[TheDarkling]

No. Just... NO.
We do not need Punisher-America. That's just going way to far with the Symbolism of of Captain America. Not because Capt never used a gun; he did plenty of shooting in WWII, against Nazis and Japanese troops alike. But that was War... what the Punisher does isn't war, it's pure, hateful revenge. No.. that's not what Capt America is about.

We keep getting told Captain America was out of touch with modern America, I'm guessing the message is that an aggressive, murdering sociopath is more representative.

[The Yosemite Bear]

great those fucknuts are taking more cues from Faux programming, punisher as the new jack bauer....

[DPDarkPrimus]

What if Punisher did it?

What, shot Captain America?

Not a chance. Cap beat the hell out of him in Punisher War Journal, both after he shot those C-list villains and also in a flashback when he was still in the military, and neither time did he raise a hand to fight back.