Okay, NOW Sony's in touble. (FF related)

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Even if FF13 goes non-exclusive, I just don't see it going on anything else than the 360. Redoing it for the Wii would simply be a total waste of time and money, tantamount to virtually making a whole new game, while Square-Enix has to do virtually nothing to move/port it to the 360, in comparison.

It'd be more likely to have hamburgers grow on trees than for FF13 to come out for the Wii. Just not gonna happen, no way.

Of course that doesn't mean S-E wont' churn out FF-related titles for the Wii, which they will, definitely. Just not 13.

[SirNitram]

Even if FF13 goes non-exclusive, I just don't see it going on anything else than the 360. Redoing it for the Wii would simply be a total waste of time and money, while Square-Enix has to do virtually nothing to move it to the 360.

It'd be more likely to have hamburgers grow on trees than for FF13 to come out for the Wii. Just not gonna happen, no way.

Of course that doesn't mean S-E wont' churn out FF-related titles for the Wii, which they will, definitely. Just not 13.

Uh? There's some serious hardware differences between the 360 and the PS3. It's not just plug-and-play onto the 360 from the PS3; the PS3 depends on a single processor and 7 specialized widgets, while the 360 works with three normal CPU's. If you don't think that's a big, expensive reprogram, you're nuts.

[DPDarkPrimus]

We've already got FF:Crystal Bearers coming out for Wii, and we have FFXII: Revenant Wings and Dragon Quest IX coming out for DS.

Square is definitely abandoning Sony as "the" platform.

[InnocentBystander]

Does the PS3 use a regular graphics card, like the 360? Or does the cell processor do graphics too?

[SirNitram]

Does the PS3 use a regular graphics card, like the 360? Or does the cell processor do graphics too?

PS3 uses a NVIDIA GPU, 360 an ATI. I foresee no issues with GPU conversion if they go with the 360.

[Ace Pace]

I do forsee issues.

The PS3 uses a tweaked G70 core named the RSX, actully, arguments range over whether it's a G70 or G71,but the differance is minor. Arrow probably knows more.

The Xbox360 uses the Xenos chip, a chip that has more in common with the R600 and the G80 then with any prior chip(AKA unified shaders), now, since MS is using Managed DX, it dosn't mean that much, but there is the cost of translating DirectX to OpenGL, which takes time and isn't always a simple 1 to 1 conversion.

[InnocentBystander]

I don't know a whole lot about the cell processor or how would one program in it, but I would assume that they would used similary: lots of threads and healthy amount of code to pevent mutual exclusion.
If thats the case then I would say that going between ps3 and 360 should indeed be a breeze.

I do forsee issues.

The PS3 uses a tweaked G70 core named the RSX, actully, arguments range over whether it's a G70 or G71,but the differance is minor. Arrow probably knows more.

The Xbox360 uses the Xenos chip, a chip that has more in common with the R600 and the G80 then with any prior chip(AKA unified shaders), now, since MS is using Managed DX, it dosn't mean that much, but there is the cost of translating DirectX to OpenGL, which takes time and isn't always a simple 1 to 1 conversion.

Of course going from openGL to directX might take some work...

[Ace Pace]

I don't know a whole lot about the cell processor or how would one program in it, but I would assume that they would used similary: lots of threads and healthy amount of code to pevent mutual exclusion.
If thats the case then I would say that going between ps3 and 360 should indeed be a breeze.

That IS asumming the CELL was anything remotely like other multi-core chips out there, it is not.

The CELL is composed of one main processor, in-order(similar to a single core of the Xbox360s 3 cores, each of which runs two threads), and 6-7(forgot which) smaller processors, which are very limited in what they can do.

Infact, they're so problematic that in GDC 07' there were not a few workshops by IBM, Sony, etc. on how to properly utilise these tiny cores.

CELL is powerful, but easily portable to the Xbox360? My money is on a no, not without some really good tools.

[SirNitram]

Okay, let me see if I can run this down so we can have a logical debate.

Equal Ground:
Both Wii and 360 are hardware-different enough to require quite a bit of time and tools to convert.
Both DevKits are pretty cheap.
Both have worked with S-E before.
Both have signifigant marketshare.

360 Favour:
Better graphics.

Wii Favour:
Long history with S-E.

What else have we got to add to the lists? Did HD-DVD ever go anywhere on the 360? That could be a big leg up, more storage space on the disc.

[Arrow]

I do forsee issues.

The PS3 uses a tweaked G70 core named the RSX, actully, arguments range over whether it's a G70 or G71,but the differance is minor. Arrow probably knows more.

The Xbox360 uses the Xenos chip, a chip that has more in common with the R600 and the G80 then with any prior chip(AKA unified shaders), now, since MS is using Managed DX, it dosn't mean that much, but there is the cost of translating DirectX to OpenGL, which takes time and isn't always a simple 1 to 1 conversion.

IIRC, the RSX is a modified G71 (7900 series). It's been a long time since I looked up anything on the PS3's specs.

The OpenGL to DX conversion is the real work on the graphics side; most of that will probably consist of making sure shaders and textures display properly.

I don't know a whole lot about the cell processor or how would one program in it, but I would assume that they would used similary: lots of threads and healthy amount of code to pevent mutual exclusion.

The problem with the PS3's Cell versus the 360 is the architecture. While you have to work about dead locks, race conditions and the likes on both CPUs, the Cell is one general purpose core with 7 (?) vector units, while the 360 has three general purpose cores. The resulting threading model is going to be different, so there's going to be some work to do. Now if you're going from the 360 to the PC, that's a lot easier.

[Ace Pace]

HD-DVD is irrelevent on the Xbox360, the DVD drive is the method to load games and that won't change anytime soon, at all.

[Hotfoot]

With Blu-Ray picking up speed, HD-DVD support is waning on the 360. However it works, it will be an external drive attachement. Supposedly there's some fancy new 360 variant coming out in the coming months, but details are sparse. Also, demanding consumers buy a $100+ piece of hardware to play a new game is questionable at best. Do that, and if it's still on the PS3 you'll not see the same amount of ship-jumping that would otherwise occur.

XBL Marketplace might be useful for getting some nice little extras for the game somehow, but that's one of those things that's really out there.

I think what it really comes down to is how much Microsoft is willing to spend and how open Square/Enix is to porting the game to the 360. Going beyond the game itself, having the name-brand recognition of Final Fantasy for the 360 would go a long way towards helping it in Japan.

Other than that, I can't really think of anything that would really make the 360 significantly better than the Wii in this instance that hasn't already been covered.

[SirNitram]

Doesn't XBoxLive have an acheivement thing? There's always those who like to brag about speed games, no stat/magic games, and other challenges. That might be in 360's favour.

[Hotfoot]

That's true, in addition to your standard "beat Boss X" and other types of thing, you're could have tons and tons of achievements for stuff that only the truly hardcore would care about, thus increasing the appeal of bragging rights, since they would now be verifiable.

[Genii Lodus]

For FF XIII Square have used their own custom White Engine. They have however licenced Unreal Engine 3 for other projects. As that has both PS3 and X360 versions it will be much easier to develop multiplatform releases. There's also a Wii version but given the Wii's considerable deficit in power compared to the other two it would be difficult to port things to it.

[Arrow]

AKAIK, the new 360 will add a bigger HD (120 GB) and HDMI, and will be built with a 65nm process, so it will run cooler and use less power. I'm thinking about buying the new revision, since I don't think I'm going to have the patience to wait for a Mass Effect port.

[Hotfoot]

A taste of things to come...

[Vendetta]

Both have signifigant marketshare.

It's not just a case of overall market share, but market share by territory. Currently, it makes sense in the US market to bank on the Xbox 360. It already has 5.5 million US users, and it's sales have remained healthy in the face of the competition, it also has high software sales and attach rates. People with Xbox 360s buy more games for them.

If they want to sell well in the US, the Xbox is currently the platform to go for.

However, from the tone of this report, it sounds like the discussion is exactly how large the moneyhat Sony are offering will be, and what denomination of bills it will comprise.

[Hotfoot]

The problem here is twofold. Sony is in serious financial trouble, even though their electronics department just managed to do an about-face, the fact that they went from one financial disaster into another so quickly is bad. Microsoft, meanwhile, has been doing pretty well for itself outside of the console market and is starting to pick up inside it. It can afford to throw around money, especially with Vista coming out to largely positive reviews.

Nintendo, similarly, is making money hand over fist between the Wii and the DS. They can offer a fair amount of cash as well, and as Nitram pointed out, they are a known factor.

[Praxis]

Okay, let me see if I can run this down so we can have a logical debate.

Equal Ground:
Both Wii and 360 are hardware-different enough to require quite a bit of time and tools to convert.
Both DevKits are pretty cheap.
Both have worked with S-E before.
Both have signifigant marketshare.

360 Favour:
Better graphics.

Wii Favour:
Long history with S-E.

What else have we got to add to the lists? Did HD-DVD ever go anywhere on the 360? That could be a big leg up, more storage space on the disc.

You're very simplistic about this.


360 favor:
With similar hardware power, only the engine needs to be re-written to run. All game assets, scripted cutscenes, animations, etc will work perfectly after the game engine is ported to 360.


Wii favor:
Likely to be the most popular machine in Japan and arguably U.S. (competing with 360).


Wii disfavor:
All the game assets will need to be downscaled, all the animations rebuilt, physics downsized, graphics reduced, engine made leaner...practically an all new game.



The smart thing to do is make a quick 360 port and simultaneously release it on PS3 and 360, and consider creating a Wii version later on.

[Vendetta]

The problem here is twofold. Sony is in serious financial trouble, even though their electronics department just managed to do an about-face, the fact that they went from one financial disaster into another so quickly is bad. Microsoft, meanwhile, has been doing pretty well for itself outside of the console market and is starting to pick up inside it. It can afford to throw around money, especially with Vista coming out to largely positive reviews.

Nintendo, similarly, is making money hand over fist between the Wii and the DS. They can offer a fair amount of cash as well, and as Nitram pointed out, they are a known factor.

I would say that even with their recent financial problems Sony can't afford not to offer Square Enix a moneyhat of particular majesty to secure an exclusive on Final Fantasy. Even the fact that they have to negotiate, rather than assuming exclusivity, is woeful news. FF is such a large and well known franchise that even people who don't follow the series know the name and most of them associate it with the Playstation. (The worst selling Playstation FF game has outsold FFVI, the highest selling SNES entry by more than a million units).

[Hotfoot]

I'd agree, but there is a limit to how much they offer, and Squenix is interested in making money too. It will be interesting to see how this pans out, but you won't see me shedding any tears if Sony gets shafted here. They done fucked up and assumed that they had a stranglehold.

Hopefully this will teach Sony a lesson for the next generation as they scramble to keep afloat in this one.

[Sephirius]

[Ritterin Sophia]

Schadenfreud... So, why did you buy the PS3 again?

[SirNitram]

The smart thing to do is make a quick 360 port and simultaneously release it on PS3 and 360, and consider creating a Wii version later on.

Only if we beleive that Microsoft has been a good business partner. Since the team-up with FFXI, more and more Nintendo Exclusives have been announced by S-E. This suggests all was not happy in it.