Islamic "doctor" states that science confirms Qura

[TithonusSyndrome]

I don't how many people here are farmiliar with the kind of pseudoscientific gobbledygook that certain Islamic scholars put out, but I've run into one such article by Dr. Salama Abdel-Hady. It might make for good practice for debunking the less common Muslim ID'ers out there.

By Dr :Salama Abdel-Hady

Firstly, this article is not a trial to give exegesis to the verses of the Koran, because no one can reach the optimum suitable exegesis to any verse. Our knowledge is too much below the true understanding of such verses. However, it is merely a trial to approach, according to the limits of personnel knowledge, the meanings of such verses. As my knowledge is too much limited, there is still a wide margin to be explained by others who are more specialized and others who will come and know more secrets of the universe.

In this presented article, we will look at some verses from a chapter of the Koran called “surat Al-Anbyaa”, where we can see how these verses are directing us to think the wisdom of the Creator and his oneness through highly mental and scientific proofs. These verses discuss the beginning , the sustainability, and the end of the universe. The scientists tried to answer some questions as how such universe had started so uniquely and so neatly, how it is surviving in such ordered form, and how will be its end. They observed the materials of the stars and planets of the universe. They find them similar. They observe the system of motion of these stars inside groups; ways and they scan the planets that follow these stars. They observe the sizes and the life of these stars and find that there exist specific laws that govern all of these systems, groups, elements and bodies of the universe. They found that such systems are actually following specific programmed procedures in their life. So, they conclude that all these stars should come from one origin. They tried to know and explain the reason of the found uniqueness in every thing. So, they assume that there was in the beginning a compacted substance that was pressed in a very limited space under an infinite pressure. They claim too that there happens in a moment a great explosion that caused this substance to be turned into waves. Such waves spread throughout the universe in a moment. Due to the extreme coldness of this universe, these waves are changed into similar atoms in no time elapse. Then these atoms are grouped into similar stars obeying similar laws that control their motion, emissions, lifetime, and transformations in the same moment!! The stars were also grouped in such moment into similar “ways” that were also obeying similar laws!!

But the logical thinking should state that the explosion couldn’t lead to the found homogeneity and such observed uniqueness. But the explosion should lead to a destruction and an unbalance, not to such organized sky and magnificent earth with highly ordered systems obeying strictly justified laws or rules.

No one knows the facts regarding the start of creation. But the Creator of the whole universe ,Who managed such start knows these facts. He told us in His last Word that was revealed to Mohamed, many scientific and logical facts regarding such start. Let us read how Allah directs us to the truth through a scientific question concerning the start of the universe and look to His guidance to the actual answer. Let us read the verse number 30 from Surat “Al-Anbyaa”:
God says in the Holy Quran what means "Have not those who disbelieves seen that the heavens and the earth were originally joined together as a Ratk , then we Fatak-nahoma (by Allah’s Will). And we have made from the water every living thing. (Why) Will they not then believe (the existence of a Supreme Creator)? (30/ 21)

Scientific comment (or a trial of explanation): In this verse, we read a question directed to the disbelievers who denied the hand of the God in starting the creation of the universe so nicely and orderly. The question is: Can this start, after they saw or observed, be done really by just a chance? By two words “Ratk” and “Fatak”, Allah summarized all their illogic words that the disbelievers assume its occurrence. Those disbelievers tried to explain the uniqueness they find in the whole universe by the words: “highly compacted substance”, “momentarily great explosion”, “ sudden cooling “, and so on. Those scientists were correct in concluding that the whole creation starts from a single origin. The Koran described such origin by the Arabic word “Ratk”, that means (in Arabic) a connected and compacted piece of woven fibers or material. But those materialistic scientists were misled when they imagine that this material is transformed or spread into such magnificent order by itself. They should confess that all of these were done by the Power of the Creator and by His Will in order to be scientific or logical in their conclusions. The Creator describes the spread of this compacted material by the word “fatak-nahoma”. This word means that He separated this compacted woven material (the Ratk) into homogenous fibers by His Will to form the earth and the heavens in such ordered and unique form. We see such homogeneity of the fibers or the constituents that filled the universe orderly, where the materials of the sun are similar to materials on the earth, on the moon, on other planets, and on any other star. And all these materials are formed by atoms of similar constituents, i.e. nucleus of positive charge and electrons of negative charge. Such homogeneity and order started from the first moment of creation because such creation is done by one Creator and is fulfilled in a single order. I think the word Ratk as a woven piece of cloth is much better in expressing the start than the assumed compressed material. And the word fatak-nahoma that means forming the skies and the earth by spreading the fibers of such Ratk by the Will of Allah into such order is better than the claimed expression of great explosion. So, the materialistic researchers should leave their illogic assumptions of a universe exploding itself in a wise manner and they should confess the truth in theses words in the glorious Quran. Such confession will lead them to be true believers of a true religion that came to correct all mysterious and illogical beliefs.

The Holy verse “We have made from water every thing living” is mentioned at the end of this verse. As Allah states in this verse that He started the creation of the universe from such compacted or woven material, He states too that the creation of the living creatures started from water. These are the words of the Creator. Of course, according to our knowledge, if there were no water, there would be no life. The main proof of that is stemmed from just a look to the planets around us. As there is no water in other planets, we find no life over them. However, we do not know the meaning of “life”, or the difference between the dead cells and the living cells. In any living cell or organism, we find that the water is representing more than 70 % of its weight. So without this water, there would be no sign for life at all. But we really ignore fully the essence of life in such cells. Of course the cell is the building block of every living creature; man, animal, insect, or a plant.However, we can go deeper in that verse telling that the most acids and compositions inside the cell, are formed mainly from the Hydrogen and Oxygen arranged in complicated chains and extremely ordered compounds that depends on the structure of each cell. These two gases, Hydrogen and the Oxygen, are the elements that formed water, and they may be the building blocks for every other large atom of the remaining substances in the cells. However, our knowledge or ability is limited to have a deeper explanation for this verse as it can be understood only by Heavenly inspiration . Of course, readers of higher knowledge and deeper thinking may attain a better explanation than me. Perhaps, the discoveries that will come after will lead also to a better understanding of this verse.
However, anyone who looks to the living cell and looks at its giant molecules and organic chains cannot deny the hand of the Creator. As we cannot deny the hands of the Creator in such giant universe, we should not ignore also the straight logic and assume that the nature has formed such extremely complicated chains in the organic cell containing millions of atoms of different substances in a specific order. Similarly, we cannot assume that the nature is gifting the essence of life to such complicated chemical chains inside these cells to have the ability to move, breathe, feed, burn, digest, exert and even to think. Allah states in this verse that it is He Who creates these cells starting from water and its constituent gases, Hydrogen and Oxygen, and then He gives it life, such are unknown secret to us. Is there anyone, other than Allah, may claim that he had done it in this way or how it is done. Or, can anyone assume that it is done without a Wise Creator? As mentioned above, the water is not only the origin for starting the creation, but also it sustains life. That means life of all the living creatures depends on such magic fluid. Its secrets are also confine to the Creator. If we insert any seed in the earth, we will find that its growth is connected with existence of water. So, the plant could not live without such water and without the plant our life would not continue. Few words in this verse have summarized the secrets of life and answered hundreds of inscrutable questions; because it is surely revealed from the Creator, Who knows actually His creation and its secrets. I think to confess one secret, will open for us all the ambiguous secrets, the universe has one Glorious Creator, Who reveals this Quran.

Let us read the next verses, number 31-33, that follows the previous verse in Surat Al-Anbyaa. We can find that these verses are better also understood by the use of modern discovered scientific facts. These verses are showing the evidences of Wisdom and Mercy of the Creator.

God says in the Holy Quran what means "And We have placed in the earth Rawasi , lest it (the earth’s crust) may tameed with them, and We placed too (on this earth’s crust) the firm and available routes that guide their passages.

And We have made the sky (that surrounds the earth) as a safe and well-guarded roof, but they (the disbelievers) are abundant from its evidence (the sky as an evidence for the God’s wisdom)

And He is Who has created the night and the day, the sun and the moon, each is floating in its orbit. (31 – 33 /21)
Scientific comments: Looking at these successive verses of this Surat, we find that they point also to other scientific facts, as if it is just written in the twenty-one century, and not from more than fourteen centuries. The Creator informed us in these verses that He has designed a special planet for us, the earth, with a specific mass and extension and a guarded sky to suit and sustain our life. He also arranged for us such stable - earth’s crust to have the opportunity to move freely on its surface. He has mentioned also that it is His Will to arrange for us certain duration for the day and the night related to the motion of the sun and the moon in highly controlled orbits by His Science and Wisdom. So, it is an announcement that the order seen in such highly controlled universe is His Will and His creation.

In order to understand the wisdom of Allah in the creation of our earth and its special sky, let us have a look to the planets of the solar system.

Let us start with a planet called Mercury. It is the smallest planet in the solar system and it is very near to our earth but is closer to the sun. Its mass is less than the mass of the earth (the mass of the earth is 0.0543). So, its ability to attract bodies is about one third of the earth’s gravity. So, our motion on such planet will not be stable due to such low gravity, and such planet is not able to attract a similar atmosphere or biosphere as that which is surrounding our earth. As it hasn’t such atmosphere, the surface of such planet is not protected against the shooting stars hitting its surface or the sun’s harmful radiation. So, the surface of such planet is covered with deep holes due to the impact of such bodies on its surface, and such surface will not be allowing any possible motion or human’s life there. The structure of Mercury have affected its spinning or its day-duration. So, one day on this planet is equivalent to 88 days on the earth. Such low speed affects the temperatures on its surface where it may reach 400 C on the radiated face (radiation from the sun) and – 180 C on the dark face. Therefore, no trace of any water is found on this planet and no trace of any life is noticed too.

Let us move to another planet called Venus. It is the closest planet to our earth in the solar system, and has about the same mass and volume as the earth. However, it is closer to the sun. Having the same weight as the earth, it has also about the same gravity and similar ability to keep specific atmosphere. However, the atmosphere of Venus is formed mainly of a heavy gas called “Carbon-Dioxide”, and its clouds are formed of vapors of Sulfuric acid. As Carbon Dioxide is a compound and heavy gas, it has the ability to absorb the solar radiation that turns the atmosphere of such planet into a hell. The acidic clouds of such planets drop acidic rain that influences the surface of the planet and turns it to be a soft one that prevents any motion on it. However, due to the nature of its rawasi (contents), a day on Venus is equivalent to about 243 days of the earth. Due to its closeness to the sun and its long day, the temperature of the radiated face of this planet reaches 450 C, and the atmospheric pressure jumps to 90 bars. So, such pressure, temperature, atmospheric and surface conditions prevent the existence of water or any biological life on such planet.

And if we look also to the known Mars as a planet just next to our earth, it has about the same length or duration of the day as the earth. But the atmosphere of such planet is formed also of the Carbon Dioxide under extremely low pressure. As Mars is farther from the sun, so its temperature has a maximum value of – 40 C, and reaches (123 C) in most times. At such low temperature, we find that the water content of such planet is in a frozen state. Hence, no trace of life is seen on such planet and will not be seen either.

After this tour over some planets of our solar system, we get a better understanding of these verses. The earth is designed to keep water in its liquid phase and to keep the life on its surface by extensively ordered arrangements prepared by a Supreme Creator “Allah”. The sky of the earth was designed to be a guarded roof filled mainly by two gases, Oxygen and Nitrogen. Both of these gases are not absorbing the sun’s radiation but allowing them to pass and allowing also suitable environments for the life of the creatures on the earth. So, the sky of the earth has special contents that form “a safe and well guarded roof.” It protects the earth from the shooting stars, which are burnt when they approach the earth’s atmosphere, and from the harmful sun-radiation by the Ozone layers, which reflects back the harmful radiation. The stability of the earth’s crust is a result of the earth’s special mass and extent that are neatly designed. The mass and the orbits of the earth result from the specific content of the core of the earth, or the Rawasi in the earth’s core. Such contents give the earth a suitable gravity that keeps such atmosphere having suitable pressure, temperature and humidity. Such atmospheric conditions in the arranged and guarded sky offer a possible life on the earth for all creatures. It gives also the stability for all the creatures to move safely under suitable gravity during the rotation of the earth around itself and around the sun. Such rotation and distance from the sun are mastered also by such contents which give a certain degree of inclination to axis of rotation of the earth with respect to its axis of rotation around the sun and determine the earth’s magnetic field that effects the life and sustainability of all creatures. Of courses by such exact inclination, we have suitable and different weather condition during the four earth’s seasons.

After this look to our earth and to the other planets of the solar system, we are obliged to confess that our earth, as its Creator announces, is specially created with special environment for our life. Can any one claim that the nature has arranged all these peculiarities to our earth. Or can any one claims that he arranged it to us. Or can any one claim that a man like Mohamed had written by himself these verses since more than fourteen centuries.

After describing the process of starting the creation by the verse number 30, as have been seen, Allah informes us in the verse number 104, at the end of this Surat, about the future of such universe at its end, or in the Day of Resurrection:

God says in the Holy Quran what means " In that Day (Day of resurrection), We overlap the sky in the same way as the pages of a Book is overlapped, as we start the creation we return it (to its initial form), as We promise, and We should do (i.e. fulfill our promise)” 104/21

Scientific comment: In this verse, Allah describes the process of ending the life of the universe. It was started from this Ratq. So, its end will be returning it to the same origin by the same way as it was starting. At this end, the Creator revealed that He would overlap or (roll up) all the heavens to return to its origin as a Ratq. The revealed words show the Creator’s greatness. He says that He will overlap or (roll up) the skies as a one who is going to overlap the pages of a book. According to the scientific theories, the scientists proved that such end is waiting the universe. Those scientists told that after the continuous expansion of the universe, it would be collapsed in a self-contraction process. This will be done due to the limited material in the universe, which will not be ready for more expansion after the continuous widening of the universe. Hence, this material will be contracted and the size of the universe will be diminished once more to its initial size.

So, science is in full agreement with what have been mentioned in the Koran. But the Koran recites that it is the Will of Allah. And the scientists imagine in their theories that it is the will of the nature, as a very brain-full thing. Allah informs in His Koran that he determines the time of such contraction only, and the scientists imagine that such universe will decide the time of its damage by its own mind.

However, any man with a brain and smart heart will understand such eternal words as an announcement to worship Allah in a righteous way, as the next verse, verse number 106 from the same surah, states

God says in the Holy Quran what means " It is an announcement to worshipping (obeying) people" 106 / 21.

[Stark]

Oh I've read hilarious handout pamphlet things about how the Qu'ran is full of all kinds of awesome science - usually because it has the word 'squiggle' and DNA is kind of a squiggle HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT - THE ANSWER IS GOD.

[TithonusSyndrome]

Did you get the same one as I did? The one where since the Quran has a passage that kinda-sorta means "chewed gum" in it, and embryos look like chewed gum, that ZOMG ISLAM = SCIENCE?

[Stark]

Did you get the same one as I did? The one where since the Quran has a passage that kinda-sorta means "chewed gum" in it, and embryos look like chewed gum, that ZOMG ISLAM = SCIENCE?

You know, turns out you did. I thought that was awesome, especially with the little picture and the caption that basically said 'see? SEE? It's ALL TRUE see the shape????'

[Admiral Valdemar]

Creationists fundies thumping the Qu'ran? Say it ain't so!

[PainRack]

Creationists fundies thumping the Qu'ran? Say it ain't so!

Now now, I'm sure some christian will tell you that when you insult Creationism, you're actually insulting Christianity.........:

[Darth Servo]

Did you get the same one as I did? The one where since the Quran has a passage that kinda-sorta means "chewed gum" in it, and embryos look like chewed gum, that ZOMG ISLAM = SCIENCE?

You know, turns out you did. I thought that was awesome, especially with the little picture and the caption that basically said 'see? SEE? It's ALL TRUE see the shape????'

No, no, no, the word in the Quran describing a fetus was "WORM"

[Spin Echo]

Did you get the same one as I did? The one where since the Quran has a passage that kinda-sorta means "chewed gum" in it, and embryos look like chewed gum, that ZOMG ISLAM = SCIENCE?

You know, turns out you did. I thought that was awesome, especially with the little picture and the caption that basically said 'see? SEE? It's ALL TRUE see the shape????'

No, no, no, the word in the Quran describing a fetus was "WORM"

Someone should point out to these people that it's hardly surprising that people knew what a fetus looked like back then because you still had miscarriages in the 9th century.

[slebetman]

OK, I guess I've been lurking long enough. I'm a Muslim IDer. Since I'm probably going to get clusterfucked here, and considering I'm not a scholar in Islamic theology, you guys need to be patient with replies. It'll take time for me to search references. From my perspective:

Except for the evolution or humans, all other factual-sounding descriptions have turned out to be pretty much correct. There is only one remaining claimed fact that I know of that have not yet been verified by science (to the best of my knowledge): that mountains and mountain ranges stabilizes the movement of the crust. When it comes to human evolution the Quran is adamant that the story of Adam and Eve is literal, not figurative - so no room for interpretation there.

The Quran itself insists that humans (in some places it asks believers while in others it asks non-believers) verify it's claim by observation. Hence for most Muslims the Quran is the inspiration for studying science. At least it was for me.

So here goes. Questions?

[Rye]

Does the quran say the Earth is round (or flat) at any point, or that it orbits the Sun? I'm pretty sure there's still some Saudi Arabian sheikh or other claiming the world is flat because the quran says so.

What will you do when examining things objectively yields zero gods and the quran is just another old book of mythology, complete with desert spirits and flat earth cosmology?

[Rye]

Damn lack of edit!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ ... islam.html

That responds to the usual islamic creation/proof of special revelation/blah talking points.

[Patrick Degan]

Always notice that the emptier and more nonsensical an argument is, the more it's couched in reams of long-winded bullshit.

[Lord Zentei]

OK, I guess I've been lurking long enough. I'm a Muslim IDer. Since I'm probably going to get clusterfucked here, and considering I'm not a scholar in Islamic theology, you guys need to be patient with replies. It'll take time for me to search references. From my perspective:

Except for the evolution or humans, all other factual-sounding descriptions have turned out to be pretty much correct. There is only one remaining claimed fact that I know of that have not yet been verified by science (to the best of my knowledge): that mountains and mountain ranges stabilizes the movement of the crust. When it comes to human evolution the Quran is adamant that the story of Adam and Eve is literal, not figurative - so no room for interpretation there.

The Quran itself insists that humans (in some places it asks believers while in others it asks non-believers) verify it's claim by observation. Hence for most Muslims the Quran is the inspiration for studying science. At least it was for me.

So here goes. Questions?

This is from the Quran:

18:86 Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
18:87 He said: As for him who doeth wrong, we shall punish him, and then he will be brought back unto his Lord, Who will punish him with awful punishment!
18:88 But as for him who believeth and doeth right, good will be his reward, and We shall speak unto him a mild command.
18:89 Then he followed a road
18:90 Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

That doesn't sound very scientific to me.

Also:

"Who hath created seven heavens ... Canst thou see any rifts?"

From 67:3.

So.

[Darth Servo]

Someone should point out to these people that it's hardly surprising that people knew what a fetus looked like back then because you still had miscarriages in the 9th century.

Oh, it gets better. The pamphlet I saw referenced one small PART of a fetus that supposedly looked like a worm. Not the whole thing, making the Quran's "prediction" even MORE worthless since you could find parts of an embryo that look like many, many things.

[xillithidx]

*Catches the scent of another ethnocentric slam*

[Redleader34]

*charges up*Thats nice, and why do you say its ethonectric, want to back up what you say fuckhole, or should I have to slam you with DR6. Is Islam an ethnic group? Since when is Islam an ethnicity, if anything, your complaint should have been that it was anti Islam, but as SDN we are equal opportunity bashers.

[Ghost Rider]

Okay Redleader34

1. Put your dick back in, back seat moderating is against the rules as well, and no one is impressed.

2. He can make a comment, it matters whether or not he backs up the statement or makes it one note spam.

[xillithidx]

My, fuckhole brings about images of human currency in prison.

But my bad, I guess I should have added my reasoning with my previous post. But here it is:

A person’s opinion of what is science and what another believes science is will be understandably biased. The article by Dr. Salama Abdel-Hady says nothing “new”; the Quran has always stated that God created the planets, our atmosphere, etc. This article is saying it in a language that is more accepted today, right? No particularly new events, right? So my question turns to: was it the language, the scientific diction that the article was written in, that offended some, or more pointedly made it tred into the realm of “gooblygock”? In my view, this article is nothing more than an affirmation to the central text of Muslim life, and thus discrediting it IS being ethnocentric, because in the end your judging "Muslim Science" (if I may use that term, hehe) in relation to your own particular culture.

[xillithidx]

Actually though, I AM looking at the sentence that states this forum is for slamming creationism. lol, silly noob. *blush*

[Morilore]

In my view, this article is nothing more than an affirmation to the central text of Muslim life, and thus discrediting it IS being ethnocentric, because in the end your judging "Muslim Science" (if I may use that term, hehe) in relation to your own particular culture.

No. He made a claim that the methods of science reveal information that is always in line with the Koran. This is not only not true, it doesn't even make sense - the lines he uses are quite blatantly poetic language, vague and easily "interpreted."

[Stark]

Discrediting something stupid = racist now? Hilarious. I guess when we pick shit out of the OT we're hating on Jews now.

'Beliefs' about science? What does that even mean?

[Spin Echo]

'Beliefs' about science? What does that even mean?

I was wondering if we have another postmodernist about...

[Redleader34]

GhostRider: I fully and completely apologize for my rule breaking, and I will make sure it does not happen again

On the topic, Is it just me, or does the idea of Muslim Science sound bad to you, I mean, Mulslim Science, I thought Science

Science, in the broadest sense, refers to any system of objective knowledge. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

The defintion I mean is the objective Knowlge

[SirNitram]

In my view, this article is nothing more than an affirmation to the central text of Muslim life, and thus discrediting it IS being ethnocentric, because in the end your judging "Muslim Science" (if I may use that term, hehe) in relation to your own particular culture.

Are we defining objective science as an 'ethnicity', now? I had no idea it had been elevated to that level. That's the only ethnicity we could be being ethnocentric about.

It's also downright bizarre to see people stamp their feet about criticism of Islam being ethnocentric. While religion is a technical kind of ethnicity, it's so rarely used as to be archaic in that form. Then again, if you listen to the stupider members of society, the only muslims are brown folk....

[PainRack]

GhostRider: I fully and completely apologize for my rule breaking, and I will make sure it does not happen again

On the topic, Is it just me, or does the idea of Muslim Science sound bad to you, I mean, Mulslim Science, I thought Science

Science, in the broadest sense, refers to any system of objective knowledge. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.

The defintion I mean is the objective Knowlge

See the words objective knowledge. which means verifiable. I mean, there are hard sciences and soft sciences such as sociology and pyschology, but the reason why we classify them as science still is simply because we can compare it to reality.

Same for math actually..... I seen claims that Maths is too ethnocentric, ignoring Arabic mathamathics and Chinese mathamathics(whatever that means). If it works, then screw it, its math.