Exploiting Biblical Literalism
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Exploiting Biblical Literalism
As you all are undoubtedly aware, taking the Bible literally (despite its contradictions) has hilarious implications that do not bode well for God or his followers. Weak points in an allegedly "perfect" God, the creator of the universe being ignorant of how it works, loopholes in the salvation scheme, etc. This thread is for these things. Make sure to cite your sources so we know you're not just making shit up like the ancient Hebrews.
Tower of Babel (Genesis, Chapter 11): This is my favorite Bible story. It's right up there with the tale of Icarus and his artificial wings. Of course, I interpret both the opposite of how they were intended. A united humanity decides reach Heaven on their own. Since they believe it to be up in the sky, they move to build a really tall tower. God sabotages the project by making everyone speak a different language. Humanity abandons the tower, and splits up into distinct tribes according to their new languages. Later, the incomplete tower is destroyed (the actual destruction is apocryphal).
God did not just do this because he was angry at our "hubris". He says that a united humanity can accomplish anything. Even if Heaven isn't up in the sky and a really tall tower won't work, we'll find another way. This is why he didn't just sit back and let us fail. If it was supposed to be a lesson against human hubris, making it impossible would get the lesson across much more clearly. But no, God confirms for the second time in Genesis that he is afraid of humanity's potential. We're just as smart (Tree of Knowledge), so if we had his immortality (Tree of Life), we would be true equals. This is why humanity was banished from Eden.
Who would have thought that such inspiring humanistic fables would be found in the Bible?
Tower of Babel (Genesis, Chapter 11): This is my favorite Bible story. It's right up there with the tale of Icarus and his artificial wings. Of course, I interpret both the opposite of how they were intended. A united humanity decides reach Heaven on their own. Since they believe it to be up in the sky, they move to build a really tall tower. God sabotages the project by making everyone speak a different language. Humanity abandons the tower, and splits up into distinct tribes according to their new languages. Later, the incomplete tower is destroyed (the actual destruction is apocryphal).
God did not just do this because he was angry at our "hubris". He says that a united humanity can accomplish anything. Even if Heaven isn't up in the sky and a really tall tower won't work, we'll find another way. This is why he didn't just sit back and let us fail. If it was supposed to be a lesson against human hubris, making it impossible would get the lesson across much more clearly. But no, God confirms for the second time in Genesis that he is afraid of humanity's potential. We're just as smart (Tree of Knowledge), so if we had his immortality (Tree of Life), we would be true equals. This is why humanity was banished from Eden.
Who would have thought that such inspiring humanistic fables would be found in the Bible?
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My own favorite bit showing God is not omnipotent. Because iron chariots kicked his ass.
Judges 1:19 wrote:1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Hnnnnng.
Where does God get his ass whooped in that at all? Judah couldn't drive out some guys with superior technology, therefore God was whooped?
My preference for biblical inerrancy are all the parts where God claims he judged other gods, weakened them, etc, revealing a polytheistic view of things.
Where does God get his ass whooped in that at all? Judah couldn't drive out some guys with superior technology, therefore God was whooped?
My preference for biblical inerrancy are all the parts where God claims he judged other gods, weakened them, etc, revealing a polytheistic view of things.
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It did specifically say that the Lord was with Judah. . . .which can be interpreted to mean any number of things. Even literally that the Lord was right next to Judah on the battlefield.Rye wrote:Hnnnnng.
Where does God get his ass whooped in that at all? Judah couldn't drive out some guys with superior technology, therefore God was whooped?
"It's you Americans. There's something about nipples you hate. If this were Germany, we'd be romping around naked on the stage here."
Yeah, but it doesn't say he was whooped any more than it says he was "with Judah" in the sense he was hosting a nude barbecue and was passing Judah the occasional sausage and baked potato.
A better literalist interpretation is that having God with you is no substitute for having bigger guns than the guy you're going for.
A better literalist interpretation is that having God with you is no substitute for having bigger guns than the guy you're going for.
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I think where God openly admits that there are other gods is amusing to spring on people.
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Every Passover, I have to keep from snickering at those parts...it comes up quite a bit, with God "judging the gods of the Egyptians" and such.SirNitram wrote:I think where God openly admits that there are other gods is amusing to spring on people.
My dad never could asnwer my questions about that when I was a kid...
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The theme throughout the Bible is that if God is with you, you'll be successful and safe. So, it is quite interesting when Judah failed despite the fact that it says specifically that God is with Judah.Rye wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't say he was whooped any more than it says he was "with Judah" in the sense he was hosting a nude barbecue and was passing Judah the occasional sausage and baked potato.
It goes on and on...That night the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am the God of your father Abraham. Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bless you and will increase the number of your descendants for the sake of my servant Abraham. - Genesis 26:24
But since the LORD was with him, Joseph got on very well and was assigned to the household of his Egyptian master. When his master saw that the LORD was with him and brought him success in whatever he did... - Genesis 39:2-3
The keeper of the prison looked not to any thing that was under his hand; because the LORD was with him, and that which he did, the LORD made it to prosper. - Genesis 39:23
The LORD was with Samuel as he grew up, and he let none of Samuel's words fall to the ground. - 1 Samuel 3:19
Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with David but had left Saul. - 1 Samuel 18:12
In everything he did he had great success, because the LORD was with him. - 1 Samuel 18:14
And he became more and more powerful, because the LORD God Almighty was with him. - 2 Samuel 5:10
And the LORD was with him; he was successful in whatever he undertook. - 2 Kings 18:7
Because the patriarchs were jealous of Joseph, they sold him as a slave into Egypt. But God was with him and rescued him from all his troubles. - Acts 7:9-10
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Re: Exploiting Biblical Literalism
Its even better when you consider all the other passages where God condemns diversity, wants humanity to be all united...in worship of him of course but still. God creates all the different languages, spreads mankind all over the world and then punishes them for not being Israelites.Darth Raptor wrote:Tower of Babel (Genesis, Chapter 11): This is my favorite Bible story. It's right up there with the tale of Icarus and his artificial wings. Of course, I interpret both the opposite of how they were intended. A united humanity decides reach Heaven on their own. Since they believe it to be up in the sky, they move to build a really tall tower. God sabotages the project by making everyone speak a different language. Humanity abandons the tower, and splits up into distinct tribes according to their new languages. Later, the incomplete tower is destroyed (the actual destruction is apocryphal).
God did not just do this because he was angry at our "hubris". He says that a united humanity can accomplish anything. Even if Heaven isn't up in the sky and a really tall tower won't work, we'll find another way. This is why he didn't just sit back and let us fail. If it was supposed to be a lesson against human hubris, making it impossible would get the lesson across much more clearly. But no, God confirms for the second time in Genesis that he is afraid of humanity's potential. We're just as smart (Tree of Knowledge), so if we had his immortality (Tree of Life), we would be true equals. This is why humanity was banished from Eden.
Who would have thought that such inspiring humanistic fables would be found in the Bible?
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When God was with Samson, he supposedly slew a thousand men with nothing but the jawbone of a donkey as his weapon. You'd think that God being "with" an army would allow them to take down iron chariots with little difficulty, but I guess not.
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Well, the quote also said:Rye wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't say he was whooped any more than it says he was "with Judah" in the sense he was hosting a nude barbecue and was passing Judah the occasional sausage and baked potato.
He wasn't just cheerleading them, he himself was taking an active role in driving people away.1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
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No, since the focus of that sentence is Judah, not God.Shroom Man 777 wrote:Well, the quote also said:Rye wrote:Yeah, but it doesn't say he was whooped any more than it says he was "with Judah" in the sense he was hosting a nude barbecue and was passing Judah the occasional sausage and baked potato.
He wasn't just cheerleading them, he himself was taking an active role in driving people away.1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.
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Actually it could be interpreted either way. However, the more important thing concerns the iron chariots: either God couldn't drive them out or Judah couldn't drive them out even though he had God on his side. I pity God if he ever comes up against a division of modern MBTs .
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Yoo too? I notice that in orthodox families, where it's common to analyse every second line of the Hagada, they magically skip over this.Molyneux wrote:Every Passover, I have to keep from snickering at those parts...it comes up quite a bit, with God "judging the gods of the Egyptians" and such.SirNitram wrote:I think where God openly admits that there are other gods is amusing to spring on people.
My dad never could asnwer my questions about that when I was a kid...
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Since the whole bit in Judges 1 is about Judah and his men doing various military actions, why would this bit be any different?Teleros wrote:Actually it could be interpreted either way.
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Fair point - that changes things just a bit .
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The point still stands, even though "The LORD was with Judah", he failed with his objective. That doesn't speak very well for God's abilities.Rye wrote:Since the whole bit in Judges 1 is about Judah and his men doing various military actions, why would this bit be any different?Teleros wrote:Actually it could be interpreted either way.
I know, I already said that in my second response.
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Mind you, I've also heard that there's been attempt to poo-poo this away, like on this apologist website, but I don't take them very seriously.First Book Of Kings, 7:23-26 wrote:'And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.'?
I personally prefer when Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 that "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of Moses or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." Kind of throws a monkey wrench into the mosiac law defense.
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I think Christians are incapable of comprehending how ridiculous their entire belief system looks to someone who wasn't indoctrinated in it from childhood.
"YOU HUMANS ARE SCUM!!! I HATE YOU ALL! I KILLED ALMOST ALL HUMANS BEFORE, AND I'LL DO IT AGAIN!!! YOU ARE WORTHLESS, IRREDEEMABLE, SINFUL, ABOMINABLE LITTLE CREATURES!!"
"Ummm ... God?"
"YES? WHAT NOW?"
"We killed your son."
"OH. ALL RIGHT THEN, YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK! PARTY GIFTS FOR EVERYONE!!!"
"YOU HUMANS ARE SCUM!!! I HATE YOU ALL! I KILLED ALMOST ALL HUMANS BEFORE, AND I'LL DO IT AGAIN!!! YOU ARE WORTHLESS, IRREDEEMABLE, SINFUL, ABOMINABLE LITTLE CREATURES!!"
"Ummm ... God?"
"YES? WHAT NOW?"
"We killed your son."
"OH. ALL RIGHT THEN, YOU'RE OFF THE HOOK! PARTY GIFTS FOR EVERYONE!!!"
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html