ST dress?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 04:08pm

WORF
Starfleet uniforms are designed
for comfort in even the most
extreme environments.

Questions, comments?

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-01-03 04:10pm

Sounds like a line from a commercial.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 04:14pm

Well not exactly the sort of comment I was lookng for but it will do

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-01-03 04:21pm

Actually its like something out of a Gap or an old navy commercial. Ok, more like something out of an Oldspice commercial. "Even in the most extremem cicurmstances, Federation Uniforms perform with extra odor and wetness blocking power!" Something like that. I doubt that you would want to dipped in lava in a Feddie uniform though.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-01-03 05:15pm

Enlightenment wrote:Some of the Minbari robes were particularly effeminate, not to mention highly impractical for a spacefaring culture (zero g = problem). Yet another case of applying brainbug before brains.

Well this is a case where one of the most common brainbugs in sci-fi rides to the rescue.
"Artificial gravity is always the last ship system to fail, it will often stay on even after all the lights go out and it has been explicitly stated that the ship has lost ALL power."
The Mimbari have art-grav and they do know that such systems are *incredibly* reliable, so why would they worry about how their clothes perform in zero-g?

Besides when has practicality stood in the way of fashion?

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-01-03 05:26pm

greenmm wrote:At least TOS had some fashion to it, with bright colors and some variation in the civilian dress. According to TNG and DS9, civilians wear clothing of similar cut and color to the standard Starfleet uniforms (*shudder*)

I think a good example is Sisko's son, whatshisface, or Counselor Troi's earlier civilian-ish clothes. They look a lot like uniforms, even if they aren't.

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-03 05:30pm

Stormbringer wrote:You're giving the Minbari shit for not being prepared for the loss of gravity yet say Trek uniforms are fine for a climate controlled environment.

If the climate control fails on a spacecraft for a prolonged period then everyone on board will die. The only kind of uniform which would change that would be a full environment suit with internal thermal regulation. Environment suits are not practical for everyday wear. If climate control fails for a short period then the internal temperature will go up rather than down and the solution is to wear less, not more.

In contrast, Minbari (and Rangers, for that matter) on the B5 station would have to cope with zero-g on a dayly basis. Not wearing clothing designed to deal with their everyday requirements is simply boneheaded.

Frankly the HVAC is more likely to break than the gravity.

Provide evidence to support that assertion. Ship HVAC must be designed to run as if lives depended on it, because frankly they do. Gravity loss for for a time period shorter than that required for calcium loss (and other zero-g health effects) to become an issue is merely an inconvinence.

I see no hypocracy here.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 05:42pm

In contrast, Minbari (and Rangers, for that matter) on the B5 station would have to cope with zero-g on a dayly basis. Not wearing clothing designed to deal with their everyday requirements is simply boneheaded.

Was that pun intentional?

How often do Minbari have to deal with Zero G?

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2003-01-03 05:49pm

TheDarkling wrote:Was that pun intentional?

Yes.

How often do Minbari have to deal with Zero G?

On the B5 station, nearly every time they get into one of those turbolift ripoff elevators. Elsewhere, who knows.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 05:59pm

Yeah but how often do Minbari visit B5? and then its mostly warrior caste who would simply after take off their cloak, the only people in the really bad garb are the religious caste who we don't often see on the station (or maybe they where different clothing when they are on the station).

You do realise we are discussing the fashion pitfalls of a race from a scifi tv show right?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 06:49pm

Enlightenment wrote:
Frankly the HVAC is more likely to break than the gravity.
Provide evidence to support that assertion. Ship HVAC must be designed to run as if lives depended on it, because frankly they do. Gravity loss for for a time period shorter than that required for calcium loss (and other zero-g health effects) to become an issue is merely an inconvinence.

Because Trek uniforms are poorly designed for a number of reasons. Not the least of which that even an air conditioner breaking down or quarter being to warm is going to make them miserable. Those are not well designed uniforms.

Minbari robes are no more practical but the hyprocricy is there. You attack one for the same sort of reasons and yet praise another equally as bad.

Enlightenment wrote:I see no hypocracy here.

Ah, the typical response. You don't see your won bias. It's not suprising. You have some vendetta going so much so that you must take your time to bash B5 at every oppurtunity, reasonable or not.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 06:53pm

Stormbringer:
WORF
Starfleet uniforms are designed
for comfort in even the most
extreme environments.

Your claims of bad design are unfounded and refuted obviously in true trek style the uniforms have some technobabble in built AC.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-01-03 07:00pm

Frankly Darkling, to claim such a thing is asinine. Clearly he is saying that the uniforms are designed for comfort; to extrapolate this into built-in air conditioning is silly.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 07:09pm

I wasn't being serious, my point was stormbringers "if the ac on the ship breaks down they won't be happy" idea is wrong as worf states (while standing on a world that is climate controled for people to walk around in as little as possible).

VF5SS · Post by **VF5SS** » 2003-01-03 07:14pm

"Federation Uniforms... Stylish yet practical...Comfy yet durable...Warm yet breathable...They're the best thing the state can give you... So join Starfleet and experience the ultimate in luxury clothing..."

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-01-03 07:22pm

Personally I'd rather have people wandering around in the movie era TOS outfits or something akin to the stuff in Bab 5 when compared to TNG+ stuff.....

I mean fat people in those tightly tailored jumpsuits.....*shudders*...oh wait....ST conventions.....

Keevan.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 08:01pm

TheDarkling wrote:Stormbringer:
WORF
Starfleet uniforms are designed
for comfort in even the most
extreme environments.

Your claims of bad design are unfounded and refuted obviously in true trek style the uniforms have some technobabble in built AC.

That doesn't make it so. After all didn't Troi say they'd wiped out hunger and disaease yet we know those still exist.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 08:09pm

Yeah Worf was lying to Dax to try and impress her (heres where I would put my :roll eyes: however I have been told its kind of iritating so instead aw hell )

.

Honestly though if we are going to disregard canon for no reason whats the point?

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-01-03 08:17pm

TheDarkling wrote:Yeah Worf was lying to Dax to try and impress her (heres where I would put my :roll eyes: however I have been told its kind of iritating so instead aw hell ) .

Honestly though if we are going to disregard canon for no reason whats the point?

Because we know (from the actors) that the things are uncomfortable and unpleseant. There are plenty of claims and the evidence of our own eyes. To believe what amounts to a sappy product endorsement doesn't amount to much.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-01-03 08:36pm

Thats pretty thin, how many times have I heard that what the producers etc say doesn't count, whats your other evidence?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-04 04:57am

Doesn't we often see Voyager crewmembers wearing civilians clothes off-duty?? (And I'm not just referring to 7-of-9's tights!!)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-01-04 03:57pm

Actually, Stormbringer, that really doesn't mean much, since a lot of film/tv costumes are uncomfortable. (One example is with The Matrix: the commercial version of Morpheus' coat had to be modified, since the design of the one for the film didn't allow the actor to lift his arms up.)

I don't see why the "On Screen" uniform couldn't be made comfortable.

I just started wondering exactly how comfortable the fan-made uniforms are.

Also, I remember the TNG skirted uniform present a few times in at least the first season. Mostly women, but there might have been a few men wearing it.

I know that they changed the uniform for TNG season 4 (or such), with a separate jacket so they were more comfortable for the actors. Whether the pants were seperate articles as well, I don't know, but I would hope so, simply for the fact that I also think it's silly to take off your entire uniform to use the restroom.

Casual clothes or civilian dress: Personally, I don't know.

I like what they do for Gundam, though. 2173 (0093, Char's Counterattack), and they still wear business suits-just like those today (or even for Turn-A, which is past the year 4000). For civilian dress, they wore clothes contemporary to the time the series/films were made (late 70s, early 90s, etc...) But generally a late 20th Century appearence.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-04 10:00pm

As a guy who has worn a few sets of coveralls in the Navy I can tell you that unless they are loose they aren't all that comfortable. TNG appeared to like having things form fitting. Just try lifting your arms above your head in an outfit like that. At the very least you have instant camel toe (yes it can happen to guys too) and in some instances it can be rather painful. At the same time you probably won't be able to lift your arms very well.

IIRC it seems that the changes to two piece uniforms only impacted the uniforms of the male characters. (The one piece uniforms were more form fitting and allowed people to leer at the female characters

It seemed rather obvious the last year that Terry Ferrell was on DS9. Her one piece uniform seemed rather tight.)

Enterprise seems to have a better one piece uniform design for the crew. Loose, comfortable and it has lots of pockets. While I appreciate the form fitting uniform T'Pol wears it doesn't make any sense or match up with what all the other vulcans have been wearing. I guess some of the Vulcans in that break away sect had similar clothing but most Vulcans wear stuff completely different than T'Pol.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-01-05 05:49am

Tsyroc wrote:Enterprise seems to have a better one piece uniform design for the crew. Loose, comfortable and it has lots of pockets. While I appreciate the form fitting uniform T'Pol wears it doesn't make any sense or match up with what all the other vulcans have been wearing. I guess some of the Vulcans in that break away sect had similar clothing but most Vulcans wear stuff completely different than T'Pol.

Doesn't most Vulcans wear Hare Krishna robes?? A form-fitting jumpsuit might be more practical than long, flowing robes if you're a spaceship crewmember.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-01-05 10:55am

Simon H.Johansen wrote: Doesn't most Vulcans wear Hare Krishna robes?? A form-fitting jumpsuit might be more practical than long, flowing robes if you're a spaceship crewmember.

It's definately better on the ship because it wouldn't have extra fabric to
get caught on things like the robes. I still don't understand why she couldn't wear more normal two piece clothing other than the obvious ratings boosting reasons.