Official: Microsoft 'bribes' companies to use Live Search

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Official: Microsoft 'bribes' companies to use Live Search

Post by Praxis »

http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/10554/532/
With a tiny 6.76% of the search market, compared with Google’s 60%+ search share dominance, Microsoft has decided it’s time to leverage their massive base of global Windows users with juicy wads of cash to switch search providers!

Unfortunately for some, Microsoft’s decision to pay companies money to switch their default search engine from Google, Yahoo or something is only companies can take advantage of, and not (as yet?) for individual users who would consider being paid to search with Windows Live Search.

But if you’re a company with thousands of PCs installed, all using Windows, Microsoft’s new program is official, and there’s a golden opportunity to convert the searches your employees do on a daily basis into tens of thousands of dollars, or even more.

Microsoft’s new program is called “Microsoft Service Credits for Web Search” and has been unveiled by John Batelle’s ‘SearchBlog’. The money on offer is significant, especially when multiplied across thousands of PCs. The deal means that companies can earn between US $2 and US $10 per computer on an annual basis, plus a US $25,000 “enrollment credit” which is a nice big wad of cash that will likely need a large-ish, strong and sturdy brown paper bag to hold securely while being passed under the table.

For companies that have thousands of computers, this could translate into anywhere from US $100,000 to $200,000 per year, which is money that could be put to good use in the IT department or elsewhere in the company.

Microsoft will use a ‘Browser Helper Object’ installed into IE7 to track search queries and send information on search back to Microsoft, so they can use the information to improve the results that Windows Live Search delivers. Because of this, IE7 must be used – it doesn’t work with Firefox, Opera or older versions of IE browsers.

Microsoft is encouraging companies to take up the program, and once they do so, to promote it internally to staff. Examples of promotions include an ‘in-house training session on how to get the most from web search’, with the search to be used naturally being Windows Live Search, setting the homepage to ‘Live Search’ or even a ‘message of encouragement’ to all staff from the CEO.

So this is basically, "We'll pay your company hundreds of thousands of dollars if you install our spyware force all your employees to use IE7 and make our search engine default"?

It'll certainly force IE7 adoption (my company's policy is to keep everyone on IE6), and MSN search...

How can that not be illegal?
Last edited by Praxis on 2007-03-18 07:46pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official: Microsoft 'bribes' companies to use Live Searc

Post by Xisiqomelir »

You misspelt M$.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Google does that too. Had some deal with Dell or something.
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Re: Official: Microsoft 'bribes' companies to use Live Searc

Post by Einhander Sn0m4n »

Xisiqomelir wrote:You misspelt M$.
Hold on, lemme go get Ace Pace...
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Post by atg »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Google does that too. Had some deal with Dell or something.
Also note that the Firefox default search engine is Google, same deal, they get paid for every search run through that engine.
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Post by Solauren »

Same with Netscape
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Re: Official: Microsoft 'bribes' companies to use Live Searc

Post by Uraniun235 »

Xisiqomelir wrote:You misspelt M$.
HURR IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THEY LIKE MONEY
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Post by Ace Pace »

How is this anything special? As mentioned, both Firefox and other browsers have deals with google for searchs. The only differance is that MS is doing straight after corporations.
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Post by Dominus Atheos »

Ace Pace wrote:How is this anything special? As mentioned, both Firefox and other browsers have deals with google for searchs. The only differance is that MS is doing straight after corporations.
That's simple. The difference it that MICRO$UX IS T3H 3V1L!!1!!one11!!!111!1!eleven!!!

Didn't you know that? :P
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Post by Praxis »

Has other companies actually gone around paying corporations to make their employees use Live Search?

(I haven't heard of any Dell deal, got any details?)

I pretty much just copied and pasted the article (including the title), so don't shoot the messenger :)
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Post by Netko »

No, the companies angle is new, but, as has been noted, Firefox and a ton of other browsers get payed a nice chunk of change plus a percentage of the ad revenue from the result page to put Google as the default search engine.

All is fair in love and (browser)wars.
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Post by Crayz9000 »

I think a big difference here is, at least in Firefox, if you don't like Google, you DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. There's a reason why you can plug any search engine you want into Firefox with almost no effort... The second difference is that the money Google is paying is going to fund the development of Firefox and other Mozilla software.

Microsoft, on the other hand, already set Windows Live Search as the default search in IE7. OK, no difference there really, I wouldn't really expect them to do anything else and I'm not going to cry about it.

What irritates me is that now, they're paying the end user (the companies using their products) specifically to install a BHO that ensures that IE7 is locked in to Windows Live Search. There is a very good legal term for that: kickbacks, or bribery. All in all, what else would you expect from a convicted monopolistic organization?

Come back when you have a better argument, MS apologists.
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Crayz9000 wrote:I think a big difference here is, at least in Firefox, if you don't like Google, you DON'T HAVE TO USE IT. There's a reason why you can plug any search engine you want into Firefox with almost no effort... The second difference is that the money Google is paying is going to fund the development of Firefox and other Mozilla software.

Microsoft, on the other hand, already set Windows Live Search as the default search in IE7. OK, no difference there really, I wouldn't really expect them to do anything else and I'm not going to cry about it.

What irritates me is that now, they're paying the end user (the companies using their products) specifically to install a BHO that ensures that IE7 is locked in to Windows Live Search. There is a very good legal term for that: kickbacks, or bribery. All in all, what else would you expect from a convicted monopolistic organization?

Come back when you have a better argument, MS apologists.
I doubt anyone is actually apologising for MS. Rather, it is just that both companies are quite screwed one way or another, though MS is probably more screwed than Google.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

What irritates me is that now, they're paying the end user (the companies using their products) specifically to install a BHO that ensures that IE7 is locked in to Windows Live Search. There is a very good legal term for that: kickbacks, or bribery. All in all, what else would you expect from a convicted monopolistic organization?
The company is perfectly free to decline to participate.

I'm not seeing the big problem. Oh noes, the company will tell you what search engine to use on the company computers! What a terrible calamity!

Except, oh wait. The company owns the hardware. The company pays for the internet connection. The company can mandate that its employees use whatever the fuck software it wants in order to do their jobs.

Where's the problem, again? Is there seriously an attempt here to argue that employees should be free to use whatever search engine they want, and that to deny them this freedom is wrong and evil?
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Post by Crayz9000 »

Uraniun235 wrote:
What irritates me is that now, they're paying the end user (the companies using their products) specifically to install a BHO that ensures that IE7 is locked in to Windows Live Search. There is a very good legal term for that: kickbacks, or bribery. All in all, what else would you expect from a convicted monopolistic organization?
The company is perfectly free to decline to participate.

I'm not seeing the big problem. Oh noes, the company will tell you what search engine to use on the company computers! What a terrible calamity!

Except, oh wait. The company owns the hardware. The company pays for the internet connection. The company can mandate that its employees use whatever the fuck software it wants in order to do their jobs.

Where's the problem, again? Is there seriously an attempt here to argue that employees should be free to use whatever search engine they want, and that to deny them this freedom is wrong and evil?
Red herring. Where did I specifically say that it was the lack of freedom of the employees that upsets me?

Although on that note, having seen IT from both sides of the fence, the IT policy-making scene is like a tightrope or juggling act: you have to keep from pissing the users off too much, but at the same time you have to save them from their own idiocy. IE7 is too new for me to judge whether it's a good or bad thing to be locked in to, but having seen the disaster that was IE4/5/6 my hopes aren't set too high.

Regardless, my point (also, if you missed it, the OP's point): Microsoft is paying said companies to install said software, for the simple reason that they feel their own search engine does not have enough market share. They will not settle for much less than 100% dominance in all markets, even if it means making a loss on their products while attempting to reach said market share. (Xbox? Zune anyone?)

No matter how you look at it, it's just a monopolistic tactic, and THAT is what grates on me the most.
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Post by Lonestar »

IE7 is banned at the Department of Army, and most other DoD networks for the immediate future, so it's doubtful that this will affect the government much.


Also, CITRIX(or at least Army-CITRIX) doesn't work on IE7, so everyone who got a new computer for Xmas or upgraded to Vista bitch and moan about being unable to access their work email at home now, even though the portal says, in big fucking words CITRIX DOES NOT SUPPORT IE7 OR FIREFOX 2.
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Post by Tolya »

Ahh, the quotes...the memories of laugh...

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Post by Tolya »

IE7 is banned at the Department of Army, and most other DoD networks for the immediate future, so it's doubtful that this will affect the government much.
Isn't that the fallout from the case where the US Navy equipped a missile cruiser with Microsoft software and the fucker just locked up in the middle of the ocean and had to be towed back to the port? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Post by Xon »

Tolya wrote:
IE7 is banned at the Department of Army, and most other DoD networks for the immediate future, so it's doubtful that this will affect the government much.
Isn't that the fallout from the case where the US Navy equipped a missile cruiser with Microsoft software and the fucker just locked up in the middle of the ocean and had to be towed back to the port? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nope, it is because it hasnt passed the required security ratings which IE6 has(Properly managed IE is damn secure, but only with proper management). Also, Firefox hasnt passed those security ratings either.
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Post by Lonestar »

Tolya wrote:[

Isn't that the fallout from the case where the US Navy equipped a missile cruiser with Microsoft software and the fucker just locked up in the middle of the ocean and had to be towed back to the port? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I can't tell if you're trying to make up a story or not.

But, I can say that that's something of an impossibility on a CG, even a "smart ship" still has manual stuff, and you can "drive" the ship from aft steering.
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Post by Uraniun235 »

Crayz9000 wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
What irritates me is that now, they're paying the end user (the companies using their products) specifically to install a BHO that ensures that IE7 is locked in to Windows Live Search. There is a very good legal term for that: kickbacks, or bribery. All in all, what else would you expect from a convicted monopolistic organization?
The company is perfectly free to decline to participate.

I'm not seeing the big problem. Oh noes, the company will tell you what search engine to use on the company computers! What a terrible calamity!

Except, oh wait. The company owns the hardware. The company pays for the internet connection. The company can mandate that its employees use whatever the fuck software it wants in order to do their jobs.

Where's the problem, again? Is there seriously an attempt here to argue that employees should be free to use whatever search engine they want, and that to deny them this freedom is wrong and evil?
Red herring. Where did I specifically say that it was the lack of freedom of the employees that upsets me?

Although on that note, having seen IT from both sides of the fence, the IT policy-making scene is like a tightrope or juggling act: you have to keep from pissing the users off too much, but at the same time you have to save them from their own idiocy. IE7 is too new for me to judge whether it's a good or bad thing to be locked in to, but having seen the disaster that was IE4/5/6 my hopes aren't set too high.

Regardless, my point (also, if you missed it, the OP's point): Microsoft is paying said companies to install said software, for the simple reason that they feel their own search engine does not have enough market share. They will not settle for much less than 100% dominance in all markets, even if it means making a loss on their products while attempting to reach said market share. (Xbox? Zune anyone?)

No matter how you look at it, it's just a monopolistic tactic, and THAT is what grates on me the most.
My last sentence was directed more at the thread at large.

Also, I work in an IT department, and we wouldn't let "oh do you think the users would like it?" hold us up for even a minute; our problems would be "how do we implement this across a thousand computers with a minimum of effort" (difficult, but not insurmountable, especially with the promise of a $25K initial sum - I'm seeing new network switches in there) and "would IE7 break certain programs" (and that'd be the killer because it would. :( )
Lonestar wrote: I can't tell if you're trying to make up a story or not.
There's a story circulating the internet that several years ago, Windows NT 4 crashed on a "smart ship", and left the ship disabled.
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Post by MKSheppard »

No that's actually true, the USS Yorktown was dead in the water for a few hours back in 1999 or 2000.
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Post by Xisiqomelir »

MKSheppard wrote:No that's actually true, the USS Yorktown was dead in the water for a few hours back in 1999 or 2000.
And the Royal Navy is going to use Win*ows for Warships, sigh.
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Post by Lonestar »

MKSheppard wrote:No that's actually true, the USS Yorktown was dead in the water for a few hours back in 1999 or 2000.
So? We've been "dead in the water" for a few hours too, didn't have shit windows.

EDIT: Incidently, some of the smart ships(the one smart ship) I've seenuses a UNIX-type OS, not Windows. It has a Gee-you-eye, but it ain't windows.
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Post by Tolya »

Unfortunately I am not making that up. Or fortunately. Depends whether USA is going to invade Poland anytime soon.

Anyways:

http://lists.essential.org/1998/am-info/msg03829.html
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=========
http://www.gcn.com/gcn/1998/July13/cov2.htm

GOVERNMENT NEWS

GCN July 13, 1998

Software glitches leave Navy Smart Ship dead in the water

By Gregory Slabodkin GCN Staff

The Navys Smart Ship technology may not be as smart as the service
contends.

Although PCs have reduced workloads for sailors aboard the Aegis missile
cruiser USS Yorktown, software glitches resulted in system failures and
crippled ship operations, according to Navy officials.

Navy brass have called the Yorktown Smart Ship pilot a success in
reducing manpower, maintenance and costs. The Navy began running
shipboard applications under Microsoft Windows NT so that fewer sailors
would be needed to control key ship functions.

But the Navy last fall learned a difficult lesson about automation: The
very information technology on which the ships depend also makes them
vulnerable. The Yorktown last September suffered a systems failure when
bad data was fed into its computers during maneuvers off the coast of
Cape Charles, Va.

The ship had to be towed into the Naval base at Norfolk, Va., because a
database overflow caused its propulsion system to fail, according to
Anthony DiGiorgio, a civilian engineer with the Atlantic Fleet Technical
Support Center in Norfolk.

We are putting equipment in the engine room that we cannot maintain and,
when it fails, results in a critical failure, DiGiorgio said. It took two
days of pierside maintenance to fix the problem.

The Yorktown has been towed into port after other systems failures, he
said.

Not officially

Atlantic Fleet officials acknowledged that the Yorktown last September
experienced what they termed an engineering local area network casualty,
but denied that the ships systems failure lasted as long as DiGiorgio
said. The Yorktown was dead in the water for about two hours and 45
minutes, fleet officials said, and did not have to be towed in.

This is the only time this casualty has occurred and the only propulsion
casualty involved with the control system since May 2, 1997, when
software configuration was frozen, Vice Adm. Henry Giffin, commander of
the Atlantic Fleets Naval Surface Force, reported in an Oct. 24, 1997,
memorandum.

Giffin wrote the memo to describe what really happened in hope of
clearing the scuttlebutt surrounding the incident, he noted.

The Yorktown lost control of its propulsion system because its computers
were unable to divide by the number zero, the memo said. The Yorktowns
Standard Monitoring Control System administrator entered zero into the
data field for the Remote Data Base Manager program. That caused the
database to overflow and crash all LAN consoles and miniature remote
terminal units, the memo said.

The program administrators are trained to bypass a bad data field and
change the value if such a problem occurs again, Atlantic Fleet officials
said.

But the Yorktowns failure in September 1997 was not as simple as
reported, DiGiorgio said.

If you understand computers, you know that a computer normally is immune
to the character of the data it processes, he wrote in the June U.S.
Naval Institutes Proceedings Magazine. Your $2.95 calculator, for
example, gives you a zero when you try to divide a number by zero, and
does not stop executing the next set of instructions. It seems that the
computers on the Yorktown were not designed to tolerate such a simple
failure.

The Navy reduced the Yorktown crew by 10 percent and saved more than $2.8
million a year using the computers. The ship uses dual 200-MHz Pentium
Pros from Intergraph Corp. of Huntsville, Ala. The PCs and server run NT
4.0 over a high-speed, fiber-optic LAN.

Blame it on the OS

But according to DiGiorgio, who in an interview said he has serviced
automated control systems on Navy ships for the past 26 years, the NT
operating system is the source of the Yorktowns computer problems.

NT applications aboard the Yorktown provide damage control, run the ships
control center on the bridge, monitor the engines and navigate the ship
when under way.

Using Windows NT, which is known to have some failure modes, on a warship
is similar to hoping that luck will be in our favor, DiGiorgio said.

Pacific and Atlantic fleets in March 1997 selected NT 4.0 as the standard
OS for both networks and PCs as part of the Navys Information Technology
for the 21st Century initiative. Current guidance approved by the Navys
chief information officer calls for all new applications to run under NT.

Ron Redman, deputy technical director of the Fleet Introduction Division
of the Aegis Program Executive Office, said there have been numerous
software failures associated with NT aboard the Yorktown.

Refining that is an ongoing process, Redman said. Unix is a better system
for control of equipment and machinery, whereas NT is a better system for
the transfer of information and data. NT has never been fully refined and
there are times when we have had shutdowns that resulted from NT.

Hauled in

The Yorktown has been towed into port several times because of the
systems failures, he said.

Because of politics, some things are being forced on us that without
political pressure we might not do, like Windows NT, Redman said. If it
were up to me I probably would not have used Windows NT in this
particular application. If we used Unix, we would have a system that has
less of a tendency to go down.

Although Unix is more reliable, Redman said, NT may become more reliable
with time.

The Navy is moving the services command and control applications from
Unix to NT as part of IT-21. Under IT-21, the Navy also plans to
modernize ships in the Atlantic and Pacific fleets with asynchronous
transfer mode LANs. Large ATM networks running NT have already been
installed on the USS Abraham Lincoln and USS Essex.

But DiGiorgio said the LANs might experience a chain reaction of computer
failures like those experienced on the Yorktown. That domino effect is
inherent to the system design of shipboard LANs, he said.

There is very little segregation of error when software shares bad data,
DiGiorgio said. Instead of one computer knocking off on the Yorktown,
they all did, one after the other. What if this happened in actual
combat?

Although the Yorktown did not have backup systems, Redman said that
future Smart Ships will have systems redundancy to ensure that ships can
continue to operate.

But DiGiorgio said that the Smart Ship project needs to do more
engineering up front.

Installing a control system on a warship and resolving problems as the
project progresses is a costly and naive process, DiGiorgio wrote in the
Proceedings article. Now, with the top people rotated off the Smart Ship
Project, it would be wise for the Navy to investigate this fiasco more
fully.

Redman has a different perspective. If it were me, I wouldnt say all the
things that Tony [DiGiorgio] has said out of discretion and consideration
for being a long-term employee, he said. But I will say this about Tony,
hes a very bright engineer.

Everybody plays the obedience role where you cannot criticize the system,
said DiGiorgio, a self-described whistle-blower. Im not that kind of guy.

Sidebar: Navy prepares to take Smart Ship full steam ahead

Despite the USS Yorktowns setbacks, the Navy plans to use Smart Ship
technology on other classes of ships. The Naval Sea Systems Command in
May awarded Litton Integrated Systems Corp. of Woodland Hills, Calif., a
$138.6 million contract to build Engineering Control System Equipment and
Integrated Bridge Systems for CG-47 Class Aegis cruisers. The Navy also
might install the equipment on DDG-51 class destroyers. Electronic Design
Inc. of Metairie, La., filed a protest of the award in late May with the
General Accounting Office. The Navy has issued a stop-work order that
will last until GAO rules on the protest. Smart Ship technology is also
on the amphibious ship USS Rushmore, Navy officials said.a
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