CNN Commentary: What would Jesus really do?

[Darth Wong]

Hell is a creation of the Church in the many long centuries after the gospels were written.

Since Jesus himself talks in the gospels of how sinners will be tortured in the Kingdom of God, I think it's a moot point whether they actually speak specifically of a place called Hell. Ultimately, at some point, any believer in a "kinder and gentler" God has to admit the possibility of erroneous information in the Bible, including the New Testament.

[Patrick Degan]

Ultimately, at some point, any believer in a "kinder and gentler" God has to admit the possibility of erroneous information in the Bible, including the New Testament.

I think any believer in a "kinder, gentler" god has to admit at some point they're simply making him up since the god in the Bible really is a rather nasty person to begin with.

[Wicked Pilot]

At least in the Old Testimate you knew your place. ie you're just a little bug God will crush just to settle a stupid bet with Satan. In the New Testiment it gets a little bit more confusing, God loves you, you're suppost to love God, Jesus is some kind of middle man, but God will still crush you puny bug, so don't piss him off, but if you do ask for forgiveness, because he doesn't want to crush you like a bug, even though you are and he will, even if you don't piss him off, beucase of some sin thing we by default piss him off, so you better ask for forgiveness even when you aren't pissing him off, though he may still crush you, but with love. What are we talking about here again?

[wolveraptor]

Wait, is he gay?

As a layman studying to receive a master's in Christian communications, and the husband of an ordained minister

I am a man,­ an African-American man

Sheesh, you'd think he's have spent more time on the issue of gay rights.

Don't some denominations allow female ministers...?

Did you miss the part where he said he was an African-American man? You know, the part I quoted right in my fucking post?

[Howedar]

Ultimately, at some point, any believer in a "kinder and gentler" God has to admit the possibility of erroneous information in the Bible, including the New Testament.

I think any believer in a "kinder, gentler" god has to admit at some point they're simply making him up since the god in the Bible really is a rather nasty person to begin with.

I don't know, Jesus usually seemed to be a pretty cool dude. If you say that Jesus == God, then a kind and gentle God isn't as made up anymore.

That doesn't take into account the Old Testament, of course.

[Darth Wong]

Ultimately, at some point, any believer in a "kinder and gentler" God has to admit the possibility of erroneous information in the Bible, including the New Testament.

I think any believer in a "kinder, gentler" god has to admit at some point they're simply making him up since the god in the Bible really is a rather nasty person to begin with.

I don't know, Jesus usually seemed to be a pretty cool dude. If you say that Jesus == God, then a kind and gentle God isn't as made up anymore.

That doesn't take into account the Old Testament, of course.

You might want to check out Mark 9. That's a pretty good example of how Jesus does mention Hell, and how he says that an unbeliever would be better off tying a millstone around his neck and plunging to the bottom of the sea forever than to face God's wrath.

He's not really such a nice guy if you actually read the gospels without subconsciously skipping over the unpleasant stuff.

[Patrick Degan]

Ultimately, at some point, any believer in a "kinder and gentler" God has to admit the possibility of erroneous information in the Bible, including the New Testament.

I think any believer in a "kinder, gentler" god has to admit at some point they're simply making him up since the god in the Bible really is a rather nasty person to begin with.

I don't know, Jesus usually seemed to be a pretty cool dude. If you say that Jesus == God, then a kind and gentle God isn't as made up anymore.

Really? Sonny-Jeebus is still having to get himself nailed to a tree to placate Big Daddy and get him to lift a curse he put on mankind in the first place because he didn't really bother to explain to Adam & Eve the pitfalls of the whole Tree-of-Life deal or why they shouldn't be listenting to any talking snake that happens to slither into Eden on a given day, and for which he made no allowance for ignorance, inexperience, lack of understanding from these two people he plopped into his creation who essentially were only a few days old.

[AniThyng]

Did you miss the part where he said he was an African-American man? You know, the part I quoted right in my fucking post?

So, perhaps, he is the HUSBAND of a FEMALE minister?

[Rye]

Because he didn't. Hell is a creation of the Church in the many long centuries after the gospels were written.

Any proof of that? Bit difficult to gnash and wail in the pit according to the Bible if the Bible doesn't mention it.

I don't know, Jesus usually seemed to be a pretty cool dude. If you say that Jesus == God, then a kind and gentle God isn't as made up anymore.

Did you miss the parts where Jesus says towns that reject his message will be destroyed worse than Sodom and Gomorrah? Or where he taught parables in which those that didn't submit to the king's rule should be executed? Given Epicurus had come up with an ethical, secular hedonism 3 or 400 years before Jesus even existed and managed not to threat his detractors with eternal punishment and destruction, I have difficulty accepting Jesus was "a pretty cool dude". He was just some stinky first century apocalyptic nutjob with a few ideas that were a bit progressive considering the racism and assholery of the audience, but as a philosopher and a human being, he wasn't anything great.

[Fixed quote tags, if someone could delete my fucked up post, that'd be awesome.]

[Ritterin Sophia]

I think any believer in a "kinder, gentler" god has to admit at some point they're simply making him up since the god in the Bible really is a rather nasty person to begin with.

I don't know, Jesus usually seemed to be a pretty cool dude. If you say that Jesus == God, then a kind and gentle God isn't as made up anymore.

Really? Sonny-Jeebus is still having to get himself nailed to a tree to placate Big Daddy and get him to lift a curse he put on mankind in the first place because he didn't really bother to explain to Adam & Eve the pitfalls of the whole Tree-of-Life deal or why they shouldn't be listenting to any talking snake that happens to slither into Eden on a given day, and for which he made no allowance for ignorance, inexperience, lack of understanding from these two people he plopped into his creation who essentially were only a few days old.

Let's not forget Genesis, where he could have easily told Satan shut the fuck up but didn't in which case he's evil, couldn't in which case he's impotent, or didn't know in which case he's not omniscient...

[CmdrWilkens]

Because he didn't. Hell is a creation of the Church in the many long centuries after the gospels were written.

Any proof of that? Bit difficult to gnash and wail in the pit according to the Bible if the Bible doesn't mention it.

Without going too deep into it Jesus repeatedly speaks of those left to gnash and wail an is often as not speaking of the classic Jewish idea that the worst thing that can happen is to be left in the ground, in the dirt of the earth while others ascend to God's presence. Literally the worst punihsment is to be kept far from God. There is not hell in this tradition rather those who are left would be in pain solely y not being near God...which in turn causes them to gnash and wail. Hell as most people think of it today is a place where eternal torture is carried out upon the wicked yet Jesus speaks of the wicked being left behin which, while hardly a pleasent thought doesn't involve an eternity of pain aside from the spiritual type.

[Rye]

Because he didn't. Hell is a creation of the Church in the many long centuries after the gospels were written.

Any proof of that? Bit difficult to gnash and wail in the pit according to the Bible if the Bible doesn't mention it.

Without going too deep into it Jesus repeatedly speaks of those left to gnash and wail an is often as not speaking of the classic Jewish idea that the worst thing that can happen is to be left in the ground, in the dirt of the earth while others ascend to God's presence. Literally the worst punihsment is to be kept far from God. There is not hell in this tradition rather those who are left would be in pain solely y not being near God...which in turn causes them to gnash and wail. Hell as most people think of it today is a place where eternal torture is carried out upon the wicked yet Jesus speaks of the wicked being left behin which, while hardly a pleasent thought doesn't involve an eternity of pain aside from the spiritual type.

You get this notion from the gospels?

Matt 3.11: "I baptise you with water for repentance, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and will gather his wheat into the granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."

25.41: Then he will say to those at his left hand, "You that are accursed depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels... "46 "...And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Luke 3.9 has similar imagery, as does revelation in general. It would seem odd to blame the firey punishment imagery on the church. Luke 16 has the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, in which the rich man is aware and in agony and torment in flames.

[Howedar]

Golly, I swear I said "usually", which would pretty much imply "not always".

[Rye]

Wow, lamest response ever. Do I even have to go to the trouble of making a Hitler analogy here?

How many times does one person have to say "everyone who rejects my holy message will get raped to death by demon dogs" in order to not be a gentle, loving god? Lol.

[Darth Wong]

Without going too deep into it Jesus repeatedly speaks of those left to gnash and wail an is often as not speaking of the classic Jewish idea that the worst thing that can happen is to be left in the ground, in the dirt of the earth while others ascend to God's presence. Literally the worst punihsment is to be kept far from God. There is not hell in this tradition rather those who are left would be in pain solely y not being near God...which in turn causes them to gnash and wail. Hell as most people think of it today is a place where eternal torture is carried out upon the wicked yet Jesus speaks of the wicked being left behin which, while hardly a pleasent thought doesn't involve an eternity of pain aside from the spiritual type.

So how do you explain the passages where he speaks of actual suffering then?

[Darth Servo]

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

And there was a certain abeggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

[wolveraptor]

So, perhaps, he is the HUSBAND of a FEMALE minister?

Shut up.

[TithonusSyndrome]

I never understood why Jesus enjoys this warm reputation and spawned the WWJD meme in the first place. Wasn't this the same guy who killed a fig tree with his Almighty Hand just because it didn't have fruit when he wanted some, and told everyone that they couldn't follow him unless they hated their whole family?

Really, I think most Americans are perfectly Jesus-like as things are.

[Invictus ChiKen]

Loved the Article Lady T!

It's good to see the other Christians starting to move towards Works of Mercy for the less fortunate.

I'm sure Christ is proud to see this going on among his followers.