Federation "Argo" vs. Naboo "Flash" Spee

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-01-03 11:34pm

King Tiger wrote:How about the speeder with a blaster cannon at the back (seen firing at TF droids)

That would be the Gian speeder. It's just a lighter version of the flash speeder, IIRC...

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-03 11:35pm

That would be the Gian speeder. It's just a lighter version of the flash speeder, IIRC...

Nope, its vice versa. The purple Gian speeders are more powerful, so says the ICS. I think they were both Flashes, but one was outfitted with an anti-armor gun, and the other anti-personel

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-04 01:41am

Typically smaller vehicles dedicated to larger ones will carry the larger vehicle's name only (lifeboats, for instance). And every TNG+ shuttle we've ever seen has been armed AFAIK.

Not that it matters to this debate

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-04 04:14am

Federation buggy:

Note the largely open design, with sheet metal protecting the engine and not much at all protecting the occupants. From the side, the driver is almost completely exposed, and the gunner is almost completely exposed from virtually ANY angle. Also note the rear gun and its near-useless field-of-fire restriction. Gun appeared to have the effect of a grenade launcher.

Naboo speeder:

Note the open-cockpit design which affords minimal protection but at least provides wraparound coverage below chest level; less of the occupant's body is exposed to fire from all angles. Also note the computer-controlled gun, probably meant for long-range accuracy.

It hits the nearest tank on the right side and you can see two huge chunks of armour being blown away from the blast. Note that the cross-section book shows that the blast hit the side of the cockpit, which is solid, inert armour plate. Plate thickness appears to be roughly 1/16 the height of a battle droid. If we assume 1.8m height for a battle droid, this is roughly 11 cm, or 4.5" thick armour plate. Judging from the level of damage, this gun could easily punch through much thicker armour than that.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-01-04 04:36am

Also note the two automatic weapons mounted on the sides of the speeder. If you're in front of this thing, you're looking at two auto-blasters and a pretty powerful anti-tank gun pointing at you. If the speeder is in retreat, the gunner could theoretically spin the gun all the way around (as long as everybody stays down once he starts pointing it backwards), because it's remote-controlled (not like Worf in that buggy, who would have to be hanging off the back of the buggy just to turn it sideways).

FaxModem1 · Post by **FaxModem1** » 2003-01-04 04:45am

Darth Wong wrote:

not like Worf in that buggy, who would have to be hanging off the back of the buggy just to turn it sideways).

Now that I would want to see, wouldn't it be really funny?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-01-04 04:46am

Hmm I seem to remember a scene from TPM where after the speeder destroys the tank, we get a top-down shot of it. In thatshot I beilievetwotanks are smoking. It could be thta teh blast damaged the second tank, similiar to the way it damaged all the nearby battle droids. Or it may have simply fired another shot.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-01-04 04:50am

Just to add some information about the 'Gian' speeder in that shot Lord Wong posted:

Features:

- two light repeating blasters
- one heavier blaster (that took out the tank)
- holographic tactical planning system for use by the two observers/specialists in the back
- pilot and gunner up the front
- reinforced hull capable of withstanding 'glancing' hits
- engines recessed in the hull to reduce frontal/rear area

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2003-01-04 06:00pm

The Argo would be dead before it knew the flash was even there. Things like a range advantage can be killer. Ask the guy with the flamethrower who got shot by the sniper

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-04 10:40pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:Hmm I seem to remember a scene from TPM where after the speeder destroys the tank, we get a top-down shot of it. In thatshot I beilievetwotanks are smoking. It could be thta teh blast damaged the second tank, similiar to the way it damaged all the nearby battle droids. Or it may have simply fired another shot.

The angle allowed for both tanks to be hit by different shots, but not for the first hit to go through and hit the second tank. The movie cuts away very quickly after the first hit. The speeder probably fired a second shot we did not see.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-04 10:47pm

Sr.mal wrote:The Argo would be dead before it knew the flash was even there. Things like a range advantage can be killer. Ask the guy with the flamethrower who got shot by the sniper

What evidence is there of a range advantage for either combatant?

Sr.mal · Post by **Sr.mal** » 2003-01-05 01:42am

There may be no evidence, but to put a short ranged anti-tank gun on something designed for hit and run tatics is like putting a lance on a helicopter as its main armament. The fact is anti-tank weapons mounted on a vehicles are generally meant to be used at long range not point blank. The only reason the shot in TPM was at point blank was because of the urban evironment. Also with energy weapons to more power that is put into them the longer the range. For example (light is a good example of this) Which is easier to see from 100 km away: a 100Watt lightbulb, or a 1MW light bulb. To anyone who uses logic obviously the 1MW will be easier to see. Both phasers and TLs dissapate energy over distance as light, otherwise they could not be seen. Therefore a shot that can take out a tank will have more range, because it had more intial energy, than one that is barely the same power as a hand grenade.

Soulman · Post by **Soulman** » 2003-01-05 06:22am

Damn that buggy's crap, a WWII jeep with a .50 cal would be far better...

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-06 12:19pm

Soulman wrote:Damn that buggy's crap, a WWII jeep with a .50 cal would be far better...

I agree, though I think a WWI armored car with 30mm could take it out too!

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-06 04:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:Federation buggy:

Note the largely open design, with sheet metal protecting the engine and not much at all protecting the occupants. From the side, the driver is almost completely exposed, and the gunner is almost completely exposed from virtually ANY angle. Also note the rear gun and its near-useless field-of-fire restriction. Gun appeared to have the effect of a grenade launcher.

Here we see a vehicle that is very poorly designed. The Weapon could easily be mounted on top of the vehicle, but it is not. It is open to all sides but directly ahead. sice the weapon is only mounted on the back that makes this feature even worse. This means to attack a opponent you must turn the only defended area away from the enemy.

Darth Wong wrote:Naboo speeder:

Note the open-cockpit design which affords minimal protection but at least provides wraparound coverage below chest level; less of the occupant's body is exposed to fire from all angles. Also note the computer-controlled gun, probably meant for long-range accuracy.

A well built design for what is basically a heavy police cruiser. It has ok cover and is fast. It has a turret which gives the crew many options in combat.

Darth Wong wrote:
It hits the nearest tank on the right side and you can see two huge chunks of armour being blown away from the blast. Note that the cross-section book shows that the blast hit the side of the cockpit, which is solid, inert armour plate. Plate thickness appears to be roughly 1/16 the height of a battle droid. If we assume 1.8m height for a battle droid, this is roughly 11 cm, or 4.5" thick armour plate. Judging from the level of damage, this gun could easily punch through much thicker armour than that.

Here we see its heavy gun in action. If it can do this to a LTT Tank then the wimp Argo has no chance if the Flash ever hits it.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2003-01-07 10:51am

However, the weapon is idealy placed for what the Feddies would be doing in the face of an Imperial ground assault...

[Monty Python and the Holy Grail Knights]
Run away, run away, run away
[/MP&HGK]

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-01-07 06:22pm

Darth Servo wrote:However, the weapon is idealy placed for what the Feddies would be doing in the face of an Imperial ground assault...

[Monty Python and the Holy Grail Knights]
Run away, run away, run away
[/MP&HGK]

The Feddies would have trouble dealing with the rabbit in that movie. At least the Monty Python guys could kill the Rabbit.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-01-07 06:57pm

Soulman wrote:Damn that buggy's crap, a WWII jeep with a .50 cal would be far better...

It would be far more amusing to pit the Federation Buggy against an Ontos.