B5 Shadows vs Empire

[Darth Wong]

yr race has the ability to communicate across vast distances too, real time, observed almost everytime ISN news is on.

I don't mean to get too involved in this thread since I'm not a B5 expert, but that's the funniest goddamned thing I've heard all day.

They can watch ISN, therefore they have realtime communication across "vast distances"? Never mind the fact that their idea of "vast distances" (10 ly from Earth to B5) is the SW civilization's idea of a local phone call. Think of the terrible logic inherent in the above quote: is ISN a two-way communication? No. It's a one-way broadcast, not a two-way conversation. Now, think very carefully: if a one-way broadcast had a delay, would you notice? No. How would you? It is impossible to tell whether a one-way broadcast is transmitted in "real-time" (normally defined by telecommunications companies as less than a 1/4-second delay between sending and receiving) because of the lack of two-way interactivity.

Holy fuck, I can't believe I had to actually explain that.

[Darth Wong]

Mind you, I've seen two-way comms between B5 and Centauri Prime (Sheridan talking to Mollari), so I'd agree that they can do realtime communications over ~100 ly (although I reiterate that 75 ly is hardly a "vast distance" by SW standards, so the original poster's point is still deeply flawed), but I just thought that it was too damned funny to use ISN as proof, and I couldn't help but say something.

[Omega-13]

Most of the points have been countered by other posters, but this caught my attention
"guess what teeps like those on lytas level can do to electronic systems (see season 5 ep "wheel of fire") "

at what distance was this achieved, a few feet? a few miles?

Also, about blocking specific frequencies so that jump points can't be openned, you do realise how much jamming the Imperials do right?


Also like to comment about the technology, being studied, and what not,
sure the shadows can study imperial technology, just have to capture it first

[adam warlock]

Holy fuck, I can't believe I had to actually explain that.

well forgive me.. perhaps im just used to having the idea that b5 uses ansibles to convey messages, back and forth, instantaneously through their communications systems...hence my assumption of ISN broadcasts reaching various colonies simultaneously.

24 May 1995
The majority of those questions are best left to Ron to one day
explain in a tech manual, as he has more of the hard-science info at his
fingertips than I do. Certainly, both tachyon and ansibles are part of
an instantaneous communications system. And yes, there was some amount of conscription during the wars.

jms

though i cant see tachyons and ansibles being both part of the same communications systems, since tachyons communication systems will still be limited to its speed (though ftl)...unless tachyons are used for relaying messages through (perhaps smaller) distances to areas where ansibles are not available... but nevertheless their system was said to be instantaneous.

"guess what teeps like those on lytas level can do to electronic systems (see season 5 ep "wheel of fire") "

at what distance was this achieved, a few feet? a few miles?

again in genius loci she was neutralising the electrochemical reactions in each cell/bacterium of the hive mind, and breaking them. the hive mind was buried deep below the planetary crust.. a gathering of cells/bacterium spanning miles in length. though its not robot, i cant see her having much problems with their electrical systems.

Also, about blocking specific frequencies so that jump points can't be openned, you do realise how much jamming the Imperials do right?

that was with regards to use of jump gates.. not the formation of jump points.
the id frequencies were locked out thus preventing use of jump gates to form jump points.

Also like to comment about the technology, being studied, and what not,
sure the shadows can study imperial technology, just have to capture it first

scouting vessels going near zhadum.. crew members subdued by the eye...

[SirNitram]

*Snicker* B5 has ansibles? What's next? They have Gridfire?

[Omega-13]

again in genius loci she was neutralising the electrochemical reactions in each cell/bacterium of the hive mind, and breaking them. the hive mind was buried deep below the planetary crust.. a gathering of cells/bacterium spanning miles in length. though its not robot, i cant see her having much problems with their electrical systems.

so what works on organic, is assumed to work on artificial, oook.....

scouting vessels going near zhadum.. crew members subdued by the eye...

probe droids now have crew members? If a probe droid is about to get captured, and or is detected, it destroys itself

[XaLEv]

*Snicker* B5 has ansibles? What's next? They have Gridfire?

That was certainly implied in the JMS quote, which can be found here. A JMSNews search for gridfire returns nothing.

[SirNitram]

*Snicker* B5 has ansibles? What's next? They have Gridfire?

That was certainly implied in the JMS quote, which can be found here. A JMSNews search for gridfire returns nothing.

Concession granted. I saw ansible and I immediately thought of Ender's Game and their Philote-based FTL comm. COOL! JMS reads Scott Card as well!

[XaLEv]

Perhaps. IIRC, Card got the ansible from Le Guin. JMS could have gotten it from either.

[Master of Ossus]

TACHYONS DO NOT EXIST, GODDAMNIT! That is why we now believe in String Theory (one of the reasons).

Tachyons have never existed, and can never exist. They were a bi-product of inadequate theories and understandings of several quantum mechanical phenomena. They have always been impossible, and they have now been shown to be non-existent.

[XaLEv]

Well that was random. What exactly prompted this outburst?

[Master of Ossus]

though i cant see tachyons and ansibles being both part of the same communications systems, since tachyons communication systems will still be limited to its speed (though ftl)...unless tachyons are used for relaying messages through (perhaps smaller) distances to areas where ansibles are not available... but nevertheless their system was said to be instantaneous.

This did. I cannot stand by and allow String Theory to be completely butchered by know-nothings who live in a world in which B5 technology is even comparable to SW tech. Tachyons do not exist. They have never existed. They were only ever used to demonstrate our lack of understanding of some quantum-mechanical properties.

[SirNitram]

In any sci-fi where something travels FTL, there are by definition tachyons. Unless someone's changed the definition, all it means is a particle moving faster than Light itself.

[adam warlock]

This did. I cannot stand by and allow String Theory to be completely butchered by know-nothings who live in a world in which B5 technology is even comparable to SW tech. Tachyons do not exist. They have never existed. They were only ever used to demonstrate our lack of understanding of some quantum-mechanical properties.

AHEM.. we are discussing a sci fi series right..

ansibles, and star trek particles of the week exist in the real world too.

[Durandal]

Tachyons aren't necessarily impossible; they just operate on essentially reverse principles from the bradyonic part of the universe (as velocity increases, kinetic energy and momentum decrease).

However, there is really no solid theoretical basis (no, the "ultra long scissors" demonstration doesn't count) for them, and they aren't required for the explanation of any known phenomenon.

However, to be fair, String Theory is still considered a fringe theory mostly because it involves energies so fantastically high that it's just not possible to run an experiment to test the theory. It explains a lot, but it's not really there as a mainstream theory, yet.

[Master of Ossus]

But tachyons do not. It is unfortunate that so many sci-fis jumped so readily on the tachyon beam when they were looking for FTL particles, because Tachyons never existed in the first place, they are merely bi-products of an incomplete understanding of a few principles. They cannot exist, and they should not exist, even in sci-fi shows.

[Master of Ossus]

Tachyons aren't necessarily impossible; they just operate on essentially reverse principles from the bradyonic part of the universe (as velocity increases, kinetic energy and momentum decrease).

However, there is really no solid theoretical basis (no, the "ultra long scissors" demonstration doesn't count) for them, and they aren't required for the explanation of any known phenomenon.

However, to be fair, String Theory is still considered a fringe theory mostly because it involves energies so fantastically high that it's just not possible to run an experiment to test the theory. It explains a lot, but it's not really there as a mainstream theory, yet.

I'll give you that String Theory is a fringe theory because it cannot be tested, now, but I will not allow for tachyons to be even theoretically possible.

[David]

TACHYONS DO NOT EXIST, GODDAMNIT! That is why we now believe in String Theory (one of the reasons).

Tachyons have never existed, and can never exist. They were a bi-product of inadequate theories and understandings of several quantum mechanical phenomena. They have always been impossible, and they have now been shown to be non-existent.

Down boy, DOWN!!!

don't eat the other users!

[SirNitram]

I'll give you that String Theory is a fringe theory because it cannot be tested, now, but I will not allow for tachyons to be even theoretically possible.

Your humility is a lesson to us all.[/sarcasm]

In sci-fi, tachyons exist. Tachyons might still exist(If FTL is possible, anything moving FTL is a tachyon).

[Master of Ossus]

Sorry, everyone, I just hate it when people use nonsensical particles to make their favorite bits of sci-fi make sense when all they have to do is suspend disbelief.

BTW, String Theory also makes for a great power source. If you could cut cosmic threads, you could unleash tens of orders of magnitude more energy than matter-antimatter. Perhaps this is what the mysterious "hypermatter" is, or perhaps hypermatter is still further advanced.