WoW trials to UK Times readers

[Ghost Rider]

Oh, yeah, because the Humans either enslaving or systematically trying to genocide the entire Orc race is OK.

Humans, I give...because they have done some rather fucked up things.

And we'll just give the Gnomes a pass on that radioactive/toxic wasteland that used to be their city.

Which was the sole deed of one gnome because he was jealous and insane. Not to mention he had ties with the Dark Iron Dwarves. Hardly a good representation of the gnomes

And the Night Elves trying to raise up another World Tree without proper deity authorization with the attendant problems of arrogance and corruption.

Once again the work of a single, albeit high ranked Night Elf. Just instead of linked with a deeply corrupt organization, just a fuckwit with loads of power. Many Night Elves have expressed they wouldn't mind if Staghelm took a short walk off of a very large cliff.

Honestly if we're doing those points I could say both the Tauren and Draenei are evil bastards because of Archimonde and Grimtotem.

Archimonde for being one of the main architects of the Burning Legion.

Grimtotem for the pursant creation of the Forsaken's second plague.

Every faction has it's major assholes....just the Humans and Orcs have the most...mostly because of the focus of who the games have centered around.

The point isn't that one side or the other is committing this evil act or that - it would be more accurate to say everyone has dirty hands and has done wrong at some point. Which is a darn sight closer to reality than MOST us-vs-them fantasy conflicts.

Like I said - there's an argument to be made for the Dranei and Tauren joining up, as they are possibly the least guilty groups, and letting the others go to hell

Actually after playing as much as I have...literally the worst is the Forsaken. They have little to any redeemable value, and are pursant of a goal to obliterate everyone but themselves.

The Humans are like the Orcs a mix. A great deal of evil and good have come from both, and it is explicitly shown in who the Lich King is.

The Blood Elves are crack whores, who found their next fix...and only some have come to realize the real price.

The Trolls were the worst until smacked down, and then so far down the racial totem pole that if the Orcs didn't save them, the Murlocs would've destroyed them.

The Dwarves owe a very large debt to the humans almost as a mirror to the Trolls, because the Orcs and former kinsmen tried to obliterate them.

The Tauren and the Draenei are the most peaceful, but have their equal share of high level people with some truly monsterous plans.

The Night Elves, got woken up, shaken up and disturbed because of former arrogance and the Orc/Human wars. Literally they live peacefully with the hamburger boys and waited until the return of the Burning Legion.

The Gnomes are pretty much innocent of anything because they allied with the Dwarves and were drawn into said wars because of such. They like the Taurens help the humans because they were saved by them.

I think it would be funny as hell if Blizzard did a major realignment of forces, rearranging which race teams with which. Smash guilds all to hell, force people to think differently --- but the folks locked into one mind set would bitch. >sigh<

Other possibilities include a different troll tribe uniting with the Alliance - the Forest Trolls as a possibility. Not that they like Humans or anyone else, but they're being crushed between the BE's and the Forsaken. Then they'll have to add something to the Horde. Pity we couldn't get a three-way conflict going - maybe Dranei, Tauren, and Forest Troll against an Alliance of Humans, NE's, Dwarves, Gnomes and a Horde of Orcs, Darkspear Trolls, Forsaken, and BE's. Hmm.... we'd need another arce for the Dranei-Tauren, FT's....

Anyhow, I've got Horde on one server and Alliance characters on the other. They're all interesting, I have a blast, and I keep it a game.

The splitting of teams also runs into the problem of literally adding that much for the sake of lore would then drown what do they offer besides skin color differences. 99% of WoW play it to go "I wanna be a(insert race) (insert class).". Yeah, there are people who have studied the lore, but really Blizz has shown they don't give a fuck about Lore(one only has to look at the insanity of squeezing in the Blood Knights and how many fudgings of former lore to go "Ummm...yeah.").

[Broomstick]

The thing about Lore is that Blizzard, at base, is a for-profit company with 8,000,000 customers to keep happy. If the majority of customer base gave a damn they'd care a lot more about the lore, but we all know the average WoW player is into battle, not backstory.

Wonder if people care more about the Lore on the RP servers - dunno, because I've never played on one. But that's where you'd find folks heavily into the storyline.

[Broomstick]

Eh, it's more like "turning demons into batteries" or "eating demons" , as for the Naaru not everyone agrees with it - witness that blacksmith's reaction in the L20 pally quest when you get your polearm made.

Yeah, what's up with that - I don't have an L20 BE Pally, what's squicking out the blacksmith in that little scene? I see it fairly frequently, probably because so many people have rolled BE Pally's in the last couple months

[Kuja]

Eh, it's more like "turning demons into batteries" or "eating demons" , as for the Naaru not everyone agrees with it - witness that blacksmith's reaction in the L20 pally quest when you get your polearm made.

Yeah, what's up with that - I don't have an L20 BE Pally, what's squicking out the blacksmith in that little scene? I see it fairly frequently, probably because so many people have rolled BE Pally's in the last couple months

What's happening is that the blacksmith is making you a quest weapon - the Blood-tempered Ranseur. The reason the other blacksmith walks away is because of the materials you had to gather for it.

Blood of the Wrathful: demon's blood to accentuate the weapon's power

Corrupted Kor Gem: a crystal infused with demonic power.

Blood-forged iron: a cursed metal.

And though it's not included in the weapon itself, you also have to go find a dead Blood Knight's corpse and steal his Insignia to use for yourself.

If this isn't screaming 'fucked up' for a paladin quest......

[Ghost Rider]

The thing about Lore is that Blizzard, at base, is a for-profit company with 8,000,000 customers to keep happy. If the majority of customer base gave a damn they'd care a lot more about the lore, but we all know the average WoW player is into battle, not backstory.

Wonder if people care more about the Lore on the RP servers - dunno, because I've never played on one. But that's where you'd find folks heavily into the storyline.

On RP servers, you get more Role Playing...but there are people there that still rape lore as bad as Blizz with their super "I'm Arthas' third vampiric Night Elf cousin from a second marriage to Jaina Proudmoore."

And strangely, many of the MMO's have some vast lore, it's just that it gets buried in the quest for loot.

[GuppyShark]

It's hard to take the WoW lore seriously when even Blizzard doesn't. The Warcraft setting is too inconsistent to work.

I was a diehard RPer on the Internode Neverwinter Nights persistent world. There's no chance I'll ever be that devoted to Azeroth's 'lore'.

[Jaevric]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Draenei lead the Burning Legion to the Orcish homeworld in the first place, thus leading to the Orcs becoming corrupted?

"Hey guys, thanks for letting us live on your planet, we really appreciate it. Sorry we forgot to mention that greater demon with a track record for corrupting and enslaving mortal races that we were running from before we moved in."

Not exactly the actions of a good neighbor. Draenei definitely have some blood on their hands, same as everyone else.

I would have to say that the Forsaken and Blood Elves are outright evil--and I've had characters from both races and enjoyed every minute of it. Don't forget that Undercity quest where a member of the Royal Apothecary Society intentionally poisons a Tauren ally in order to test the toxic nature of some tainted water. Or the demonstration against the Magisters in Silvermoon that ends when the leaders of the demonstration get mind controlled.

[Broomstick]

Oh, yeah, because the Humans either enslaving or systematically trying to genocide the entire Orc race is OK.

Humans, I give...because they have done some rather fucked up things.

Yes. Regrettably, that seems to be a trait of the species in any reality....

And we'll just give the Gnomes a pass on that radioactive/toxic wasteland that used to be their city.

Which was the sole deed of one gnome because he was jealous and insane. Not to mention he had ties with the Dark Iron Dwarves. Hardly a good representation of the gnomes

Well, yeah, like the Grimtotem are representative of the Tauren - which they aren't, being a minority, and the "home tribe" of them attack Tauren players on sight.

Just goes to my point that it isn't "everyone is good guys" so much as "everyone is arguably bad guys to one degree or another".

And the Night Elves trying to raise up another World Tree without proper deity authorization with the attendant problems of arrogance and corruption.

Once again the work of a single, albeit high ranked Night Elf. Just instead of linked with a deeply corrupt organization, just a fuckwit with loads of power. Many Night Elves have expressed they wouldn't mind if Staghelm took a short walk off of a very large cliff.

Yes, one power-mad derranged individual getting the whole race in trouble by being a greedy sell-out. Seems to be a lot of that in Azeroth and related places.

Actually after playing as much as I have...literally the worst is the Forsaken. They have little to any redeemable value, and are pursant of a goal to obliterate everyone but themselves.

Oh, yes - probably the most truly evil of the mix. Of course they ARE sick. Literally. Not that you can pardon them for that while they try to obliterate you.

When I'm in an evil mood, though, I like to bring out my Forsaken Warlock. Now THAT's a toxic mix. She's a tailor, too - ever consider how being a tailor is evil in WoW? You have to kill sentient beings in order to pursue profession. How.... icky.

[Ghost Rider]

Humans, I give...because they have done some rather fucked up things.

Yes. Regrettably, that seems to be a trait of the species in any reality....

Also, we are usually the most gullible fucks as well.

Think how many fantasy stories are humans fucking up things over, the dumbest shit....all the while the elder races are going "WTF?!"

Well, yeah, like the Grimtotem are representative of the Tauren - which they aren't, being a minority, and the "home tribe" of them attack Tauren players on sight.

Just goes to my point that it isn't "everyone is good guys" so much as "everyone is arguably bad guys to one degree or another".

Which is a point I agree and like about WoW. It does have it's people do some rather stupid, asinine, and even greedy shit to get ahead of others. And some of it is cloaked in "For the Greater Good."

Yes, one power-mad derranged individual getting the whole race in trouble by being a greedy sell-out. Seems to be a lot of that in Azeroth and related places.

Hell, WoW lore is practically based upon it. One fuckwit of a Titan decides to fuck the grand mission and try to burn the universe to the ground.

Oh, yes - probably the most truly evil of the mix. Of course they ARE sick. Literally. Not that you can pardon them for that while they try to obliterate you.

When I'm in an evil mood, though, I like to bring out my Forsaken Warlock. Now THAT's a toxic mix. She's a tailor, too - ever consider how being a tailor is evil in WoW? You have to kill sentient beings in order to pursue profession. How.... icky.

Warlocks I still love, because regardless of race, 90% of their missions are literally "You can't just be evil, you have to be EVIL."

[Archon]

I have already been one of those idiots who got to addicted to a MMORPG, it was a private Ultima Online server. Never again. I won't touch one of those bastards with a 10 foot pole.

[Kuja]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Draenei lead the Burning Legion to the Orcish homeworld in the first place, thus leading to the Orcs becoming corrupted?

"Hey guys, thanks for letting us live on your planet, we really appreciate it. Sorry we forgot to mention that greater demon with a track record for corrupting and enslaving mortal races that we were running from before we moved in."

Not exactly the actions of a good neighbor. Draenei definitely have some blood on their hands, same as everyone else.

The draenei thought they'd finalyl ditched Kil'jaedan from following their trail and decided to hunker down and hide rather than risk hopping to another planet, which might have been noticed.