To live as a monster or die as a human

[Adrian Laguna]

On the other hand, stalking the jungles of some third-world shithole looking for prey sounds like a fun career choice. But at that point we're throwing moral concerns out the window.

It also sounds like a fucking awful way to spend eternity. Yeah, lets become immortal and spend HUNDREDS OF YEARS in shit places eating bad people. That won't embitter you or colour your perspective of humans at all.

I didn't mean it as a way to spend eternity. Just until I find a prey that I can't beat or the hunt becomes a bore because I've gotten too good at it.

[LeftWingExtremist]

The way I figured it, you can turn yourself into a vampire just to try it, if it's that bad suicide is always an option. However Stark raises a valid point. At present I might consider suicide as an option if vampirism leads to unacceptable results, but later on there's a high chance I wouldn't go through with it even if I think I should for the good of the general populace.

Yeah, such naive ideas fly in the face of history, psychology, etc. If you decide to only do good things, then get huge power with zero consequences, your perspective is distorted and things that were unacceptable before don't seem so bad. Frankly, if you're going to live forever barring accidents and eat people to live, it seems to me that you'd quickly become brutalised into a different lifestyle - after all, if you're going to live forever unless someone kills you, you're going to make DAMN SURE nobody can. No matter the cost.

On the other hand, stalking the jungles of some third-world shithole looking for prey sounds like a fun career choice. But at that point we're throwing moral concerns out the window.

It also sounds like a fucking awful way to spend eternity. Yeah, lets become immortal and spend HUNDREDS OF YEARS in shit places eating bad people. That won't embitter you or colour your perspective of humans at all.

Well that's why I would try to kill myself before I get used to the idea or even before I fully "turn". If I don't have the guts to do it then I certainly wouldn't later. Chances are however I would probably have to get somone else to do it 'cause I don't see me killing myself. But I know for sure that I would hate being a vampire, I don't want to give up my humanity for any kind of power (including immortality). I'm just not sure whether I would kill myself to get out of it, or even if I wanted to die whether I would have the mental capacity to do the deed.

[Stark]

Frankly whether or not you hate the idea, after you've changed and become super powerful (particularly after some days of experiencing the practical immortality and control of others) you may well have changed so much that you don't hate it anymore.

[darthbob88]

As others have noted, it depends on the powers I'd get as a monster. A walking corpse is no great improvement over a still one; however, if I could become something like Alucard the Uber, then I'd happily take it. Resist the urge as much as possible, learn to drink pig's blood, and hole up while some secret investments I make start to fund projects I have. Immortality is a long time to spend making the world better.

[Stark]

And limitless power never corrupted anyone, right - especially not power derived from blood and domination! Your armchair decisions now are totally applicable to an utterly transformed, super-powered predatory version of yourself!

[K. A. Pital]

And limitless power never corrupted anyone, right

Usually the people were corrupted on the path to power already, by the things they should've done to get there, the character traits that they worked during their rise, et cetera.

Here we have an immediate transition from "random goon" to "Victoria-level vampire". And we have seen quite well, Victoria herself was quite capable of being uber and drinking medical blood, Alucard himself did it, and neither of the vampires lost control over their mental faculties.

Remember also that Alucard became like he was during the centuries. Given the fact he was a brutal warlord probably even before he became a vampire, his corruption is understandable.

After all, unlike Victoria, Alucard doesn't really think about using his power for good, he does it only because he serves Hellsing. Victoria on the other hand often does good out of her own heart, and I could quite see her becoming some Third World country benevolent leader if she was set free by Hellsing.

[Guardsman Bass]

Seras didn't seem to morph into something utterly unlike herself after turning- she was loathe to drink any blood. It's not like you're completely warped into some kind of malevolent predatory being unlike yourself when it happens (at least for sure).

[Stark]

Oh sorry I thought we were having a discussion about what happens to real people when given widespread powers with little to no consequence, not talking Helsing trivia. My mistake?

[K. A. Pital]

The thing is, getting absolutely corrupt is not a matter of one second and with sufficient determination you could resist it _if_ the vampirism does not affect your intelligence. If it doesn't then the question is really not "would you die or live as a vampire" but "would you die or live as a super-powered being". If you're prone to corruption, putting you in a power position like, say, a state leader would have the same effect as making you a powerful vampire.

The question is, would you die or take the power and risk being corrupted? I don't think anyone here if faced with a question "die or be President" would say "die", and "die and become a powerful vampire" barely changes the situation - why would you refuse this power but not the other?

[Stark]

Because being President isn't 'unlimited power' with 'little to no consequence'. I can pretty clearly see what would happen to me if I became a wankpire - while being President would make me a selfish asshole with a broken perspective, I won't be a selfish asshole with a broken perspecitive who lives forever and can control people.

[K. A. Pital]

I can pretty clearly see what would happen to me if I became a wankpire - while being President would make me a selfish asshole with a broken perspective, I won't be a selfish asshole with a broken perspecitive who lives forever and can control people

Well, immortality isn't a super-power par se, it's just a given trait for the vampire. I don't know how it could seriously skew your perspective in the near term - people can't comprehend time much greater than the immediate perspective of several years, so I don't think realizing you're technically immortal will have much to do with your actions, at least in the first century or so. Post that, perhaps the longitude of your lifetime and experience will start to influence your actions - but I don't think this influence would necessary be malicious.

And a corrupt President or dictator not controlling people? Pfft.

[Imperial Overlord]

A corrupt president or dictator is subject to consequences for his actions in the form of assassination, revolution, invasion, coup, or similar events.

With mind control you can rape, murder, and steal without anyone ever knowing about it. Anytime you get the urge, you can perform terrible violations and with immortality and a predatory relationship with humans thrown in, you'll get the urge. It's natural to dehumanize your victims and with eternity, it won't be long before you're inclined to think of them as a form of cattle.

It probably won't take too long as abusing your powers will be so damn easy and so damn rewarding.

[K. A. Pital]

With mind control you can rape, murder, and steal without anyone ever knowing about it.

Did they even have such strong mind control powers in Hellsing? If so, why didn't Alucard mindfuck all humans around, there were quite a few situations where that would be handy? And as far as I remember, even a member of the Millenium who had special mind control powers was not able to take complete mind control over Hellsing's human mercs. Much less so beings like Victoria are capable of such.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Well i'll be honest...

I'm terrified of death. It scares me immensely, the very idea sometimes keeps me awake at night, in all honesty. And not to sound like that priest from John Carpenter's Vampires...in spite of (or perhaps because) i believe in God and an afterlife i'm also keenly aware that science doesnt agree with me on that and it sends a chill up my spine to even consider the idea of my consciousness dying. Even if my body died but my consciousness lived on in a shell somewhere i think i'd be happier with that fate that true death.

For that simple, selfish reason i'd chose to be a Helsing Vampire.

It's not about the powers, i dont want and have no desire to rule over anyone or anything. Frankly the idea i can live forever just sounds too appealing for me to resist. I know that and if the choice was given to me i know i wouldnt be able to say no. I just couldnt, and thats sad and shows me that i'm weak but thats God's honest truth man.

[Imperial Overlord]

With mind control you can rape, murder, and steal without anyone ever knowing about it.

Did they even have such strong mind control powers in Hellsing? If so, why didn't Alucard mindfuck all humans around, there were quite a few situations where that would be handy? And as far as I remember, even a member of the Millenium who had special mind control powers was not able to take complete mind control over Hellsing's human mercs. Much less so beings like Victoria are capable of such.

I don't know and don't care. The threads about vampirism in general, not the minutea of a crappy anime. Mind control is about the most abusable power there is and most forms of fictional vampire have it in spades.

[Solauren]

Depends on the type of vampirism, and how much of me I'll retain (if know able).

If drinking non-human blood is an option, I wouldn't have a problem and try it.

If drinking human blood was the only method, but it wouldn't be a blood-craving lunatic over it, and I didn't have to kill or turn anyone, I'd also be tempted to try it.

I'm sure I could find or found a vampire-worshipping cult that would happily let me drink from them. Or I could pray on criminals.

However, if I know the option is to become like a beast, not interested. I like my cognitive abilities.

(For what little use I use them)

[K. A. Pital]

I don't know and don't care. The threads about vampirism in general, not the minutea of a crappy anime. Mind control is about the most abusable power there is and most forms of fictional vampire have it in spades.

Which depiction of vampirism grants such powers? "Most forms"? Does the original Dracula have it? Or the Hellsing which were chosen as the example in the OP? I don't think so. Which fictional vampires have this power?

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'm...pretty sure, 90% sure, that just about every incarnation of Dracula has the power of mind control. Some also have shapeshifting powers and control over vermin, and the majority of Vampires are shown to at the very least have a kind of 'charm' or 'Jedi Mind Trick' power to make people like and/or follow them. Thats why they always have minions, henchmen and lackeys.

[K. A. Pital]

I'm...pretty sure, 90% sure, that just about every incarnation of Dracula has the power of mind control.

So he can mindfuck whoever he likes? Why doesn't he then do it all the time? I know about the "vampire charm" thing which causes women to become mindlessly attracted to the vampire, but "mind control"?

[Invictus ChiKen]

When I saw the thread title, I thought we would be asked whether we'd accept a job as White House Press Secretary for the Bush Administration.

So Mike... would YOU?

[Imperial Overlord]

I'm...pretty sure, 90% sure, that just about every incarnation of Dracula has the power of mind control.

So he can mindfuck whoever he likes? Why doesn't he then do it all the time? I know about the "vampire charm" thing which causes women to become mindlessly attracted to the vampire, but "mind control"?

You might have noticed that most vampire stories have vampires being fucking stupid. Like leaving blood drained bodies with teeth marks in there necks everywhere. The actual book Dracula is a mess and really a crappy Victorian horror novel about the evils of sex.

Vampires for say Barbara Hambley's Those Who Hunt the Night (who are fairly low powered but not moronic) get away with mind control and murder on a regular basis just by using a little intelligence despite their multible weaknesses.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I don't know and don't care. The threads about vampirism in general, not the minutea of a crappy anime. Mind control is about the most abusable power there is and most forms of fictional vampire have it in spades.

Which depiction of vampirism grants such powers? "Most forms"? Does the original Dracula have it? Or the Hellsing which were chosen as the example in the OP? I don't think so. Which fictional vampires have this power?

Offhand, Anita Blake vampires can enslave people, implant false memories, induce emotions, make themselves "invisible", and make somone enjoy being killed.

Tanya Huff's Blood series vamps can implant suggestions and fuzz memories.

Garretverse vampires can paralyze with their gaze.

Sabrehagen vamps also can hypnotise; I don't recall how good they are.

P.N. Elrod vampires can implant compulsions and false memories, induce compliance, or permanent insanity.

[Covenant]

I still disagree with the idea that I personally would become a crazyass evil fuck if I was granted infinite cosmic power and the need to bit people. I don't disagree with the idea that in general, this is probably something that would happen, and that generally the people who seek power are the ones who do not deserve it, but I'm just saying I don't believe that just because I had vastly superior power that I would by necessity become violent and awful.

When I play a game like Black&White, where I have little citizens to care for, I don't enjoy torturing them. I always play it good, even when I don't have to! So while people can say "I don't trust myself" or "I don't trust you" I don't like being yelled at for believing I wouldn't become a horrible corrupted monster. I have no illusions of righteousness, I just don't think I'd do evil things. Even when I have the option of getting away with things even as easy as petty thievery, I'm not fighting an urge.

Anyway, who said they HAD to be a Vampire? Vampires are disgusting. Can't we be a different type of monster? :p

[Imperial Overlord]

I still disagree with the idea that I personally would become a crazyass evil fuck if I was granted infinite cosmic power and the need to bit people. I don't disagree with the idea that in general, this is probably something that would happen, and that generally the people who seek power are the ones who do not deserve it, but I'm just saying I don't believe that just because I had vastly superior power that I would by necessity become violent and awful.

You wouldn't. Not at first. But there is no way that you're going to think ordinary humans are your equals. Short lived, stupid, weak, herdable, and fragile. It'll happen piece by piece. You might not be even that bad, comparatively speaking. It's possible that you will do things that will benefit humanity as a whole. But you will become corrupt. That's what power without boundaries does.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Personally i dont see humans as THAT bad as it is.

Humans suffer the problems that any sentient species would, i imagine, which is that while normal people generally good sometimes stupidity and circumstance causes them to do bad things. Except sociopaths who arent normal so dont fall into the above description.

That being said even asone of the uberest Vampire breeds around (like Helsing or Dracula) i dont think i would have trouble seeing normal humans as my equals.

Besides...who the fuck am I to talk? I'm a walking corpse with magic who drinks blood, thats not even the pot calling the kettle black thats like a rapist calling a pedophile a degenerate.