To live as a monster or die as a human

[Ezekyle Abaddon]

This is a question that has been annoying me for a while.
If you were faced with the same choice that Alucard (and possibly the Major), to die as a human or make the choice to live as a monster for the rest of your life, is this a choice that people should be allowed to make or not offered at all, its all up to you in those last few moments.

[Koolaidkirby]

It would depend on the type of vampirism, if I had to become a mindless bloodsucker who exploded at the slightest hint of sunlight or silver/garlic, I'd most likely choose to die a human. But if it were the "not really affected by sunlight, stronger, faster, and only a mild craving for blood" type of vampire, I would probably choose to keep going.

[Winston Blake]

Well I've seen the Hellsing anime, but I don't what on earth you're talking about. You need to give some background for people who haven't read the manga. It sounds like you may have meant 'Seras' where you wrote 'Alucard'. In that case, I think the choice is pretty clear - living as a vampire in the Hellsingverse has almost no drawbacks. By the way, you'd probably get a better response if you put this sort of thing in the Fantasy forum.

[Ghost Rider]

Okay, going to retitle it because as it stands, you basically are asking for a move to Fantasy real quick.

[Darth Wong]

When I saw the thread title, I thought we would be asked whether we'd accept a job as White House Press Secretary for the Bush Administration.

[Stark]

It would depend on the type of vampirism, if I had to become a mindless bloodsucker who exploded at the slightest hint of sunlight or silver/garlic, I'd most likely choose to die a human. But if it were the "not really affected by sunlight, stronger, faster, and only a mild craving for blood" type of vampire, I would probably choose to keep going.

Sorry, becoming a predator of humans is a bit far for me. It's absurd to make this decision based on how awesome it would be for *you* - I thought this thread would be about some generic 'monster' thing. If you knew you were going to become something that would hurt others (like a White House Press Secretary) surely the best thing to do would be to die first, saving your potential victims. Becoming a threat to others is unacceptable to me, and I find the laughable 'justifications' of vampirism utterly disgusting.

[K. A. Pital]

If I become like Alucard, even 1/10th of the power... holy shit.

[Covenant]

If you knew you were going to become something that would hurt others (like a White House Press Secretary) surely the best thing to do would be to die first, saving your potential victims. Becoming a threat to others is unacceptable to me, and I find the laughable 'justifications' of vampirism utterly disgusting.

Aww c'mon, can't you think of enough lousy people to prey upon to justify it? There's gotta be enough scum out there.

Regardless, I'd find vampirism pretty reprehensible. It's being the embodiment of plagues and parasites, so while I'd probably take the option just to extend my life and give me more time to think about it, I may end up just letting myself die off later. If the cost is too high, I just won't pay it. No reason to punish everyone else.

However, if the form of being a monster is less damaging to the people around me (but also frought with super powers of some other variety) I could see it. Especially if I could make myself into a Superhero and whack badguys. I'm also sure if I could demonstrate an inability to be killed that I would first attempt to claim the Randi prize and get myself a nice nest egg. Worst case, I just donate it to charity.

[LeftWingExtremist]

When I saw the thread title, I thought we would be asked whether we'd accept a job as White House Press Secretary for the Bush Administration.

Wow ! Can anything be worse.

On one side, being a human supremacist, I would hate the very idea of becoming a vampire, that said, I'm not sure whether I would have the heart to kill myslef.

[Sarevok]

Sorry, becoming a predator of humans is a bit far for me. It's absurd to make this decision based on how awesome it would be for *you* - I thought this thread would be about some generic 'monster' thing. If you knew you were going to become something that would hurt others (like a White House Press Secretary) surely the best thing to do would be to die first, saving your potential victims. Becoming a threat to others is unacceptable to me, and I find the laughable 'justifications' of vampirism utterly disgusting.

That's easy for you to say because you havent been approached by a vampire offering you a chance at unlife.

Seriously if you had a real chance at gaining immortality and supernatural powers would you still refuse ? You care enough about ethics to refuse an offer like that ? That is the problem. It is easy to say something is unethical. But if it comes with great power most people would still go ahead. I am sure 90 % of people who think vamprisism is rephrensible would jump at the chance of becoming a vampire if they were approached by a real vampire.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

I suppose it depends, really. In different stories, Vampires can vary greatly. In Buffy and Angel, Vampires are soulless monsters that are harmed by sunlight and fire, and don't have any more real strengths than a mortal, except for the whole immortality thing. They almost always kill their victims. I'd not choose to be something like this under any circumstance, and would rather die.

However, Vampires in something like... Vampire: The Masquerade, for example. Hard to kill (Fire and sunlight are really the best methods), they aren't irredeemable soulless monsters, they have an impressive array of mystical abilities, they live forever, and they can feed without killing or even harming their victims. If I had the choice between dying right now, or becoming that, I think the choice would be easy to make.

With Hellsing vampires, the choice is even more obvious, except I'm quite fond of Silver, which is a pain, but oh-well. They seem capable of being in sunlight, so they're really just undead humans who don't rot and are stronger and better in every way.

[PeZook]

Uh, no. I'd go insane if I couldn't see sunlight ever again.
Also, I hate plots, backstabbing and intrigue, which is commom in most depictions of vampires (especially in Vampire: The Masquerade). In V:TM, you basically become a slave to one faction or another, can't ever see sunlight again or contact your friends and family, and werewolves hunt you mercilessly all the time. Oh, and most of your new associates are total dicks.

But yeah, you get to run real fast and can't be shot. I mean, so cool man! Untill someone throws you away as expendable cannon fodder in another round of a millenia-long, pointless conflict.

No, thanks. Vampirism sucks dick.

P.S.
Take note, the only vampiric setting I know is V:TM and common folk legends, which aren't really more endearing. I can't speak for hellsingverse.

[K. A. Pital]

If you become a Hellsingverse vampire, you, as an undead, can mete out justice at the most reprehensible villains of the world and buy blood from medical shops.

Essentially you're a superhuman who needs blood, not even killing people.

But with such superpowers the most obvious place for you is some sort of conflict. Go join or even lead a revolution in the Third World, kill bad guys and all that without much fear for your life (even Alucard's silly protege Victoria was powerful enough to survive being shot, not speaking of the powers Alucard himself wields, as well as lesser vampires).

In Hellsing vampires are also independent and they would not get hunted unless they are idiotic enough to:
a) cross Alucard for a challenge
b) cross some holy super-duper fraction like the Vatican's XIII, undead Nazis or the Hellsing itself
c) go on a killing rampage which will inevitably draw attention of such factions

The best idea if you're a HS vampire would be to go and join some sort of 3W civil conflict, pick your side and fight. It's not as if people who are dead anyway care about their blood. You can even become an immortal leader of this country, and as an immortal, you can harness enough wisdom and knowledge to lead it to great times.

[Winston Blake]

If I become like Alucard, even 1/10th of the power... holy shit.

You wouldn't, you'd be like Seras. 'Course, you'd have to be a virgin. Regarding harming others, Alucard himself drinks blood bought from blood banks instead of eating people (most of the time), so that's no problem in the Hellsingverse. In fact, in any setting where you're not compelled to drink live human blood (by demonic lust or maybe peer blackmail), you could choose to get blood without hurting people.

Losing your mental faculties and becoming a slave to such immoral vampiric desires would be much worse than death since you (as a mind) not only die, you also take down innocent people too. Choosing death is obviously better there.

So really, the question of 'living as a monster' needs clarification over whether monster means 'this is a class of sapient being that's happens to be called a monster', or 'RAR! bloodgurgle clawing eat-'em-all!!'

[K. A. Pital]

You wouldn't, you'd be like Seras.

She's also quite uber. I would take that over death any day.

[Molyneux]

Can anyone say...Confessor?

Depends on what kind of vampire you would become, really.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Another vote for "what kind of vampire ?"

These Hellsing vamps sound like something I'd go for.

On the other hand, I recall the vampire in one of the Hawk & Fisher books; it was a blood drinking corpse that looked like a corpse, complete with mold. Not to mention murderous. That's something I'd choose death over.

As long as I get to pretty much keep my personality, don't need to kill people, don't end up gruesomely changed physically, and don't end up the slave of some Master Vampire Anita Blakeverse style, I'd probably go for it. Avoiding sunlight, crosses and garlic ( even if those flaws are included ) is a small price to pay for immortality.

[LeftWingExtremist]

Sorry, becoming a predator of humans is a bit far for me. It's absurd to make this decision based on how awesome it would be for *you* - I thought this thread would be about some generic 'monster' thing. If you knew you were going to become something that would hurt others (like a White House Press Secretary) surely the best thing to do would be to die first, saving your potential victims. Becoming a threat to others is unacceptable to me, and I find the laughable 'justifications' of vampirism utterly disgusting.

That's easy for you to say because you havent been approached by a vampire offering you a chance at unlife.

Seriously if you had a real chance at gaining immortality and supernatural powers would you still refuse ? You care enough about ethics to refuse an offer like that ? That is the problem. It is easy to say something is unethical. But if it comes with great power most people would still go ahead. I am sure 90 % of people who think vamprisism is rephrensible would jump at the chance of becoming a vampire if they were approached by a real vampire.

Well for myself it wouldn't be a matter of wanting power and all, I still hate the very concept of being a vampire or any non human creature (especcially one that preys on other humans). My main qualms are whether I would be mentally able to knock myself off.

On another note, I honestly don't think I could get into the gothic culture that vampires seem to have. I honestly hope that being bitten doesn't have this gothifying effect on me.

[Xon]

You wouldn't, you'd be like Seras.

In a highly weakend state because she starves herself (and according the manga hasnt yet taken the final steps of playing collecter of souls who willingly give themselves to her), she gets her neck snapped like a twig and several large wholes in the chest.

Less than a minute or 2 later she is up bitching about it.

[Stark]

That's easy for you to say because you havent been approached by a vampire offering you a chance at unlife.

Seriously if you had a real chance at gaining immortality and supernatural powers would you still refuse ? You care enough about ethics to refuse an offer like that ? That is the problem. It is easy to say something is unethical. But if it comes with great power most people would still go ahead. I am sure 90 % of people who think vamprisism is rephrensible would jump at the chance of becoming a vampire if they were approached by a real vampire.

Sorry, turning myself into an addict with superpowers doesn't appeal. All the 'oh yeah I'd only eat bad people' stuff is just hilarious: if you became powerful, it's clearly going to change your perspective enough to render any decision you make beforehand of dubious utility. I know *now* that such a decision would result in me doing things I don't want to do *later*. I find all this 'lol you are lying about not wanting to be a vampire vampires rule lol' stuff deeply lame. In any case, such massive changes would transform me into something unrecognisable. Don't tell me - you'd be the vampire who never hurts good people, never does anything immoral and plays 360 right?

PS, you're only 'immortal' if you can't die. Vampires can die. But since the whole question has been distorted into pathetic Helsing fanwhoring, any chance of an actual ethical discussion is clearly past. As Blake says, the question is vague enough (although it's clearly Helsing wankpires) to require clarification.

[Brain_Caster]

When I saw the thread title, I thought we would be asked whether we'd accept a job as White House Press Secretary for the Bush Administration.

And? Would you?

[Ritterin Sophia]

What objective good can anyone do as White House Press Secretary?

[Adrian Laguna]

Sorry, turning myself into an addict with superpowers doesn't appeal. All the 'oh yeah I'd only eat bad people' stuff is just hilarious: if you became powerful, it's clearly going to change your perspective enough to render any decision you make beforehand of dubious utility. I know *now* that such a decision would result in me doing things I don't want to do *later*.

The way I figured it, you can turn yourself into a vampire just to try it, if it's that bad suicide is always an option. However Stark raises a valid point. At present I might consider suicide as an option if vampirism leads to unacceptable results, but later on there's a high chance I wouldn't go through with it even if I think I should for the good of the general populace.

On the other hand, stalking the jungles of some third-world shithole looking for prey sounds like a fun career choice. But at that point we're throwing moral concerns out the window.

[VT-16]

The problem with Hellsing's monsters is that they eventually fall prey to their monsterous natures, by inciting wars and serving their bloodlust.

Alucard basically welcomed Millennium's coming invasion with open arms, and kept a stash of tens of thousands of lost souls, people he's devoured over a period of half a millennium, locked up as a life-reserve. He gets easily bored when there's no promise of fighting or killing, and got locked up by his master for decades because it became addicting to use him as a weapon. Ultimately, it's revealed in a flashback by Arthur Hellsing that he pitys Alucard and monsters like him, because their behaviour is like a cry for help, they want someone to eventually end their rampage because they can't stop themselves.

If Seras goes long enough, she might end up the same way. She's already changed into a fully-fledged vampire, with each kill getting easier and easier.

[Stark]

The way I figured it, you can turn yourself into a vampire just to try it, if it's that bad suicide is always an option. However Stark raises a valid point. At present I might consider suicide as an option if vampirism leads to unacceptable results, but later on there's a high chance I wouldn't go through with it even if I think I should for the good of the general populace.

Yeah, such naive ideas fly in the face of history, psychology, etc. If you decide to only do good things, then get huge power with zero consequences, your perspective is distorted and things that were unacceptable before don't seem so bad. Frankly, if you're going to live forever barring accidents and eat people to live, it seems to me that you'd quickly become brutalised into a different lifestyle - after all, if you're going to live forever unless someone kills you, you're going to make DAMN SURE nobody can. No matter the cost.

On the other hand, stalking the jungles of some third-world shithole looking for prey sounds like a fun career choice. But at that point we're throwing moral concerns out the window.

It also sounds like a fucking awful way to spend eternity. Yeah, lets become immortal and spend HUNDREDS OF YEARS in shit places eating bad people. That won't embitter you or colour your perspective of humans at all.