Last Bastion 3 Teaser!

[Lord Poe]

On SpaceBattles and impartiality: Most of the movies there are of the "Hundreds of ships duking it out" variety, with absolutely no characters in them. Why should they be the best judges of quality?

I've already sampled "Spacebattles impartiality." Here's a taste:

Link

Its pretty "meh" and hardly comes close to anything I'd label "ultimate".

that was so fucking horrible... seriously dude, get some better models for just about everything

its official, you suck. pick up your stupid little animation and take it over to SD-net, i'm sure that they'll appreciate it much more than we do. oh woe is me. such an ignorant bastard i am... oh WOE IS ME!

Its a pretty poor Act One opener and an "ultimate" ST vs SW film would have an obscene amount of ships on both sides slugging it out on even footing in an orgasmic display of utter disregard for canon\calcs.

Saw part 1 and it looked a little biased. Saw part 2 trailer and you can kiss my spotted Trill ass.

that wasn't very exciting. sorry but i was expecting a battle, not a 2 shot slaughter

That's a horrible opener. If we didn't know what was coming and things were set up as a mystery it could have been interesting. But we know everything and they're just talking a lot. You should have shown a portal opening and then say something like ten months later and show a huge battle. Basically, my reaction was, what's the point, the entire story is obvious now, I have no reason to watch any more episodes.

[PeZook]

Yeah, pretty much what I expected.

If it doesn't have explosions and a gazillion of ships flying around and shooting each other with the bare minimum of plot possible, it's not worth anything.

That kind of approach leads to stupid shit like the "Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs. Babylon 5 vs..." movies, that go on for half an hour. After you've seen one Spacebattles movie, you've pretty much seen them all.

[ray245]

Hey, the movies ARE fun and have excellent graphics...and when I mean neutral standpoint, well they are not war-based or trek-based fans, so they would be more interested in the actual tone and plot of the story than a wars fan or trekkie.

I like the fun factor of SB movies, come on, who don't like millions of ships and huge explosion?

And you know how much harder is it going to be to animate CHARACTERS instead of ships?

Lord Poe got a program that can aid the characters part of the story, which is not available last time, when they create such battle sequence.

And I think I agree with them...calling the movie 'Ultimate' is a bit much, and I think is one of the reason SB.com don't like the fanfilm that much.

HOWEVER, to them, the BC and LB both are biased towards one side, so they will ignore the fact of which universe got better ships, and focus on the film ITSELF.

And for some of their battles, well it's battles from their FANFICTION, so all the talking can be read in their fanfic.

And I think those movies are created quite some time ago, some of them are in the 90s, and that was much before the 200 Gigatons figure came in.

Unlike most Trek forums, they accept 200 gigatons figure as star wars canon, and viewed that wars can easily owned star trek.

Furthermore, most of us here are hardcore star wars fans, and THAT might cloud our judgment. Think I'm posting both fanfilms there and see what they say first.

I find that some of us here would treat any stories of star trek being curbstomed by star wars to be nice, no matter how badly they are written.

Fanfics are much easier to be accepted because you can easily create a suitable background to cover the federations have a chance, no matter how small it is. Stravo's fic cover that nicely, but that is after a VERY high number of pages and chapters written before the Feds have a slim chance.

That provides a space battles which people would ENJOY watching. NOBODY like a curbstorm battle, as it will lack depth and any nice stories to tell. There's no tension, nor connections make to both sides, and that makes something most movie watcher hate it.

SB films are based on the quality of the graphics because they KNOW there is no story. It's simply a battle clip, and simply that. The audience knows that. When you cut away the characters talking or acting parts of stargate battles, or nBSG battles, people will still love the battle sequence even if there's no characters.

That's the first reason why SB.com did not view your work as 'ultimate'. They already have a standard of the effects after seeing so many works, and by calling that 'ultimate' there just because there's characters involved, you are saying other people works is NOTHING compared to yours.

When Characters are involved, people WILL take a different look at the whole thing. You are not only to have the effects taken into account, but the story, tension, the facial expression of the characters, how do the characters react as well.

How are you going to tell them what the characters are doing is serious?

With story and characters involved, the film is suddenly not as simple or accessible to everyone. If that is a clip of battle sequence, people only look and applauds at your efforts in the Animations and model.

Sometime, a battle sequence is not as simple as being one. People don't want space battles for the sake of one. If you want to have a space battles, you must be able to tell them this. 'Look, I don't do a space battle just for the sake of doing so. I want to show you I can do it WELL. '

What else do you think why so many people like star wars effects over star trek effects? What else would so many GENERAL people prefer star wars over star trek?

When they are presented a choice of what MOVIE are they going to watch, it will be star wars because it's MORE fun to watch, and the effects are so much better, especially since it's a FILM and not a TV series.

You think the average viewer would care for things like firepower calculations in a vs film?

You are doing a film, and you are calling it 'ultimate'. A film is MORE than SW ships being better than ST ships. This isn't a battle clip, this is a film. Even one side has to lose something to make things 'believable'. People are not going watch a film just because star wars wins.

People want to enjoy a movie, and there's a good reason why some movies do well despite a certain portion of the fanbase hate it. Look at Lord of the rings, ROTK. Some LOTR book fans hate it because it did not follow the book well enough, yet? The general audience embraces it, making it the SECOND top-grossing movie worldwide.

Peter Jackson has taken liberties with the source, so that it works well to the general audience, and for it to work as a MOVIE, not a book.

And Spacebattles 'imparity' as you called it POE, are views of the general sci-fi fans.

None of us like to be criticized for our work, especially a hard work. Believe me, I have taken criticize over my fanfic in the past, and I accept it.

Why? I want to know where am I wrong, why did people find my stories not nice at all. We can be biased looking at our own views and works, and cloud our own judgement of how good our work was.

SB.com did not dislike your work because the film featured star wars winning. It's because you did not live up to other's expectations. We always criticize bad movies because it is not as good as we think it should be. We look at the directing skills, the effects, storyline and acting to judge a good or bad movie, but we also take in account of our PERSONAL taste.

When making a movie, a very good and successful one, we must live up the basic viewer's expectations and ensure their personal taste suits your movie.

Even the Lousiest movies have critics rated it to be nice. On Rottentomatoes.com, even things like Bloodrayne and Batman and robins have critics who think it's nice, but those are minorities, not the majority.

How are we to know if the views on SD.net are the majority and dismissed views that say your movie is bad? Just because they dislike your film, they are wrong to do so?

Poe, you are not making a movie for yourself, you are making it for others to view. They ARE your viewers, so you should at the least listen to what they think, instead of dismissing that. Or else, we would not be able to improve on our faults and weakness.

I agree that your efforts are impressive, certainly better than what I could have done. But it's nowhere near the 'ultimate'.

There's still plenty of room for improvements, in your goals to be better and better. Accept criticize and improve, accept comments and motivation, there's never a best for anything, but there's always ways to be better.

As a saying goes, 'Who are we to judge ourselves?'

[Mange]

That was fucking boring as hell.

Agreed. *Lets out a yawn*

[Lord Poe]

Hey, the movies ARE fun and have excellent graphics...and when I mean neutral standpoint, well they are not war-based or trek-based fans, so they would be more interested in the actual tone and plot of the story than a wars fan or trekkie.

Bullshit. The current crop of SB critics are clearly leaning toward "crybaby Trekkie." That can easily be seen from the responses I got.

I like the fun factor of SB movies, come on, who don't like millions of ships and huge explosion?

I think it's fucking stupid to make space look like a supermarket parking lot at Thanksgiving, myself.

And you know how much harder is it going to be to animate CHARACTERS instead of ships?

Yes, I do. Something your "impartial critics" at SB never took into account.

Lord Poe got a program that can aid the characters part of the story, which is not available last time,

Bullshit, yet again. The Sims could have been used easily. The program Poser or Milkshape could have also been used, if these master storytellers at SB even considered trying to tell an actual story.

And I think I agree with them...calling the movie 'Ultimate' is a bit much, and I think is one of the reason SB.com don't like the fanfilm that much.

Too fucking bad, I stand by the title fully. Not only does it refer to a call-back to my website, but "The Last Bastion" actually has a story, which is something the traffic-jam-in-space flicks do not. So yes, "The Last Bastion" IS the ultimate Star Wars vs Star Trek MOVIE. The SB movies are "Lookit what I an do with Adobe After Effects! Wheee!"

HOWEVER, to them, the BC and LB both are biased towards one side, so they will ignore the fact of which universe got better ships, and focus on the film ITSELF.

Dude quit trying to paint these motherfuckers as impartial saints. They've proven they are far from that.

And for some of their battles, well it's battles from their FANFICTION, so all the talking can be read in their fanfic.

Sorry, but when I watch a movie, I don't bring the novelization to read along and discover why A happens to B.

And I think those movies are created quite some time ago, some of them are in the 90s, and that was much before the 200 Gigatons figure came in.

The 200 gigaton fogure comes from the late 90's as well, despite what a bunch of fucking conspiracy theory morons say about the AOTC:ICS. This has been proven time and again, with links from the late 90's.

Unlike most Trek forums, they accept 200 gigatons figure as star wars canon, and viewed that wars can easily owned star trek.

You mean now, or "in the 90's?"

Furthermore, most of us here are hardcore star wars fans, and THAT might cloud our judgment. Think I'm posting both fanfilms there and see what they say first.

Been there, done that. Their opinion is about as impartial as Nazi Pop Idol in Israel.

Fanfics are much easier to be accepted because you can easily create a suitable background to cover the federations have a chance, no matter how small it is.

The Starfleet officers in "The Last Bastion" DO have a choice to survive. Just like you would against a shark in a small pond: leave.

That provides a space battles which people would ENJOY watching. NOBODY like a curbstorm battle,

Bullshit, yet again. Read the quotes from your impartial SB critics. "Duh, dere's too much tawkin' and not enuff blowin' up!" I'm not interested in playing nice so "everyone has a chance." I'm interested in showing what would actually happen if a Star Destroyer opened up on a Federation starship. SB films show a Star Destroyer getting blown up by a shot or two, and Federation ships surviving multiple salvoes from Star Destroyers with slow as shit turbolasers.

SB films are based on the quality of the graphics because they KNOW there is no story. It's simply a battle clip, and simply that. The audience knows that. When you cut away the characters talking or acting parts of stargate battles, or nBSG battles, people will still love the battle sequence even if there's no characters.

What the fuck did you just say in that rambling diatribe? That I should forget story? Yeah, that will be an "Ultimate" movie...

That's the first reason why SB.com did not view your work as 'ultimate'.

Because it had a story. Gotcha.

They already have a standard of the effects after seeing so many works, and by calling that 'ultimate' there just because there's characters involved,

Read: a story,

you are saying other people works is NOTHING compared to yours.

That's not what I'm saying, no. "Battle clips" are fine, but try to tell me that such a thing constitutes a movie.

When Characters are involved, people WILL take a different look at the whole thing. You are not only to have the effects taken into account, but the story, tension, the facial expression of the characters, how do the characters react as well.

Which most of your "impartial critics" at SB did not.

How are you going to tell them what the characters are doing is serious?

Quoted for...what the fuck?

With story and characters involved, the film is suddenly not as simple or accessible to everyone.

No, its not accessible to bunch of fucking morons that like to put a hundred ships on the screen and call it a movie.

Sometime, a battle sequence is not as simple as being one. People don't want space battles for the sake of one.

Jesus fucking Christ, you flip flop more than John Kerry.

What else do you think why so many people like star wars effects over star trek effects? What else would so many GENERAL people prefer star wars over star trek?

Because general people enjoy a good action packed sci fi movie, and aren't mouth-breathing morons rubbing themselves to Klingon warriors?


[Ok, I'm through doing a point by point of this moronic manifesto.]

[Darth Servo]

Hey, just so long as Captains Jorg and Kraft survive and have their rendezvous on Risa.

Have there been or will be any scenes where we can clearly see the USS Guardian's registry number?

And where the hell is part four. Its been over TWO WEEKS since part three was posted. Whats taking so long, damnit <j/k>

[Socar15]

Have there been or will be any scenes where we can clearly see the USS Guardian's registry number?

I'm pretty sure there were scenes where we could see it, but if not in the movie itself, then certainly here: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v685/ ... ardian.jpg

[Darth Servo]

Have there been or will be any scenes where we can clearly see the USS Guardian's registry number?

I'm pretty sure there were scenes where we could see it, but if not in the movie itself, then certainly here:
<snip link>

Yes, Wayne's shown that pic before. But that pic isn't exactly in the films which is the limit of what most people will be exposed to.

[ray245]

Firstly, I never understand why you need to spend so much time to do a point by point argument...anyway, even if you did, you did not quote 'some' of my points.

What I am telling you is this, we don't judge ourselves to be good or bad, we let others do so. Still, the people on SB.com are your VIEWERS, Poe, we can't be right all the time.

Look at Uwe Boll, to many, his movies sucks, but to him, he still thinks he can compare to Peter Jackson, Steven Spielberg etc. He doesn't accept his critics view, and his movies NEVER do well at box office.

If you don't think they are good enough to judge, fine with me. But try to listen to their views, even if they criticize you.

They are your viewers Poe, what's the point of putting the movies on the internet if you don't want to listen to what your viewers think, whether it's comments or criticism?

'Ultimate' because it has a story? Convince me if your story is strong Poe, I prefer stravo's works myself. Convince me that the story is good enough to be ultimate.

Movies still tell stories, if you want to show others a great movie, show everyone that your STORY is excellent.

I can't feel that the characters has emotions. I can't feel desperation, hope, and the struggle of any kind. Maybe you can create such a atmosphere in future parts like stravo did, I don't know.

What about camera movement, the angle of shot for the space battles? Did you have a story board before 'filming' them?

In a SB 'battle clip' as you said it, the Battlestars vs star destroyer one, what can we see? From the way the vipers fight, the way they fly, you can see something. You can see a struggle.

In a fight in A new hope, the opening. What do you see, Tantive IV firing back with all it got at the stardestroyer. You know it is one sided, but you still feel a sense of struggle, poe.

If you cut away all the talking parts in your movie, and only show the battle clips, do you think your film is better than SB battle clips?

Poe, listen. I'm not saying your movie sucks, I find it rather fun to watch. But I don't think it is the 'ultimate'. What makes you think in the future, there won't be a better SW vs ST fanfilm?

Please, Poe, learn to accept other people views that the movie may not be 'ultimate'. I'm not saying the film needed huge battles; give me an action packed movie worthy of the title ‘ultimate’

There's always room for improvements, and simple things like background music can always make a difference as well.

[Darth Servo]

'Ultimate' because it has a story? Convince me if your story is strong Poe, I prefer stravo's works myself. Convince me that the story is good enough to be ultimate.

Since its about the only fan-film that HAS a story, you have no point. ANY story is superior to what the kiddies as SB.com would call "ultimate" which is two walls of ships duking it out.

[Lord Poe]

Hey, just so long as Captains Jorg and Kraft survive and have their rendezvous on Risa.

The magic 8 ball says... This Is A Distinct Possibility.

Have there been or will be any scenes where we can clearly see the USS Guardian's registry number?

Damn, I should. It took me a good 3 months to learn how to do them. What sucks is, I'm limited to using an old version of Fraps, that only captures at 640x480, so a lot of detail is missed.

And where the hell is part four. Its been over TWO WEEKS since part three was posted. Whats taking so long, damnit <j/k>

Hehe! Honestly, my personal life is in the middle of MAJOR changes, so part 4 may be a while. I've set up one scene so far.

[Lord Poe]

minor nitpick: the scaling seemed a bit off on that shot. The Sovie too small/ISD too big.

Yeah, I had to cheat on that one. I used the Star Destroyer from Jedi Academy again, and had to be real close to it so you couldn't see all the asteroids flying around.

[Elfdart]

Any chance of Captain Cole returning as a Force Ghost?


The only things I would change (if doable) would be an edit to get rid of the pauses between lines so it sounds more natural, and to play the OT Star Trek fight music (when Kirk and Spock duel on Vulcan) every time Scooter appears on screen.

[Lord Poe]

Any chance of Captain Cole returning as a Force Ghost?

Actually, I was going to have a scene where Captain Cole was one of the survivors being helped onto the Heritage. But I couldn't figure out an explanation of how he got from the bridge to that porton of the saucer section of Compliance that survived!

The only things I would change (if doable) would be an edit to get rid of the pauses between lines so it sounds more natural, and to play the OT Star Trek fight music (when Kirk and Spock duel on Vulcan) every time Scooter appears on screen.

Oh man...I looked for that music everywhere online! I even have a cassette tape of TOS music, but that fight music wasn't on it.

[Darth Fanboy]

Actually, I was going to have a scene where Captain Cole was one of the survivors being helped onto the Heritage. But I couldn't figure out an explanation of how he got from the bridge to that porton of the saucer section of Compliance that survived!

Does it matter how? You could throw it in as a very big WTF, or better yet use technobabble. It would make the situation rather hilarious.

[Darth Servo]

Actually, I was going to have a scene where Captain Cole was one of the survivors being helped onto the Heritage. But I couldn't figure out an explanation of how he got from the bridge to that porton of the saucer section of Compliance that survived!

How is that any more ridiculous than Anderson being captain of a starship?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Well, if you remember their was mention of Janeway and her dripping cavernous pit... Oh and some mention of Doom 3. So, that's understandable, how Janeway got to be an Admiral is what vexes me, even though that's from actual ST canon...

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Well, if you remember their was mention of Janeway and her dripping cavernous pit... Oh and some mention of Doom 3. So, that's understandable, how Janeway got to be an Admiral is what vexes me, even though that's from actual ST canon...

Dripping cavernous pit? For some reason that conjures the image of the man-eating plant from ROTJ

[Aratech]

Sorry it took me so long to get around to this, Mr. Poe.

Absolutely loved the story. You've got a fairly good plot in the vid, better than most for sure. That, and the nice mix of 'action' and comedy was very good. I have a feeling that the Imperial captain is never going to be allowed to forget this... as well as making me wonder what the hell he had for his last meal.

Excellent use of the graphical capabilities of the game's engine (the shot of the Sovereign flying over the ISD's bridge was pure gold.) The voice acting was also pretty good... though I must say I'm still tempted to hurt you for making Scooter act like a certain pirate captain.

My one complaint is that the Imp captain, when he's walking off of the bridge the first time, seems a little... lopsided, for lack of a better term. The way his shoulders are just seems... well... off.

Aside from that, wonderful job. Keep up the good work, and I can't wait to see part four.

[Laird]

any update on this?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Wayne said he started work on Part 4 the other night, but said he didn't intend to make a teaser, however Jericho and I seemed to have changed his mind.

[Catman]

Jesus, at least I WANT to see plot.

And I'd like to think that fan films won't necessarily be farting around with flashy, sometimes understandably desirable stuff, just to show us a few minutes of fun crossover battles, although seeing the Lego Trek and Lego Trek vs. Lego Wars videos on Youtube is... interesting to me, seeing the animation.

[Lord Poe]

any update on this?

Yeah, I just finished filming the Imperial parts for part 4 last night. I've moved into a new 'puter, had to recover some files, bought a new microphone last night, etc.

Its slow going, but I AM still working on it! I just hit up "Captain Kraft" with a few additional lines. Andiana took a few basic lines about a running joke involving the holodeck and ran with it. It's hilarious!

And yes...ideas for the teaser are being considered!

[Darth Servo]

Captain Kraft, as in Kraft Mac and Cheese?

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

any update on this?

Yeah, I just finished filming the Imperial parts for part 4 last night. I've moved into a new 'puter, had to recover some files, bought a new microphone last night, etc.

Its slow going, but I AM still working on it! I just hit up "Captain Kraft" with a few additional lines. Andiana took a few basic lines about a running joke involving the holodeck and ran with it. It's hilarious!

And yes...ideas for the teaser are being considered!

Something blowing up? With Captain Idiot in the torture room with one of those droids?