Star Wars>Star Trek

[Batman]

Star Wars tech dosen't increase because they've hit the pinnacle of possible technology. Reasonably, Star Trek will hit that too, but that won't stop the GE winning from numbers if not superior firepower.

You know the firepower and numbers Trek will have once they reach their technological peak? DO share.

[Surlethe]

Goodbye, I was hoping to have a good discussion on topics, but I get treated like a bag of dirt. Oh I could not help but notice that fresh posts are far between, and that it seems that the same people are talking in each one of them. Sad. I used to be in a clan of about 100 people for a computer game, and those people not only were a heck of a lot nicer, they posted a lot more. You all can have your re-re-re-re-re-hashed arguments and your rudeness, I am outa here. I was going to take time and research thuroughly to counteract that guy that runs creation-theories, but I wont bother, its just not worth the effort and my time. Feel free to email me, but chances are I will block your email, and delete your email, feel free to respond here, but it will be just to other cronies.

Good-bye, coward.

[Darth Wong]

Goodbye, I was hoping to have a good discussion on topics, but I get treated like a bag of dirt. Oh I could not help but notice that fresh posts are far between, and that it seems that the same people are talking in each one of them. Sad. I used to be in a clan of about 100 people for a computer game, and those people not only were a heck of a lot nicer, they posted a lot more.

That's because this argument died a long time ago, fucktard. Believe it or not, it is sometimes possible for one side to simply defeat the other side so convincingly that no educated person can take the other side any more. That happened with all scientifically knowledgeable people and the SWvST debate a long time ago, just as it happened with all scientifically knowledgeable people and creationism a long time ago.

You all can have your re-re-re-re-re-hashed arguments and your rudeness, I am outa here. I was going to take time and research thuroughly to counteract that guy that runs creation-theories, but I wont bother, its just not worth the effort and my time. Feel free to email me, but chances are I will block your email, and delete your email, feel free to respond here, but it will be just to other cronies.

I can smell your cowardice from all the way over here.

[Darth Fanboy]

Darth Fanboy's Pun of the Weak:

Unlike fine dining, there is no place for a thirteen year old whine in reasonable debate.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Goodbye, I was hoping to have a good discussion on topics, but I get treated like a bag of dirt. Oh I could not help but notice that fresh posts are far between, and that it seems that the same people are talking in each one of them. Sad. I used to be in a clan of about 100 people for a computer game, and those people not only were a heck of a lot nicer, they posted a lot more. You all can have your re-re-re-re-re-hashed arguments and your rudeness, I am outa here. I was going to take time and research thuroughly to counteract that guy that runs creation-theories, but I wont bother, its just not worth the effort and my time. Feel free to email me, but chances are I will block your email, and delete your email, feel free to respond here, but it will be just to other cronies.

For the asstard:

I was torn between this and a few others

[Singular Intellect]

I suspect the reasoning of the OP was influenced by examples like the series finale of Voyager.

Starfleet and the Federation was brought to it's knees by a single Borg cube in two known encounters. Fast forward a couple of decades and suddenly Starfleet technology can make a single medium sized class starship withstand the combined and concentrated firepower of three Borg cubes, while it's counter attack obliterates the cubes with one shot weaponry.

If that's not incredibly impressive gains in defensive and offensive technology, I don't have a fucking clue what is.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I suspect the reasoning of the OP was influenced by examples like the series finale of Voyager.

Starfleet and the Federation was brought to it's knees by a single Borg cube in two known encounters. Fast forward a couple of decades and suddenly Starfleet technology can make a single medium sized class starship withstand the combined and concentrated firepower of three Borg cubes, while it's counter attack obliterates the cubes with one shot weaponry.

If that's not incredibly impressive gains in defensive and offensive technology, I don't have a fucking clue what is.

I'll be they won't be nearly as effective against cubes from the same time as the armour and weapons. If you want a really impressive leap, look to All Good Things where the Ent-D shredded a Negh'Var. Of course, that was an anti-time future so is questionable at best.

[Singular Intellect]

I suspect the reasoning of the OP was influenced by examples like the series finale of Voyager.

Starfleet and the Federation was brought to it's knees by a single Borg cube in two known encounters. Fast forward a couple of decades and suddenly Starfleet technology can make a single medium sized class starship withstand the combined and concentrated firepower of three Borg cubes, while it's counter attack obliterates the cubes with one shot weaponry.

If that's not incredibly impressive gains in defensive and offensive technology, I don't have a fucking clue what is.

I'll be they won't be nearly as effective against cubes from the same time as the armour and weapons.

What's your point? Modern weapons and tactics against an equally modern enemy won't be as effective as against a non modern one. This has nothing to do with how quickly or impressive the progression is towards modernized (or rather futuristic) systems.

If you want a really impressive leap, look to All Good Things where the Ent-D shredded a Negh'Var. Of course, that was an anti-time future so is questionable at best.

Let me get this straight...the Enterprise D surprised and shredded one Negh'Var with multiple phaser canon shots, while Voyager withstood concentrated attacks by three Borg cubes, obliterating them with one or two torpedoes...and I'm supposed to find the Enterprise example more impressive?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I suspect the reasoning of the OP was influenced by examples like the series finale of Voyager.

Starfleet and the Federation was brought to it's knees by a single Borg cube in two known encounters. Fast forward a couple of decades and suddenly Starfleet technology can make a single medium sized class starship withstand the combined and concentrated firepower of three Borg cubes, while it's counter attack obliterates the cubes with one shot weaponry.

If that's not incredibly impressive gains in defensive and offensive technology, I don't have a fucking clue what is.

I'll be they won't be nearly as effective against cubes from the same time as the armour and weapons.

What's your point? Modern weapons and tactics against an equally modern enemy won't be as effective as against a non modern one. This has nothing to do with how quickly or impressive the progression is towards modernized (or rather futuristic) systems.

If you want a really impressive leap, look to All Good Things where the Ent-D shredded a Negh'Var. Of course, that was an anti-time future so is questionable at best.

Let me get this straight...the Enterprise D surprised and shredded one Negh'Var with multiple phaser canon shots, while Voyager withstood concentrated attacks by three Borg cubes, obliterating them with one or two torpedoes...and I'm supposed to find the Enterprise example more impressive?

Consider that the phaser cannon punched straight through the Negh'var, while the second ship fired at the Enterprise to little effect, I'd say that was pretty impressive.

[Singular Intellect]

Consider that the phaser cannon punched straight through the Negh'var, while the second ship fired at the Enterprise to little effect, I'd say that was pretty impressive.

Yes yes, and I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how the Enterprise surviving a couple of hits from a single Klingon ship and destroying another with several shots at all compares to Voyager withstanding concentrated firepower from fleet killing Borg cubes which Voyager in turned obliterated with single shot torpedoes.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Consider that the phaser cannon punched straight through the Negh'var, while the second ship fired at the Enterprise to little effect, I'd say that was pretty impressive.

Yes yes, and I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how the Enterprise surviving a couple of hits from a single Klingon ship and destroying another with several shots at all compares to Voyager withstanding concentrated firepower from fleet killing Borg cubes which Voyager in turned obliterated with single shot torpedoes.

The second Negh'var fired continually at the Enterprise, the first was disabled by the first shot by the Enterprise as it seemingly lost engines and weapons.

[Singular Intellect]

The second Negh'var fired continually at the Enterprise, the first was disabled by the first shot by the Enterprise as it seemingly lost engines and weapons.

I'm assuming you must be partially retarded to think that disabling a Klingon ship with a single hit is more impressive than blowing a Borg cube into space dust with a single hit.

Let me try to simplify it down for you:

-3 Borg Cubes firing on enhanced Voyager ship smaller than enhanced Enterprise D is more impressive than one piece of shit Klingon ship firing on Enterprise D.

-One shot obliterating Borg cubes is far more impressive than one shot disabling piece of shit Klingon ship and multiple shots to destroy it.

Unless of course, you actually think that Klingon ship packs a punch greater than three Borg cubes, and Voyager would've needed to fire more than one torpedo to destroy them.

[Stark]

Yes yes, and I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how the Enterprise surviving a couple of hits from a single Klingon ship and destroying another with several shots at all compares to Voyager withstanding concentrated firepower from fleet killing Borg cubes which Voyager in turned obliterated with single shot torpedoes.

You know that cubes have a weakness that makes them violently explode, right?

[Singular Intellect]

Yes yes, and I'm still waiting for your explanation as to how the Enterprise surviving a couple of hits from a single Klingon ship and destroying another with several shots at all compares to Voyager withstanding concentrated firepower from fleet killing Borg cubes which Voyager in turned obliterated with single shot torpedoes.

You know that cubes have a weakness that makes them violently explode, right?

Can't say that I do, no. Are you referring to First Contact where the cube exploded in a chain reaction like style?

That doesn't remotely resemble the way the cubes exploded in the Voyager finale as I recall.

[Stark]

Oh, so you honestly believe torpedo yields increased by orders of magnitude? And you think future Janeway having access to advanced shielding is 'technological progress' and not simply using captured Borg technology?

[EnterpriseSovereign]

The second Negh'var fired continually at the Enterprise, the first was disabled by the first shot by the Enterprise as it seemingly lost engines and weapons.

I'm assuming you must be partially retarded to think that disabling a Klingon ship with a single hit is more impressive than blowing a Borg cube into space dust with a single hit.

Let me try to simplify it down for you:

-3 Borg Cubes firing on enhanced Voyager ship smaller than enhanced Enterprise D is more impressive than one piece of shit Klingon ship firing on Enterprise D.

-One shot obliterating Borg cubes is far more impressive than one shot disabling piece of shit Klingon ship and multiple shots to destroy it.

Unless of course, you actually think that Klingon ship packs a punch greater than three Borg cubes, and Voyager would've needed to fire more than one torpedo to destroy them.

Take into account that the Enterprise and the Negh'vars are from the same time period versus Voyager having tech from the future, where the transphasic torpedo was specifically designed for use against the Borg, which may exploit some unique aspect of Borg technology and be of little use against other targets of the same era.

The armour was depleted to 40% before Voyager retaliated, so it couldn't take the punishment for much longer.

The Negh'var class was instrumental in bringing down the shields of DS9, hardly a piece of shit, unless you think the Klingons didn't bother upgrading the class.

The way the phaser beam ripped through the Klingons, suggests a highly powerful weapon, not merely messing around with frequencies and such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqe1m2p1BVM

[EnterpriseSovereign]

And because this is shown to be q's doing, should be taken with a punch of salt

[Singular Intellect]

Oh, so you honestly believe torpedo yields increased by orders of magnitude?

Can you give a reason why this is not at all possible?

And you think future Janeway having access to advanced shielding is 'technological progress' and not simply using captured Borg technology?

Give me a single example of Borg shielding even remotely resembling Voyager's batmobile armor style and I'll concede that point.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

Opps, pinch of salt. I'm trying to illustrate that the greatest leap that I can think of may not be entirely true to the rest of trek, if that makes sense.

[Stark]

Oh, so you honestly believe torpedo yields increased by orders of magnitude?

Can you give a reason why this is not at all possible?

I just think it's cool that you assume the torpedoes are hundreds or thousands of times more powerful (based on a delayed action, penetrating strike against known-volatile cubes) and use this as a benchmark for Fed progress, when it's far greater than the progress made in the previous hundred years.

And you think future Janeway having access to advanced shielding is 'technological progress' and not simply using captured Borg technology?

Give me a single example of Borg shielding even remotely resembling Voyager's batmobile armor style and I'll concede that point.

Captured borg technology would never magically conjure mass around a ship like in the Q Who repair event, right? And Voyager certainly didn't carry any captured borg technology back to the Alpha quadrant! As stated, it's not like the ship was laughing off the damage - and even by FC the Fed ships had reasonable endurance in combat versus cubes, and even in VOY eps I recall the ship surviving combat against cubes. Turns out, they got nerfed. LOL!

[Singular Intellect]

I just think it's cool that you assume the torpedoes are hundreds or thousands of times more powerful (based on a delayed action, penetrating strike against known-volatile cubes) and use this as a benchmark for Fed progress, when it's far greater than the progress made in the previous hundred years.

So you're not asserting it's not possible, just unlikely based upon your other assumptions. That was my specific question.

Captured borg technology would never magically conjure mass around a ship like in the Q Who repair event, right? And Voyager certainly didn't carry any captured borg technology back to the Alpha quadrant! As stated, it's not like the ship was laughing off the damage - and even by FC the Fed ships had reasonable endurance in combat versus cubes, and even in VOY eps I recall the ship surviving combat against cubes. Turns out, they got nerfed. LOL!

So, you have no evidence the Borg use anything like Voyager's batmobile armor system. I figured as much.

[Darth Wong]

Oh, so you honestly believe torpedo yields increased by orders of magnitude?

Can you give a reason why this is not at all possible?

Must be easy to debate when you get to make up arbitrary assumptions and then declare that the other person has to prove they're impossible.

Here's one for ya: quantum torpedoes are powered by bubble gum. Given the precedent for unrealistic science in Star Trek, can you prove that's not possible? The bubble gum is necessary because Borg shields can't adapt to it.

[Stark]

I just think it's cool that you assume the torpedoes are hundreds or thousands of times more powerful (based on a delayed action, penetrating strike against known-volatile cubes) and use this as a benchmark for Fed progress, when it's far greater than the progress made in the previous hundred years.

So you're not asserting it's not possible, just unlikely based upon your other assumptions. That was my specific question.

What? The Feds got Vulcan tech, jiggered with it for two hundred years, then got a pile of new tech from the Delta quadrant. So... this shows their massive speed of development? You don't think it's pretty lame to choose the one spike in their tech development and say that's the baseline? Even if *your* assumption (with no argument or evidence at all, despite the delayed, penetrative nature of the attack you talk about) that they're hundreds or thousands of times more powerful is true?

Captured borg technology would never magically conjure mass around a ship like in the Q Who repair event, right? And Voyager certainly didn't carry any captured borg technology back to the Alpha quadrant! As stated, it's not like the ship was laughing off the damage - and even by FC the Fed ships had reasonable endurance in combat versus cubes, and even in VOY eps I recall the ship surviving combat against cubes. Turns out, they got nerfed. LOL!

So, you have no evidence the Borg use anything like Voyager's batmobile armor system. I figured as much.

Way to ignore the argument, dumbass. The borg have done something similar - something the Feds can't do (one person per second transporter limits ftw). More to the fucking point, it didn't make them hundreds or thousands of times more resistant - like I said (and you ignored) unmodified VOY (or, shock, VOY with borg help) had survived combat with borg ships before. The Feds had already been successful against the borg simply by bringing more firepower to the table, so saying 'lol 39 ships at wolf lol VOY kills three' is a gross oversimplification. But wait, you think the tendency for cubes to explode if you poke them right is irrelevant, right?

OH I FIGURED AS MUCH.

[Singular Intellect]

Oh, so you honestly believe torpedo yields increased by orders of magnitude?

Can you give a reason why this is not at all possible?

Must be easy to debate when you get to make up arbitrary assumptions and then declare that the other person has to prove they're impossible.

Here's one for ya: quantum torpedoes are powered by bubble gum. Given the precedent for unrealistic science in Star Trek, can you prove that's not possible? The bubble gum is necessary because Borg shields can't adapt to it.

I understand your point, however I'm attempting to employ parsimony in regards to cubes being destroyed by Voyager's torpedoes. IE: Voyager fired torpedoes, the cubes exploded. The first one didn't right away, but this can easily be dismissed as warhead detonators not being perfect. The second cube did explode violently the instant the single torpedo hit it.

But instead I'm hearing a far more complex theory that seems to assume the obvious chain reaction style cube explosion in FC is the same thing going on in the cubes destroyed Voyager, even though they look nothing alike.

I find this quite confusing, to be honest.

[Stark]

So 'suddenly massively more powerful' is 'simpler' than 'uses known weaknesses'? Is that like how taking a highpoint of tech development and using it as a baseline is fair and balanced?