Bear better off dead?

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Spin Echo
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Bear better off dead?

Post by Spin Echo »

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CNN wrote: Cuddly polar bear cub better off dead, activist says

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Berlin Zoo's abandoned polar bear cub Knut looks cute, cuddly and has become a front-page media darling, but an animal rights activist insisted Monday he would have been better off dead than raised by humans.

"Feeding by hand is not species-appropriate but a gross violation of animal protection laws," animal rights activist Frank Albrecht was quoted as saying by the mass-circulation Bild daily, which has featured regular photo spreads tracking fuzzy Knut's frolicking.

"The zoo must kill the bear."

When Knut -- or "Cute Knut," as the 8.7 kilogram (19 pound) bear has become known -- was born last December, his mother ignored him and his brother, who later died. Zoo officials intervened, choosing to raise the cub themselves.

The story prompted quick condemnations from the zoo, politicians and other animal rights groups.

"The killing of an animal has nothing to do with animal protection," said Wolfgang Apel, head of the German Federation for the Protection of Animals.
Politicians weigh in on bear

Greens politician Undine Kurth called the suggestion "fully unacceptable." Petra Pau of the opposition Left Party invoked the widely-reported case of an Italian bear dubbed "Bruno" who wandered last year into southern Germany, only to be killed by hunters at the behest of local authorities worried about residents and livestock.

"Berlin is not Bavaria, therefore it will be better for Knut than Bruno," Pau said.

Albrecht told The Associated Press his beliefs were more nuanced than reported by Bild, though he applauded the debate the article had started.

He explained that though he thought it was wrong of the zoo to have saved the cub's life, now that the bear can live on his own, it would be equally wrong to kill him.

"If a polar bear mother rejected the baby, then I believe the zoo must follow the instincts of nature," Albrecht said. "In the wild, it would have been left to die."

The German animal rights organization "Four Paws" argued along similar lines, saying it would not be right to punish the cub for a bad decision made by the zoo.

Other activists have also argued that current treatment of the cub is inhumane and could lead to future difficulties interacting with fellow polar bears.

"They cannot domesticate a wild animal," Ruediger Schmiedel, head of the Foundation for Bears, told Der Spiegel weekly in its Monday edition.

Albrecht cited a similar case of a baby sloth bear that was abandoned by its mother last December in the Leipzig city zoo and killed by lethal injection, rather than being kept alive by humans.

But Knut belongs to the Berlin Zoo, and their veterinarian Andre Schuele, charged with caring for him, disagrees.

"These criticisms make me angry, but you can't take them so seriously," Andre Schuele said. "Polar bears live alone in the wild; I see no logical reason why this bear should be killed."

Schuele also argued that given the increased rarity of polar bears in the wild, it makes sense to keep them alive in captivity so that they can be bred.

"Polar bears are under threat of extinction, and if we feed the bear with a bottle, it has a good chance of growing up and perhaps becoming attractive as a stud for other zoos," Schuele said.

Knut, who recently posed for a photo shoot with star-photographer Annie Leibovitz for an environmental protection campaign, is scheduled to make his public debut at the zoo later this week or early next week, according to Schuele.

Until then, Germans can follow the bear's progress in a vast photo spread and videos of Knut drinking from his bottle, bathing and playing with teddy bears and soccer balls, all available on the zoo's Web site.
Bloody animal rights activists. The bear cub lives in a zoo. No matter whether the mother rears it or the zookeepers do, its experiences will be vastly different than a cub reared in the wild. I doubt that the zoo feeds the bears live seals, so it's not as if the cub would have learned skills to survive in the wild from its mother anyway.

The only possible reasoning I could understand about not raising an abandoned cub was if the mother rejected it because there was something seriously wrong with its health. As this doesn't appear to be the case, I see no good reason not to rear the bear cub by hand.
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Tahlan
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Polar Bear Cub

Post by Tahlan »

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Can you imagine killing this little guy? No way. Proponents of killing the little guy deserve to be tarred and feathered, and then chased out of town.

So, his mother rejected him. Bad mother. But he's in a zoo for crying out loud! Zoos protect animals. Zoos are famous for raising endangered animals/species. Let the zoo do what it does so well. The little guy deserves a life. He didn't ask to be abandoned. So what if he would have died in the wild? For the sake of being redundant, this is a zoo! It would be amoral for the zoo to destroy the little fellow. Especially after they probably conspired in his birth. Zoos are instrumental in propogating the births of animals all the time. So what's so different about this cub? LET HIM LIVE!

Knut...here's to you, lad. Live long and prosper! *Toasting Knut with a swig from a bottle of sparkling water*
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Post by Molyneux »

Fuck Albrecht. He sounds like a psychopathic dickhead to me.

Also:
Other psychopathic dickhead wrote:They cannot domesticate a wild animal.
Oh, really. I'm sure all those domesticated dogs, cats, ferrets, goldfish, cows, goats, chickens, and sheep are just figments of our imaginations, then.
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Post by Tolya »

When I was reading for the first time, I thought the guy was named "Freak Albrecht" instead of "Frank Albrecht". Does not really make too much of a difference.

Besides, that idiot's logic is retarded. By the same logic, we should kill all the newborn abandoned babies, because they were "rejected" and their parents cant support them & they would surely die.

Guess what fucktard, there are people who care.

Besides. the absolutely subjective cuteness factor relating that bear cub is immense.
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Post by salm »

The article is outdated. Knut will live.
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Post by Spin Echo »

salm wrote:The article is outdated. Knut will live.
No, I didn't think that offing him was ever a concern. I was more outraged at that people suggested we should let an abandoned but otherwise healthy cub born in captivity die because rearing it by hand would be unnatural.
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Post by Frank Hipper »

Thanks for the good news, salm.

Living in a fucking zoo is unnatural, polar bears in Berlin are unnatural, most modern medicine is unnatural; what in the name of my sweet ass is wrong with this moron?
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

These activtist... I know what needs to be done with them...

Saddly there are laws against it, an I can't bring myself to wast precious ammunition on them...
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Post by Tahlan »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:These activtists...I know what needs to be done with them....Saddly there are laws against it, and I can't bring myself to waste precious ammunition on them...
You crack me up, Invictus. :lol: Here's a toast to you! :D
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Post by rhoenix »

So wait - this polar bear cub needs to die because it was raised in captivity, imprinting on humans for care?

If this Frank Albrecht manages to get his cranial-rectal inversion disorder taken care of, he perhaps would see that a zoo is quite capable of providing for the needs and wants of this cub.
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Post by Patrick Degan »

Invictus ChiKen wrote:These activtist... I know what needs to be done with them...
We could always lower Frank into the tiger pit at the zoo and see how truly eager he is to let nature take its course. Wonder if he'd reject human intervention then...?
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Post by Invictus ChiKen »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Invictus ChiKen wrote:These activtist... I know what needs to be done with them...
We could always lower Frank into the tiger pit at the zoo and see how truly eager he is to let nature take its course. Wonder if he'd reject human intervention then...?
Patrick that is crule. Heartless and inhumane.

Those poor Tigers! Would you really let him near those majestic beast!?
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Post by Singular Intellect »

Patrick Degan wrote:
Invictus ChiKen wrote:These activtist... I know what needs to be done with them...
We could always lower Frank into the tiger pit at the zoo and see how truly eager he is to let nature take its course. Wonder if he'd reject human intervention then...?
Technically speaking, it would be human intervention that put him there in the first place. Could be a great way of illustrating the point in regards to the cub though. ;)
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Post by Uraniun235 »

"If a polar bear mother rejected the baby, then I believe the zoo must follow the instincts of nature," Albrecht said. "In the wild, it would have been left to die."
Man, what the hell, have these guys been watching too much Star Trek TNG?
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Post by Davis 51 »

"If a polar bear mother rejected the baby, then I believe the zoo must follow the instincts of nature," Albrecht said. "In the wild, it would have been left to die."


:wtf:

What the crap?

By his logic, we should leave him in the woods to die. No man-made technology, no aid, no food. After all, it would be unnatural!
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

I never really liked some environmentalists, and really, some of them ought to go live in the wild for a while so as to prove a point.
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Post by Thinkmarble »

And so a lie goes around the world.
No one has at anytime demanded the cub to be killed, but that was not big news enough for Bild, so they misquoted him and got headlines for three days out of the rumpus caused by it.
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Post by Molyneux »

Thinkmarble wrote:And so a lie goes around the world.
No one has at anytime demanded the cub to be killed, but that was not big news enough for Bild, so they misquoted him and got headlines for three days out of the rumpus caused by it.
"A lie can run 'round the world before the truth has got its boots on", yes, but...would you care to furnish any indication that he was misquoted? An accurate quotation, perhaps?
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Post by Spin Echo »

Thinkmarble wrote:And so a lie goes around the world.
No one has at anytime demanded the cub to be killed, but that was not big news enough for Bild, so they misquoted him and got headlines for three days out of the rumpus caused by it.
CNN wrote:Albrecht told The Associated Press his beliefs were more nuanced than reported by Bild, though he applauded the debate the article had started.

He explained that though he thought it was wrong of the zoo to have saved the cub's life, now that the bear can live on his own, it would be equally wrong to kill him.

"If a polar bear mother rejected the baby, then I believe the zoo must follow the instincts of nature," Albrecht said. "In the wild, it would have been left to die."
It's pretty clear that CNN acknowledges that Bild misquoted Albrecht about wanting to kill the bear off. That they would prefer a healthy cub born in captivity and abandoned by its mother die rather than have be reared by zookeepers still seems outrageous.
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Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

I have trouble seeing the difference, functionally, between letting something die when you know you can save it and deliberately killing it. The consequences for it are the same.

It just seems to me like a clever way of trying to shift moral responsibility. I don't see much of a difference. Something's just as dead. If you have the power to stop it without losing something of equal or greater moral value, I don't buy the let it die, not saving it = different from killing it, argument.

If I were to walk past someone drowning in a shallow pool, I wouldn't be able to just go "well, I didn't directly kill him!"

If the guy said he would rather it not have been saved, it would therefore have died due to deliberate inaction. How is that really all that different from going and killing it in terms of the ultimate consequence?
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Post by slebetman »

Boyish-Tigerlilly wrote:If the guy said he would rather it not have been saved, it would therefore have died due to deliberate inaction. How is that really all that different from going and killing it in terms of the ultimate consequence?
Actually, in the wild it IS better to let the cub die if the species is not on the brink of extinction. That's how nature works - let the fit survive and let the unfit die. However, as have been noted numerous times already, these fundie environmentalists need to be reminded that the bears are in a zoo and no, there's nothing natural about zoos. Letting animals die in zoos is just retarded activist bullshit.
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Post by Zor »

Thank the Emperor that they decided to let them live. This will boost the breeding population and lets face it, he is so goddamned cute

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Post by Boyish-Tigerlilly »

Slebteman wrote:
Actually, in the wild it IS better to let the cub die if the species is not on the brink of extinction. That's how nature works - let the fit survive and let the unfit die. However, as have been noted numerous times already, these fundie environmentalists need to be reminded that the bears are in a zoo and no, there's nothing natural about zoos. Letting animals die in zoos is just retarded activist bullshit.
I understand the wild, but as you said at the end, it's already an artificial environment, which is why I don't see much of a difference because the consequences are the same.

That's entirely what I don't understand; why let a healthy being die in an artificial environment designed to keep them alive?
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Post by Aaron »

Zor wrote:Thank the Emperor that they decided to let them live. This will boost the breeding population and lets face it, he is so goddamned cute

Zor
Given that the polar bears are starting to die off in the wild thanks to the sea ice retreating, zoo animal breeding may be all we have in a couple decades.
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Post by LadyTevar »

I loved Colbert's take on the situation. Totally Hardline, agreeing with Bild, until a picture or tape of the cub was shown. :lol:
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