Rape is defined as sex without consent. Statutory rape is consentual sex between an adult and a minor. Even if the minor is desperate for it, the adult is supposed to deny the pleasure because of legality. Both of these are punishable when they do occur. The minor is charged with rape in the case of nonconsentual minor-forced rape. But what if a minor ties up an adult (unbeknownst to him or her at the time) and when the adult realises it, he or she consents to sex.
Is this statutory rape and is it prosecutable? I see no way of doing such because a) the child could not be charged because the adult was consentual, and b) the adult had no way or preventing it which would force the issue to a standard rape situation which is negated by consent of the adult.
So maybe all of those adult-child relationships could work legally if the adult is bound at the time of sex
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A strong widdle 15-year old girl ties up a 40-year old man and demands sex or she will lay his throat open with the hunting knife she has. The man acquiesces.
Who would be charged with a crime?
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kojikun wrote:Rape is defined as sex without consent. Statutory rape is consentual sex between an adult and a minor.
Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
Brotherhood of the Monkey @( !.! )@ To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift. ~Steve Prefontaine Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at an Elingsh uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae we do not raed ervey lteter by it slef but the wrod as a wlohe.
I'm not, I'm just tired of all these Devil's Advocate and Begging the Question situations. Especially for a subject I cannot tolerate any sort of attempts at rationalising.
Although it might have been his rather tasteless attempt at a joke at the end that partially set me off, so I appoligise.
I believe in a sign of Zeta.
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kojikun wrote:Rape is defined as sex without consent. Statutory rape is consentual sex between an adult and a minor.
Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
The problem, though, is that a lot of countries base this "age of responsibility" on puritan values and ideas. The US, for example.
Let's not forget that, in not so many centuries past, a fourteen year old person was considered virtually an adult, fully capable of leading households or hunting parties. Girls at that age were likely to be married and pregnant.
But fourteen year olds of today usually do not show this level of maturity, which leads me to believe a lot of the problems are cultural. My point, however, is that there are a lot of young people out there easily capable of handling that kind of responsibility over their own bodies. Problem is, a lot can't.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
I see no issue with sex with minors. Obviously you who say children are not capable of making responsible decisions have had amnesia, because you forget that numerous people have mentioned CHILDREN raping ADULTS. You also seem to forget then minors often fuck one another and that is not illegal. You all seem to have an issue with "adults" and "minors" having sex. What defines a minor? Would you like to know? "18". That is the definition. Once youre above that age youre an adult. Below it youre a minor. Apparently when you turn 18 you are magically imbued with knowledge that makes you a wise and knowing person who is incapable of being raped or coerced into-- wait no nevermind.
The situation I proposed is consenting on the part of the adult, but there is no feasible way for the adult to prevent it from happening so responsibility falls on the child. There was no force involved, and the adult was not forced to have sex with the child by means of fear, so the adult is consenting, unlike the person in the situation with the knife.
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
--But fourteen year olds of today usually do not show this level of maturity, which leads me to believe a lot of the problems are cultural. My point, however, is that there are a lot of young people out there easily capable of handling that kind of responsibility over their own bodies. Problem is, a lot can't.--
Exactly, which is why the sitation above is the way it is: The child is in complete control of the situation, but its not involuntary.
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
The real issue I would find is that in court, the child might be able to be charged with attempt to rape, because there was no reasonable way for the adult, consenting or not, to escape. However, when the charge of rape is brought, the person tied up MUST declare he was not consenting, which makes the charge of attempted rape crumble.
This would make the situation the responsibility of the adult, and laws have it so that he cannot be charged with rape due to circumstances beyond his control.
So the only possible conviction I see is attempt to rape because the adult could have been pressured into accepting it by force (the knife type situation) even tho he wasn't. But the whole cycle comes back because the adult is the only person who can verify this and the whole case rests upon him simultaneously forced by and forcing the child to have sex.
The theres the question of whether a judge would even hear the case, given the situation.
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
Innerbrat: Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
So I guess when two 16 year olds (minors) have sex, its rape?
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
kojikun wrote:--But fourteen year olds of today usually do not show this level of maturity, which leads me to believe a lot of the problems are cultural. My point, however, is that there are a lot of young people out there easily capable of handling that kind of responsibility over their own bodies. Problem is, a lot can't.--
Exactly, which is why the sitation above is the way it is: The child is in complete control of the situation, but its not involuntary.
Indeed. Next exercise: in the situation above with the tied up man and the crazed girl, switch the gender of the participants. I have a feeling this will change the situation in the eyes of a lot of people.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
kojikun wrote:You all seem to have an issue with "adults" and "minors" having sex. What defines a minor? Would you like to know? "18". That is the definition. Once youre above that age youre an adult. Below it youre a minor.
Nope.
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
kojikun wrote:Innerbrat: Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
So I guess when two 16 year olds (minors) have sex, its rape?
Age of consent in most states now is 16. If the age of consent is higher, probably not, since they're both minors.
kojikun wrote:Innerbrat: Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
So I guess when two 16 year olds (minors) have sex, its rape?
Except, where I come from, 16 is the AoC for het sex, so 16 year olds are minors. But yes, if two 15 year olds have sex, the guy could have a charge of rape brought against him.
And it doesn't matter if the victim 'consents at the last minute' - that's what generally happens with rape - the victim just gives up fighting. Many rapists could give the 'but she let me in the end' argument...
I have experience of rape by a minor, OK? I know it happens. But minors who commit crimes generally get a lessened sentence because of diminished responsibility, which is understandable.
"I fight with love, and I laugh with rage, you gotta live light enough to see the humour and long enough to see some change" - Ani DiFranco, Pick Yer Nose
"Life 's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." - Spike, Once More with Feeling
kojikun wrote:Rape is defined as sex without consent. Statutory rape is consentual sex between an adult and a minor.
Statutory rape is rape because a child is not considered responsible enough to grant consent. There is no such thing as consentual sex with a minor.
Exactly, if either of the parties lacks the ability to grant informed constest then it is rape. This could happen because:
1.) Age
2.) Drugs
3.) Mental Defect
4.) Etc.
Doesn't matter why informed consent couldn't be given, it's still rape. On the other hand, if you are already tied up consent would be given under duress, so you couldn't be found guilty. Although, that would be a matter for the jury to decide, and I don't think many would accept that defense. And even if they did, you'd still have the reputation of a Child Molester.
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:Doesn't matter why informed consent couldn't be given, it's still rape. On the other hand, if you are already tied up consent would be given under duress, so you couldn't be found guilty. Although, that would be a matter for the jury to decide, and I don't think many would accept that defense. And even if they did, you'd still have the reputation of a Child Molester.
Even if you were yourself a child?
IMHO, that's ridiculous. Rape is rape, and I feel certain people that aren't sickos know the difference.
Also, a lot of people seem to confuse age of consent (a very ephemeral thing, varying a lot between countries and even American states) with what's best for the child. I suppose what's best for a child is determined geographically?
Björn Paulsen
"Travelers with closed minds can tell us little except about themselves."
--Chinua Achebe
C.S.Strowbridge wrote:Doesn't matter why informed consent couldn't be given, it's still rape. On the other hand, if you are already tied up consent would be given under duress, so you couldn't be found guilty. Although, that would be a matter for the jury to decide, and I don't think many would accept that defense. And even if they did, you'd still have the reputation of a Child Molester.
Even if you were yourself a child?
If both parties are children, then neither party can be prosecuted as adults anyway. They might go to Juvie court, but as long as their was no violence involved, I doubt anyone would be going to jail.
[/quote]IMHO, that's ridiculous. Rape is rape, and I feel certain people that aren't sickos know the difference.[/quote]
And a lot of people want to be able to justify taking advantage of children.
Also, a lot of people seem to confuse age of consent (a very ephemeral thing, varying a lot between countries and even American states) with what's best for the child. I suppose what's best for a child is determined geographically?
Kojikun never bothered to rephrase the situation so I could actually understand what the hell is going on, or what his argument is. So I really have no idea what he's blathering about now.
Can you actually explain it to me in a straightforward manner? You seemed to write it out in a manner that shows you thought of things as you wrote it, but didn't bother to revise it. So to me it looks jumbled.
As far as I can see, the adult is tied up, and forced by the child into having intercourse.
Wouldn't the child then be charged of forcing the adult into commiting something illegal?
And I don't give a shit about what anybody says or accuses me of demonising: I still think it's very weird (at the very least) when someone seems to try and rationalise adults having sex with children, or even take that side of an argument. I'm sorry, but to me, even that is sickening.
Last edited by Spanky The Dolphin on 2003-01-04 05:43pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
Appologies if I didnt make this clear, the adult is not FORCED to have sex, hes just tied up. he would do it regardless of the ropes. Hes consenting completely and entirely.
Sì! Abbiamo un' anima! Ma è fatta di tanti piccoli robot.
