Mirror Universe Tholian Web

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2007-03-30 08:53pm

Would the version of the Tholian Web seen in 'In a Mirror, Darkly' be able to block Star Wars weaponry, at least as far as Turbolasers go, or would they simply destroy the web and/or pass straight through like the Tholians's own weapons did?

I'm thinking that the rift the Tholians opened lured an SW mid-sized ship (at least smaller than an ISD) through, passage through the rift having disrupted the ships systems just long enough for the Tholians to activate the web before they can be fired upon (seeing as how otherwise they'd be destroyed even more easily than when the Defiant opened fire)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO65seAiGuU

I searched for Tholian Web threads, but I only found pre-IAMD ones

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-03-31 03:50am

Would the version of the Tholian Web seen in 'In a Mirror, Darkly' be able to block Star Wars weaponry

You may not have noticed, but that web had really huge holes in it that might just be big enough to fit a turbolaser bolt through. That's how the Tholian weapons got in and the slow, unshielded escape pods got out.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-03-31 05:35am

Watching that video, it seems that on creation and when hit by the human torpedos, a finer level of the web is visible, with much smaller diamonds. This doesn't happen when the Tholians fire in. I didn't see any escape pods actually get out, it seemed like they all either blew up on the web or got shot. Why did at least two escape pod pilots drive directly into the deadly strands? Tholian shots that missed them passed out of the web easily.

If the holes in the web were unaffected, couldn't they just fire a torpedo out of the web so it curves around to hit one of the Tholian ships? The Tholians would have to be idiots - any race with missiles powerful enough to kill one of their ships could escape easily.

Strangely, when the Enterprise's torpedoes try to get through, the animation is screwed - there's no ship firing them, and the web reacts before they impact.

I don't think there's enough information to judge how well a Tholian web would work on a SW ship. Since it would be extremely unusual for any ST defensive technology (not from a mysterious/godlike faction) to be strong enough to beat a SW warship, I'm going to guess the SW ship would win.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-03-31 05:40am

I didn't see any escape pods actually get out, it seemed like they all either blew up on the web or got shot.

You can see a handful sneak through in the last shot of the pods; also, in the next episode there are Enterprise survivors aboard the Defiant.

Watching that video, it seems that on creation and when hit by the human torpedos, a finer level of the web is visible, with much smaller diamonds.

Since other solid objects pass through, my guess is that the web is designed to trigger explosive projectiles rather than stop them.

Strangely, when the Enterprise's torpedoes try to get through, the animation is screwed - there's no ship firing them

MU Forrest was smart enough to dig up the stolen Suliban cloaking device. It's cloaked.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-03-31 05:42am

Ghetto edit:

Since other solid objects pass through, my guess is that the web is designed to trigger explosive projectiles rather than stop them.

The bigger strands can destroy escape pods, the smaller ones may allow solid matter through while still providing enough resistance to torpedoes to set off their detonators. Or something.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-03-31 07:01am

Bounty wrote:
Watching that video, it seems that on creation and when hit by the human torpedos, a finer level of the web is visible, with much smaller diamonds.
Since other solid objects pass through, my guess is that the web is designed to trigger explosive projectiles rather than stop them.

[later]

The bigger strands can destroy escape pods, the smaller ones may allow solid matter through while still providing enough resistance to torpedoes to set off their detonators. Or something.

How can you trigger explosives without harming enemies in escape pods? It doesn't make any sense. Also, a KE penetrator projectile or missile would be unaffected. The suicidal escape pod pilots are still a mystery - "Hey, if people were watching, it'd look hella cool if we crashed into one of these deadly energy beams, let's go!"

I went through it more closely and I just noticed a few things:

- When the Tholians finish the web, they don't stay at the corners protected by the web strands - they just go and sit around outside.

- When the Enterprise fires on a Tholian ship, it all happens off-screen, and all we get is 'no damage'. What? They fired through the web all right, their weapons were just piss weak. SW ship wins.

- So the obvious question is: why the hell didn't they fire torpedoes at the Tholian ships? Why shoot the goddamn web? What is wrong with these people?

My conclusion: The Tholian web must be full of holes. The brain of everyone in this scene is, incidentally, also full of holes. Given similar symptoms, perhaps they were infected by the plot.

Strangely, when the Enterprise's torpedoes try to get through, the animation is screwed - there's no ship firing them
MU Forrest was smart enough to dig up the stolen Suliban cloaking device. It's cloaked.

Crap, I should've noticed the cloaking part. Still, it's weird that every other time a cloaking device is damaged, it deactivates due to the plot. This time, the plot requires that they can't direct power to their engines, so the broken cloaking device somehow can't be turned off.

"The cloak's not responding, sir!" How about you turn off its power supply, idiot?

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-03-31 07:27am

What? They fired through the web all right, their weapons were just piss weak. SW ship wins.

"No damage to the web", perhaps? IE, their disruptors were stopped, too?
As for them being piss-weak, well, duh - if you'd watched the rest of the clip, you would've seen that a TOS Constitution can blow up the web spinners just fine. No-one said the Tholians are actually powerful - on the contrary, they're portrayed as third-raters throughout the episode. Earlier, one of their ships went down against an ENT-era vessel, for crap's sake.

"The cloak's not responding, sir!" How about you turn off its power supply, idiot?

Yeah, that bit's just stupid. Then again, the MU doesn't really care much about engineering it seems - their way of dealing with leaking reactors is to have their crew wear badges that light up when the radiation gets dangerous...except they're not allowed to leave the engine room when that happens. Hence Tucker's molten face.

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2007-03-31 08:40am

Bounty wrote:
What? They fired through the web all right, their weapons were just piss weak. SW ship wins.
"No damage to the web", perhaps? IE, their disruptors were stopped, too?

"Target the nearest ship. Fire!"
*fires*
"No damage."

I don't see how you can interpret that to as referring to the web.

As for them being piss-weak, well, duh - if you'd watched the rest of the clip, you would've seen that a TOS Constitution can blow up the web spinners just fine. No-one said the Tholians are actually powerful - on the contrary, they're portrayed as third-raters throughout the episode. Earlier, one of their ships went down against an ENT-era vessel, for crap's sake.

I did watch the rest of the clip. 'Piss-weak' as in, you have to be pretty goddamn weak to cause less than 0.5% damage against something that's blown up easily later.

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2007-03-31 10:40am

I noticed that when the Enterprise blew up that the web disappeared, so I'm thinking that either the explosion itself did that (overcoming the web by supplying it with more energy than it can handle) or the Tholians deactivated it.

The web seemed to redirect the energy of the Enterprises' torpedoes in such a way that it interfered with the cloaking device (when they said it wasn't responding, I was thinking 'disengage it manually', or 'just rip the fucking thing out')

There's another clip saying about the escape pods, but that begins where Tucker powers up the ship, missing most of the web stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm63K_tkkFc

I've no idea that Forrest could hope to accomplish by sacrificing himself, I didn't see the Enterprise actually do anything other than just sit there.

ShadowSonic · Post by **ShadowSonic** » 2007-04-05 09:49pm

I think he was trying to delay the reactor explosion somehow, though some explanation of what he was doing would have been nice.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-04-05 10:18pm

Why couldn't a heavily shielded or heavily armoured ship simply bull-rush its way through the web? How much damage can the web possibly pour into any given target, given that it appears to have no power source other than the ship which generated it?

EnterpriseSovereign · Post by **EnterpriseSovereign** » 2007-04-06 08:39am

I think that must be part of the reason they couldn't divert power from the cloak to the engines, the writers probably didn't want to have to test that idea of the Enterprise trying to ram the web.