Apple in resource crunch, iPhone on track, Leopard delayed

Xisiqomelir · Post by **Xisiqomelir** » 2007-04-13 03:44pm

Apple Statement

iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can’t wait until customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a revolutionary and magical product it is. However, iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price — we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team, and as a result we will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference in early June as planned. While Leopard's features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're sure we've made the right ones. [Apr 12, 2007]

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-04-13 04:10pm

I have to work on these goddamn Macs at my place of employment, so when can I expect Leopard to be actually usable? Is there a little bit of a 'growing pains' period in which burps need to be evened out, or is this extended development phase going to mean an effortless transition?

And, is there a place to see compatibility information? I need to know if it's going to run Maya and Aftereffects just fine, and I get antsy when they start messing around with Big Fancy Development terminology. Maya has always been shakey on the Mac, and I want to be able to advise my employer in case there's a reason for me to want them hold off a bit on upgrades. I also still want to be able to interface my PC stuff with it. Right now I can, using my Kingston USB key and a powered hub as the go-between, and I don't want Leopard to go "pc key wtf m8" and get all whiny about it.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-13 07:24pm

Covenant wrote: And, is there a place to see compatibility information? I need to know if it's going to run Maya and Aftereffects just fine, and I get antsy when they start messing around with Big Fancy Development terminology. Maya has always been shakey on the Mac, and I want to be able to advise my employer in case there's a reason for me to want them hold off a bit on upgrades. I also still want to be able to interface my PC stuff with it. Right now I can, using my Kingston USB key and a powered hub as the go-between, and I don't want Leopard to go "pc key wtf m8" and get all whiny about it.

This isn't the Windows world; generally, new Mac OS releases virtually never break compatibility with previous ones, except in cases of major shifts (such as when they switched to UNIX in 2000). They just add stuff, so future apps might only work on the new OS, but old apps won't have any problems.

And it's ridiculous to think that they'd remove the ability to read FAT32 from Leopard, especially when a big new feature of Leopard will be Boot Camp. Your USB key will definitely work, guaranteed, 100%, and I'd find it HIGHLY, EXTREMELY unlikely that Maya will break.

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-04-13 07:38pm

Something to this effect was expected - Ars had articles as far as 2 months ago about such a possibility being likely since none of the standard pre-release stuff was happening for the process to be on track for WDC.

I'm not so sure I'm buying the "iPhone forced us to reallocate engineers" line compared to an simple explanation of slippage do to unrealistic expectations, unexpected problems and all the other usual suspects, especially this late in the game. If it did cause slippage the decision to reallocate had to happen around the New Year at the latest for there not to be the expected signs in time so why wait if you will announce that? Reliable timetables are something developers like. Meh, not that it matters all that much which is the correct reason...

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-04-13 08:00pm

Praxis wrote:
Covenant wrote: And, is there a place to see compatibility information? I need to know if it's going to run Maya and Aftereffects just fine, and I get antsy when they start messing around with Big Fancy Development terminology. Maya has always been shakey on the Mac, and I want to be able to advise my employer in case there's a reason for me to want them hold off a bit on upgrades. I also still want to be able to interface my PC stuff with it. Right now I can, using my Kingston USB key and a powered hub as the go-between, and I don't want Leopard to go "pc key wtf m8" and get all whiny about it.
This isn't the Windows world; generally, new Mac OS releases virtually never break compatibility with previous ones, except in cases of major shifts (such as when they switched to UNIX in 2000). They just add stuff, so future apps might only work on the new OS, but old apps won't have any problems.

And it's ridiculous to think that they'd remove the ability to read FAT32 from Leopard, especially when a big new feature of Leopard will be Boot Camp. Your USB key will definitely work, guaranteed, 100%, and I'd find it HIGHLY, EXTREMELY unlikely that Maya will break.

Excellent. I prefer PC's, but window's torturous upgrade phase always made the transition from one phase to another more of an interegnum than an upgrade. Since the Maya format shouldn't change, and since it shouldn't install more wierdness on my key (it put some kind of macOS folder on it that windows didn't mind) I won't have to worry. Score one for cross-platform programs!

Elessar · Post by **Elessar** » 2007-04-14 12:51am

I suppose waiting an additional quarter or two isn't really a big deal in the long run, but I was anxiously awaiting their next release. Apple's decision to bundle Spaces has killed off one of my favourite apps -- VirtueDesktops -- and their decision to delay means longer still before I get an improved virtual-desktop manager. And of course, there's still no guarantee that Spaces is actually any good. Well, at least it's aware of Expose and the Dock.

I wonder what it's like to be all those software developers that had pegged their next release to be Leopard only... losing out on all those months of income can't be good for business.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-14 12:58am

Yeah, I'm putting off replacing a Mac laptop until Leopard comes out. Oh well, like others I never really believed the 'real soon' release dates.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-14 02:02am

Elessar wrote: I wonder what it's like to be all those software developers that had pegged their next release to be Leopard only... losing out on all those months of income can't be good for business.

Yeah, I suspected Adobe CS3 might be Leopard-only because of the release date. Guess not.

Also suspect the next version of Final Cut Studio rumored for Sunday will be Leopard only...

Curious what the rumored Final Cut Extreme will be.

Yeah, I'm putting off replacing a Mac laptop until Leopard comes out. Oh well, like others I never really believed the 'real soon' release dates.

That seems...silly.

If you need it now, buy it now. If you don't need it now, then wait, regardless of Leopard. I wouldn't suggest bothering to wait unless Leopard was, like, a month away.

A student can buy a copy of Leopard for you for $69 anyway. I don't think it should factor into the decision. Of course, if you DON'T need a computer now, then wait anyway.

However, I wouldn't recommend getting a MacBook Pro yet; it's due for an update soon.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-14 02:45am

Oh, I hadn't bothered looking into Leopard pricing, I just knew the upgrade wasn't free. And I don't 'need' to upgrade - I'm just not going to buy a laptop and then have to turn around and jack out more cash for the new OS.

And yeah, I'd heard about the expected new Pros... but I can't really justify buying a Pro for the use it'll get.

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2007-04-14 03:09am

They're going to regret this when the iPhone bombs.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-14 03:33am

Stark wrote:Oh, I hadn't bothered looking into Leopard pricing, I just knew the upgrade wasn't free. And I don't 'need' to upgrade - I'm just not going to buy a laptop and then have to turn around and jack out more cash for the new OS.

And yeah, I'd heard about the expected new Pros... but I can't really justify buying a Pro for the use it'll get.

Honestly, paying $69 for having the machine half a year earlier isn't much at all. That's barely more than what most people pay for a year of antivirus support.

Apple's OS's always cost $129, or $69 for students. Get a student to buy it for you. Heck, the 5-user license versions cost $199...

Granted, when you buy a new Mac you also get the current iLife, so if you wanted the new OS AND the new iLife, it would cost you $69 + $49 on student pricing. Still not bad at all, compared to Vista.

However, if you DON'T need the machine, waiting is probably going to end up giving you a machine with better specs anyway. Everyone is expecting new MacBooks within a month or two of Santa Rosa launch, and the MacBook Pro is due for an update very soon. But I doubt you'll regret buying now (unless it's a Pro, don't buy a Pro now, definitely).

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2007-04-14 03:37am

Drooling Iguana wrote:They're going to regret this when the iPhone bombs.

Sounds so familiar...
Where have I heard it before?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread. ... readid=500

hey - heres an idea Apple - rather than enter the world of gimmicks and toys, why dont you spend a little more time sorting out your pathetically expensive and crap server line up?

I still can't believe this! All this hype for something so ridiculous! Who cares about an MP3 player? I want something new! I want them to think differently!
Why oh why would they do this?! It's so wrong! It's so stupid!

$400 for an Mp3 Player!

I'd call it the Cube 2.0 as it wont sell, and be killed off in a short time...and it's not really functional.

All that hype for an MP3 player? Break-thru digital device? The Reality Distiortion Field™ is starting to warp Steve's mind if he thinks for one second that this thing is gonna take off.

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-04-14 04:26am

I hope the iPhone tanks like a lead balloon, simply because I hate everything the device stands for, but I wager it'll go the way of the successful Macbook and not the abysmal Newton. It really does look fairly functional, and there's a lot of hardcore mac fanboys who'll buy anything made out of that bullshit clear plastic. Once people look over their shoulders at the thing, they're gonna want one too. Even if it's expensive and a hassle to sign up stuff for, it's got a real slick interface and a lot of nice user benefits. I rarely use my phone, and that's the way I like it, so I'd never need an iPhone. However, for someone who does, I can see the allure.

Plus, it looks like a really decent phone. I hate macs more than anyone else on the planet, that's for damn sure, but the iPhone seems smartly built and has a more useful reason to exist than the stupid iPods do. I still consider those damn things a piece of moronic luxury wrapped inside a cocoon of raw evil.

And the reason I said macbook and not ipod up there is the price and hassle. Everyone and their dog has an ipod (except me) and everyone nowadays seems to have a cellphone too. But while the iPod is light and handy in it's recent incarnations, and useful for everything from going jogging in the gym, to bike riding, to commuting or file storage and even mounting into a stereo, the phone is a phone. Even if it's totally awesome at doing whatever bullshit a cellphone does, you may not always want to have your phone on you, and you may not want to buy the newest, most expensive one, especially if it's the iPhone. Businessmen who want the thing for thus-and-so may find it lacking here, while the kids who love it may not have the money (or parental permission) to get one.

So I think it'll do quite well financially, taking a big chunk of the money-to-spend crowd between highschool and gray hair, but I can't see the thing becoming the be-all end-all accessory of the iPod. There was just about nobody in the MP3 business, so when Apple threw it's weight into the ring it just crushed the competition. Telecoms and such are really the lurking horrors that exist outside of the arena Apple fought in during the iPod era, and I think they know that. If they can forge some alliances, it'll do well. Otherwise they may just be stonewalled and strangled to death by Cthulhucom.

Regardless, it's going to make a lot of money. If it sticks around for the next century or not is really irrelevent. I think it'll revolutionize either PDAs or Cellphones, with it's nice big touch screen, even if it doesn't itself take off. We might be seeing iPhone Micros or something coming on the market in 3 years the same as we did with iPods, so I doubt we'll be seeing this technology disappear soon, even if nobody bought it at all.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-04-14 04:34am

Cov, your luddite opinions on consumer electronics never cease to amuse.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2007-04-14 05:32am

I hope Cthulthucom strangles the iPhone to death!

Fuck Apple! Fuck that trendy bullshit! If there was one reason to support communism, it'd be the iPod!

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-04-14 12:57pm

Covenant wrote:So I think it'll do quite well financially, taking a big chunk of the money-to-spend crowd between highschool and gray hair, but I can't see the thing becoming the be-all end-all accessory of the iPod. There was just about nobody in the MP3 business, so when Apple threw it's weight into the ring it just crushed the competition. Telecoms and such are really the lurking horrors that exist outside of the arena Apple fought in during the iPod era, and I think they know that. If they can forge some alliances, it'll do well. Otherwise they may just be stonewalled and strangled to death by Cthulhucom.

You do realize that Apple is only going for the top 1% or so of the market with this iPhone? They're not trying to crush the entire market like they did with the iPod.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-14 05:32pm

Covenant wrote:I have to work on these goddamn Macs at my place of employment, so when can I expect Leopard to be actually usable?

Why are you using Leopard at your workplace?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-14 05:36pm

Covenant wrote:I hope the iPhone tanks like a lead balloon, simply because I hate everything the device stands for, but I wager it'll go the way of the successful Macbook and not the abysmal Newton.

Um ... what does it "stand for"? Quality hardware engineering?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2007-04-14 05:59pm

Durandal wrote:Um ... what does it "stand for"? Quality hardware engineering?

No, more like style over substance engineering. I recall apple spent an absurd amount of money and time working on the transparent case for the Mac Cube to get it to look right; when they could have spent the money elsewhere to get a better bang for buck ROI.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-14 06:11pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Durandal wrote:Um ... what does it "stand for"? Quality hardware engineering?
No, more like style over substance engineering.

Ah so you've used one?

Covenant · Post by **Covenant** » 2007-04-14 06:58pm

I am indeed a luddite, so don't take my comments as rational criticism of Apple. I'm not an industry analyst, just a user who has a deep hatred for their products, and especially their OS.

The 'what it stands for' is more the amalgamation of all these whizbang doohickies into one annoying, blinking, transparent plastic piece of tooth-rotting sweetness. And sweetness in the pejorative sense that their cute little one-button circle mice, translucent plastic cases, and bouncing bullshit Docks are 'sweet' and happy. For reference, when I just got my first cellphone a month ago to help cope with commuting, I specifically asked for the largest phone they had, with the least bullshit on it. I got a Katana, not only because it was cheap with the plan I'm adding myself to (like 30 bucks), but because it had nice big buttons and zero bullshit.

The iPhone is attractive for a similar reason, and even makes the bullshit relatively easy to access. Comfortably sized, with nice large interface buttons and a lot of slickly designed UI stuff. If they make a stripped down version, I'd consider purchasing one, but for the time being it's not going to go into my 'to-get' list.

Phogn,

I agreed. As for attracting the top 1%, I think I said that in my post, when comparing it to the Macbook. I expect the iPhone to absolutely beat the shit out of nearly every other trendy phone, and soak up a lot of the usability market as well. It may be too expensive for most people, but I think Apple has done a smart thing, and by doing all of this in one big bundle they also allow the buzz to get going. Once they decide to release newer, possibly more specialized (ie, like the Nano) knockoffs of the same product, the market share could grow.

If it can wirelessly talk to my computer, store a good 50 megs of files, and also handle all the mundane PDA tasks you'd expect from a fully functional micro-OS, then I'd really find it hard to imagine not doing well and would even find it hard not to buy myself once the price comes down. My allergic distaste to trendy bullshit luxury and anything in that mac plastic wrap coating is a personal opinion. I dislike using macs immensely, but my personal preference and reality rarely speak on this issue.

Durandal,

I'm not, but my employer has talked about getting it. I'm not sure why, I just finished lobotomizing whatever version of MacOS we're running currently, and having to disable half of the thing's crap all over again will drive me insane. I just assumed that, like most OS, Macs would put out a copy that usually worked but had a few bugs. And I really would rather not have to deal with bugs. I've heard that the version of Leopard they have right now is garbage, and that they really need to work on it for a bit.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-14 07:09pm

Covenant wrote:I'm not, but my employer has talked about getting it. I'm not sure why, I just finished lobotomizing whatever version of MacOS we're running currently, and having to disable half of the thing's crap all over again will drive me insane.

What the hell are you talking about?

I just assumed that, like most OS, Macs would put out a copy that usually worked but had a few bugs. And I really would rather not have to deal with bugs. I've heard that the version of Leopard they have right now is garbage, and that they really need to work on it for a bit.

Um ... Leopard isn't available yet. And the company which makes Mac OS X is Apple Inc, not "Macs".

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2007-04-14 07:12pm

Durandal wrote:
MKSheppard wrote:
Durandal wrote:Um ... what does it "stand for"? Quality hardware engineering?
No, more like style over substance engineering.
Ah so you've used one?

It means that an iPod 20 gig that costs me $299 but looks all slick and thin and whatever is by no means a better buy than a comparable Zen or other company's MP3 player that costs half as much. I've got a Zen 40Gig Jukebox that I bought for 90 bucks, and it works just fine.

How much is the iPhone again? 500 dollars? for a mere 4 gig Mp3 player and cellphone hybrid? For that much, you could buy a top line standard MP3 player and quality cellphone.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2007-04-14 07:59pm

Not referring to this model in particular, but this 90's device has everything i need, want, will pay for and, most importantly, will use, in a cell phone. If someone would make a modern small, cheap cell phone that does nothing but keep your directory and dial numbers i would pick that over the iPhone every day of the week and twice on sunday. Devices that half ass their entire feature list and cost a bundle are useless to me.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2007-04-14 08:03pm

Nephtys wrote:It means that an iPod 20 gig that costs me $299 but looks all slick and thin and whatever is by no means a better buy than a comparable Zen or other company's MP3 player that costs half as much. I've got a Zen 40Gig Jukebox that I bought for 90 bucks, and it works just fine.

And of course, everyone's just been so mesmerized by the iPod that they're willing to just spend 3x what they need to. No, there couldn't possibly be a legitimate reason to buy an iPod.

How much is the iPhone again? 500 dollars? for a mere 4 gig Mp3 player and cellphone hybrid? For that much, you could buy a top line standard MP3 player and quality cellphone.

And guess what? They'd still be different devices. Do you think that kind of integration just happens magically?