Apple in resource crunch, iPhone on track, Leopard delayed

[Praxis]

Your reference to Tiger doesn't ring any bells to me, as I don't follow their stuff. I am completely, utterly unaware of a single Mac-related announcement or news item older than about two months ago. I said I heard it was looking crappy and going to need to be delayed. Lo and behold, it has been delayed. I didn't make a value judgement. What about that don't you get? Before you mash the reply button, read down, and you'll see why quoting that bit over and over doesn't make any sense. It's me being GLAD that they are pushing it back, rather than rushing it.

Because, you idiot, Tiger is the CURRENT OPERATING SYSTEM. You are using it right now.

I won't pile on the next part of your post, as nothing is too wrong with it, so I just deleted it to save space.

What the heck are you talking about?

Were you too stupid to change the default settings? What is annoying and ugly about MP4 encoding? Where are you EVER forced to encode in MP4?

I think the only AAC files on my iPod are the one CD I bought off of iTunes (and I immediately burned it to a CD and ripped it as MP3, too. In iTunes).

I don't have an iPod, or use iTunes, so what you're saying has no bearing on what I'm talking about.

So you're choosing to argue over something that is completely untrue because you've never actually used the product?

Just concede that you're wrong and quit making excuses. What are you talking about? You claim Apple forces MP4 on users. They don't.

If I'm given data to use, and it's in a format nothing else wants (MP4's) then it's just garbage to me.

Then it's the fault of the user for sending you an MP4. iMovie can't open WMAs, I'm not bewailing Windows Media Player for encoding that by default, am I?

I'm never encoding anything using iTunes so I wouldn't know what the default is, being as the closest I've ever gotten to the program is explaining to someone why I need them to go back and convert them back into MP3's that the rest of the world can use. Why these are in MP4 by default I just cannot understand, it's certainly nowhere near an industry standard, or easier. I convert CD audio into whatever just fine as is without it, and don't require the hassle of iTunes.

Wow. You really are retarded, aren't you? I'm too sleepy to explain how stupid this post is, I'll go to bed and let Durandal do it.

So your rant's off-base. A lot of other people are too stupid to change the default setting, and end up shafting me when they hand me a data CD that has audio they want edited. I usually make it clear I need it in MP3 format, but people don't often realize that the MP4 encoding is going on at all, mostly because the encoding itself is rather invisible unless you point out to them what's going on.

People hand me WMA CDs all the time. You don't see me complaining. I just convert them to MP3 using iTunes.

If everyone else was smart enough to stop giving me discs full of MP4's that I can't use, then I'd be happy. However that's not the case, and the fact that not another goddamn program knows what the hell to do with an MP4 does somewhat decrease my excitement in seeing it as the default.

If everyone was smart enough to stop giving me discs full of WMA's that I can't use, then I'd be happy. However that's not the case, and the fact that not another goddamn program knows what the hell to do with an WMA does somewhat decrease my excitement in seeing it as the default.

[Nephtys]

The Zen Vision M or whatever the current model is called is 30GB, $180 and plays Divx and Mpeg movies. Compared to the 30GB iPod video which does the same, is more or less the same shape/size, and costs $250.

In brick-and-mortar stores it is still currently priced at $250, and the iPod is due for an update. But regardless, you still come up with the same things I mentioned.

The Vision M is still nearly twice as fat (18 mm vs 10 mm) and heavier as well.

Right before I hit submit, I thought I'd go and check Creative's website. What do you, know? Creative Zen Vision M is listed at $250 for 30 GB. *rolls eyes*

I ran google. The Zen Vision M came up as ~170 from it's vendors, and the ipod was still 240 from the same place. Whatever you say.

[Covenant]

Honestly, I'm not sure we are using Tiger. I saw the install boxes, and they looked like the ones on the left and said OSX on them.



So we may not have that.

As for the rest, fine, iTunes doesn't force people to use MP4's, it just makes it the default. I withdraw previous statements that it was in any way a mac-specific file format. I was gravely mistaken! I guess people just don't realize, and don't change the default. That was my original source of frustration with it--I had to get access to a media library full of MP3 sfx files but they'd been compiled and organized via iTunes and I swear the person who did it turned them all into MP4's. It took forever to turn them all back and was a total nightmare.

As for windows media player, it's not like bashing that is going to rile me up. I think it's a piece of trash as well. It's not like Windows is all that good, it just doesn't have creative ways of slowing my day down, so it's the lesser of two evils at the moment. For cross-platform compatibility I'm usually using Quicktimes, which are nearly identical to the M4A's anyway, and my favorite apple import.

Related question, not flamebait, does the iPod read regular ol' MP3's, or does it convert them on-the-fly into MP4's? And, if so, can you tell it not to? Was I utterly misinformed when I was told you needed to upload music to your iPod via iTunes? And even if you are, can't you tell it just to make them regular MP3's, and have it play those? I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be able to.

[Covenant]

The Zen Vision M or whatever the current model is called is 30GB, $180 and plays Divx and Mpeg movies. Compared to the 30GB iPod video which does the same, is more or less the same shape/size, and costs $250.

In brick-and-mortar stores it is still currently priced at $250, and the iPod is due for an update. But regardless, you still come up with the same things I mentioned.

The Vision M is still nearly twice as fat (18 mm vs 10 mm) and heavier as well.

Right before I hit submit, I thought I'd go and check Creative's website. What do you, know? Creative Zen Vision M is listed at $250 for 30 GB. *rolls eyes*

I ran google. The Zen Vision M came up as ~170 from it's vendors, and the ipod was still 240 from the same place. Whatever you say.

I actually found a vision listed for about 175. With a coupon discount it goes down to 160. However, those are the discounts added in. Without that, the basic cost is about 250. That's the LISTED price. You can buy it from just about anywhere else for about 80 bucks less. A similar search for the iPod got a buncha' used versions for about 200-230 bucks, so the difference is relatively minor. If you absolutely HAVE to have the iPod, you can find a used one for just a little bit more than the generic version from a smart-shopper site and a little bit less than the generic version at Best Buy or the manufacturer's site.

In all honesty, I think that people pay the extra 50 bucks or so just to have it smaller, lighter, and more fully intergrated. I think it's less that it has extra features and more that it's features are crammed into a slicker package. Despite my qualms with the needlessness of 30 gigs of audio and video on a screen smaller than my cellphone, I think those high-end versions fall under the same 1% clause as the iPhone. The superPod may not be for everyone, but I think it's just good business sense for them to make a few with all the bells and whistles imaginable. I know that when it comes to things I do care about, like computer parts or appliances, spending that extra premium to get the best fit is really worth it in the long run.

And if everyone has one, that itself makes them easier to use, so you're also paying a little bit more to get access to a broad knowledgebase. It may not be for everyone, but the iPod is probably the best designed piece of stupid luxury trash in memory. Kinda like the Wii, which I happen to really like. Go figure.

[Zac Naloen]

Seeing as everyone is talking about iPods at the mo' have they fixed that thing where almost as soon as the warranty runs out the iPod dies and needs replacing?


Has happened to nearly everyone I know with iPods (heavy users though).

I'm not buying one till I stop hearing about that kind of shit.


And which, being an owner of an now very old and still working Zen doesn't really inspire much confidence.

[Covenant]

Seeing as everyone is talking about iPods at the mo' have they fixed that thing where almost as soon as the warranty runs out the iPod dies and needs replacing?


Has happened to nearly everyone I know with iPods (heavy users though).

I'm not buying one till I stop hearing about that kind of shit.


And which, being an owner of an now very old and still working Zen doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Isn't that just the battery? My brother's did this, and it was the battery. Lost more and more charge until it would have almost zero lifespan. That's a failure that seems common to a variety of rechargable batteries that do not have chargers that specifically dump the charge first. Can't you just get a new battery?

[Zac Naloen]

Seeing as everyone is talking about iPods at the mo' have they fixed that thing where almost as soon as the warranty runs out the iPod dies and needs replacing?


Has happened to nearly everyone I know with iPods (heavy users though).

I'm not buying one till I stop hearing about that kind of shit.


And which, being an owner of an now very old and still working Zen doesn't really inspire much confidence.

Isn't that just the battery? My brother's did this, and it was the battery. Lost more and more charge until it would have almost zero lifespan. That's a failure that seems common to a variety of rechargable batteries that do not have chargers that specifically dump the charge first. Can't you just get a new battery?

According the Ipod it was a either Hard drive failure or the Battery.

Whether you can repair it isn't the point, I don't want to have to spend anymore on an iPod than the amount I pay over the till when I make the purchase, the possibiity of having to get it repaired at all puts me off.

I don't even use my Creative player anymore though, I have a 4gig flash drive in my phone which I've filled with music and use that as my mp3 player these days.

[Stark]

Seeing as everyone is talking about iPods at the mo' have they fixed that thing where almost as soon as the warranty runs out the iPod dies and needs replacing?


Has happened to nearly everyone I know with iPods (heavy users though).

I'm not buying one till I stop hearing about that kind of shit.


And which, being an owner of an now very old and still working Zen doesn't really inspire much confidence.

I've got a 4th gen iPod (fourish years old) that still works fine. I hear plenty of people talk about their iPods that just 'died', but it hasn't happened to me and all the people I know with this problem treat their iPods poorly.

[Covenant]

I can't imagine this is actually as widespread as it seems. I bet people just play them to death, and notice ipods dying a lot because they're so common. Still, for any expensive thing, you want it to last. I'm happy that your Zen is still working, I know somebody with one who likes it.

===

Also, update. I learned that my issues with Maya aren't limited to me, after doing some google trawling to see how other people feel about it. I know Maya on a Mac is not an industry standard, and it's generally not recommended, but now I see why--it's not Apple's fault though. It seems like a lot of people have problems with compatibility. Mac support from Maya's new owners sounds like it's pretty terrible, and that when they built it for Mac release they really dropped the ball. So I guess I can blame the program for a few of the issues. This is a somewhat disheartening reveleation, but hopefully a combination of Leopard and Maya 8.5 will get everything back up to speed.

Ah well. Just more reasons to hope they take their time. With a sizable fraction of Maya sales going to Mac folks, their extended development should make sure everything works better this time around.

[Elessar]

There's a lot other MP3 players of similar size and shape. And apperance really. I rather like the new minizens.

Tell me what accessories extend iPod functionality? As far as I can tell.

- A bunch of leather pockets you can put it in so it doesn't break
- 20-50% Overpriced brand name white earbuds
- Car tape player that every other MP3, Walkman and CD Player has
- Dock/Charger that's no different than plugging it into an adapter
- The 'iBox' which is a 300 dollar boom box with worse audio quality than a 100 dollar one you drop an ipod into, as opposed to just plugging a headphone adapter into a conventional speaker
- A bunch of stickers.

The only one of those that is not found on other players, for less money... happens to be the stickers. Those don't seem to increase functionality very much...

Funny, first you discount the size and appearance of the iPod, then you go ahead and admit that the competitors are copying from the same. Certainly no other reason other than 'designer label', right?

I don't exactly see the reason why I should be defending every accessory's use, despite their existence. You can handwave their particular use for you all you want, but it's clearly obvious that the iPod's extended family is massive and unmatched by any other vendor.

[Elessar]

There are big advantages to having a global menubar.

I'm curious; what are they?

Mostly unified UI. Muscle memory and it's always on the edge of the screen (for an nigh-infinite hitbox), allowing you to reach the menus much faster. Coupled with Apple's design guidelines (such as forcing Preferences to be under a menu named after the Application you're using instead of hiding it under Edit, Tools or even Help), you end up not having to break your train of thought in order to do something in the menu bar.

It's a very subtle difference, but muscle memory is big. It's the same reason why I detest new style Tab-close buttons, I have to hunt down the specific tab and then hit the close button instead of always going to the same spot. Same thing for Application menu bars that are unbound from their window.

[Vympel]

I'd get an iPhone just because I never did buy an iPod. Unfortunately, it's not being supported in Australia for some retarded reason, so I suspect I won't own any sort of MP3 player in the near future.

Still, no big loss for me, as I don't have a large MP3 collection nor do I listen to music that much ... so ... erm ...

I just want a damn new phone that looks nice, ok? Stupid no iPhone in Australia ...

[Uraniun235]

Related question, not flamebait, does the iPod read regular ol' MP3's, or does it convert them on-the-fly into MP4's? And, if so, can you tell it not to? Was I utterly misinformed when I was told you needed to upload music to your iPod via iTunes?

My iPod Mini stores the files as .mp3 files, so I would imagine it uses MP3 just fine.

And no, you don't need to use iTunes, although I'm pretty sure you do need to use a program of some sort to upload them. I personally use Yamipod, although that's a Windows app and I'm not sure what OS you use.

Funny, first you discount the size and appearance of the iPod, then you go ahead and admit that the competitors are copying from the same. Certainly no other reason other than 'designer label', right?

Yeah, because it's completely ridiculous that a competitor might copy a design and then attempt to either make a cheaper or improved version of it, right? That never happens in business!

[Praxis]

Honestly, I'm not sure we are using Tiger. I saw the install boxes, and they looked like the ones on the left and said OSX on them.



So we may not have that.

I would have a hard time believing you are using anything but Tiger.

Only Tiger has Dashboard.

Only Tiger and Panther have Expose.

If you're using the box on the far left, Mac OS X 10.1 "Puma", then no wonder you hate it; that'd be like using Windows ME or 98 and complaining about how much Windows sucks!

As for the rest, fine, iTunes doesn't force people to use MP4's, it just makes it the default. I withdraw previous statements that it was in any way a mac-specific file format. I was gravely mistaken! I guess people just don't realize, and don't change the default. That was my original source of frustration with it--I had to get access to a media library full of MP3 sfx files but they'd been compiled and organized via iTunes and I swear the person who did it turned them all into MP4's. It took forever to turn them all back and was a total nightmare.

As for windows media player, it's not like bashing that is going to rile me up. I think it's a piece of trash as well. It's not like Windows is all that good, it just doesn't have creative ways of slowing my day down, so it's the lesser of two evils at the moment. For cross-platform compatibility I'm usually using Quicktimes, which are nearly identical to the M4A's anyway, and my favorite apple import.

Related question, not flamebait, does the iPod read regular ol' MP3's, or does it convert them on-the-fly into MP4's? And, if so, can you tell it not to? Was I utterly misinformed when I was told you needed to upload music to your iPod via iTunes? And even if you are, can't you tell it just to make them regular MP3's, and have it play those? I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be able to.

Yes. My entire iTunes library is MP3, and everything on my iPod is MP3. The iPod plays MP3.

You have to use iTunes to put music on your iPod (though there are now a few free third party apps, iTunes always works best), but iTunes can have your entire library as MP3's and can convert any file (except DRM-protected songs) into MP3 if you set the default encoder to MP3 and right click on the song.

In fact, iTunes will even auto-convert WMA files to MP3 (or whatever your encoder is set to) if you try to put them on an iPod, since iPods don't play WMA.

[Covenant]

It's gotta be Tiger then, since I have the dashboard.

BTW, if I wanted to install a driver onto the machine, how would I do that?

[Praxis]

I'd get an iPhone just because I never did buy an iPod. Unfortunately, it's not being supported in Australia for some retarded reason, so I suspect I won't own any sort of MP3 player in the near future.

Still, no big loss for me, as I don't have a large MP3 collection nor do I listen to music that much ... so ... erm ...

I just want a damn new phone that looks nice, ok? Stupid no iPhone in Australia ...

My jury's still out on the iPhone, actually. I think it's a spectacular product...I just don't know if I'm buying it.

I've always been a phone cheapskate, not really caring about what fancy gizmos I've had. My current phone is a freebie, doesn't even support picture messaging. It's starting to get slightly irritating in that people keep sending me picture messages.

I have a 60 GB iPod I got very cheap with Apple's "buy a new Mac, get a free iPod Nano" deal; got the Nano price discounted off the iPod, and I got $100 off the 60 GB iPod because it was right as the 80 GB came out, so I only payed $120 for the 60 GB iPod which had cost $400 the week before.

However, my music library is very small; about a gigabyte, maybe a little less. Basically, 5-6 Weird Al CD's and a lot of soundtracks (Phantom of the Opera, Kingdom Hearts, Zelda, Hyrule Symphony, etc).

If I got the iPhone, I could put my entire music library on it. I also have around 2000 photos, and the real reason I'm using my 60 GB iPod; I've got every episode of SatAM and Dexter's Lab, plus around 10-15 movies ripped to it.

I could put my music library and two full-length movies on a 4 GB iPhone, or 4-5 full length movies on an 8 GB. I would have a MUCH larger and higher-res screen to watch it on, plus the speaker so I won't need headphones on when I'm at home. This is appealing.

$500-$600 is not appealing, considering what else I could buy for that money...but that's not the ugly part. The ugly part is that my parents have paid off a T-Mobile family plan. I don't pay a DIME on cell phones. Switching to Cingular means I have a new monthly payment I never had before, which can amount to four-digit-numbers over two years.

So, heck no, I am not buying an iPhone if it means switching to Cingular. But I am strongly considering it when an unlocked version comes out, or importing from Europe (but that might cost even more).

[Praxis]

It's gotta be Tiger then, since I have the dashboard.

BTW, if I wanted to install a driver onto the machine, how would I do that?

Same way you'd do it on Windows; download it from the manufacturer's web site, double-click the installer.

What kind of driver?

[Praxis]

Seeing as everyone is talking about iPods at the mo' have they fixed that thing where almost as soon as the warranty runs out the iPod dies and needs replacing?


Has happened to nearly everyone I know with iPods (heavy users though).

I'm not buying one till I stop hearing about that kind of shit.


And which, being an owner of an now very old and still working Zen doesn't really inspire much confidence.

See, I hear people complaining about that online a lot, but not one of my friends has had that happen.

IIRC it was the battery; $59 gets Apple to replace it for you, or you can buy a kit to do it yourself for $20, though the kit requires you to pry the iPod open which risks bending the edges.

Anyway, I bought a new 5G iPod, my sister sold her old 2G iPod (many years old, working perfectly; when were those sold, 2001? 2002?) and bought a refurb 5G iPod. No problems so far.

[Durandal]

There are big advantages to having a global menubar.

I'm curious; what are they?

Fitt's Law. It's a constant, and the File menu, for example, is basically always in the same place. You can basically flick your mouse upward and hit your target, whereas with the per-window menu bar, you have to be precise on both axes, not just one. Even if your window is maximized, you still can't just flick your mouse upward and land on the menu bar.

It's a very subtle difference, but muscle memory is big. It's the same reason why I detest new style Tab-close buttons, I have to hunt down the specific tab and then hit the close button instead of always going to the same spot. Same thing for Application menu bars that are unbound from their window.

Closing a tab is a destructive action. It's all too easy (for me, at least) to accidentally hit the close button in Firefox twice and close a tab that I didn't mean to. So requiring extra cognitive attention to close a tab is reasonable.

[Covenant]

It's gotta be Tiger then, since I have the dashboard.

BTW, if I wanted to install a driver onto the machine, how would I do that?

Same way you'd do it on Windows; download it from the manufacturer's web site, double-click the installer.

What kind of driver?

Mouse driver, though depending on the Mac version I'm running, it may have native support. I just wanted to know if I needed a .driver or something like the way they handled applications and drop it into a driver folder.

Code: Select all

Mac

▪ 5 buttons in OS X 10.4.5 without a driver: left click (top), right click (middle), expose' (bottom), show desktop (wheel), select window (thumb).

▪ www.usboverdrive.com sells a universal Mac driver that enables button programming. 
(Evoluent has no business relationship with this vendor.)

▪ USB port.

It's an Evoluent Ergonomic mouse. The current mouse I use at work is extremely sluggish even with full sensitivity, and I want to try and see if my evoluent mouse would work as a substitute. Evoluent says that the USBOverdrive driver will make it work, so I've got faith in them.

It's a bit of a hassle to move my mouse back and forth to work, but I might even just bring in an intellimouse or something and leave it there.

I just want to be able to program the buttons on a higher rez mouse, and ideally an ergonomically designed one that doesn't give me wrist strain. I need a 1,2,3 set of buttons, which the current Mac mouse has, but it's just kinda wierd with how it handles them and it hurts my wrist to use it a full day, which my home mouse doesn't do. This is a non-apple issue though, so it's not their fault, and if I can bring a better mouse I will.

[Praxis]

I usually just plug a Microsoft mouse into my MacBook (we've got a couple around the house, they're cheap, comfy, and USB). Never tried installing a mouse driver as everything I plugged in worked fine...but I've never tried a higher res mouse.

But yeah, usually it's just a package file. You double click on it, enter an admin password, and run the installer.

[jegs2]

They can keep the iPhone. IMO, the best of the smart phones is this one, which my wife has.

[Nephtys]

There's a lot other MP3 players of similar size and shape. And apperance really. I rather like the new minizens.

Tell me what accessories extend iPod functionality? As far as I can tell.

- A bunch of leather pockets you can put it in so it doesn't break
- 20-50% Overpriced brand name white earbuds
- Car tape player that every other MP3, Walkman and CD Player has
- Dock/Charger that's no different than plugging it into an adapter
- The 'iBox' which is a 300 dollar boom box with worse audio quality than a 100 dollar one you drop an ipod into, as opposed to just plugging a headphone adapter into a conventional speaker
- A bunch of stickers.

The only one of those that is not found on other players, for less money... happens to be the stickers. Those don't seem to increase functionality very much...

Funny, first you discount the size and appearance of the iPod, then you go ahead and admit that the competitors are copying from the same. Certainly no other reason other than 'designer label', right?

I don't exactly see the reason why I should be defending every accessory's use, despite their existence. You can handwave their particular use for you all you want, but it's clearly obvious that the iPod's extended family is massive and unmatched by any other vendor.

Note how I said that this other example model is similar in size and appearance? And that there's others around like that? Please, name one practical reason that you'd pay an extra 60 dollars, aside from wanting to own the 'well known' brand? Unless somehow, a few cm thick is going to kill you for this model.

Looking at those accessories, how does that refute my claim? You're throwing a website that list ALLLLL the wonderous accessories available for iPods.. like uh... leather cases? Armbands? Stickers? ipod T-shirts?

I don't see any 'massive increase in functionality' most of these give. The only ones that have a practical use (speakers, cables) I've already addressed.

[Durandal]

I would argue that what is needed is an easy undo instead of a hard to use action. For a web browser, when a tab is closed, the contents should remain cached in memory, so you could open it right back up with ease after closing it with a simple menu option / hotkey.

That's fixing a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place. In any case, on Mac OS X, NSUndoManager makes this more than possible. But you're talking about caching the content of an entire web page in memory for an indeterminate amount of time. Sure, you could time out the action, but you'd have to maintain a separate undo stack, since text fields need their own as well.

Not that this is a terrible burden, but it increases the memory footprint without a clear need.

That way, closing a tab remains easy, and if you close the wrong one, no big deal; just open it right back up.

It's plenty easy to close a tab. Click the close button or press Command-W.

[Pu-239]

Closing a tab is a destructive action. It's all too easy (for me, at least) to accidentally hit the close button in Firefox twice and close a tab that I didn't mean to. So requiring extra cognitive attention to close a tab is reasonable.

I would argue that what is needed is an easy undo instead of a hard to use action. For a web browser, when a tab is closed, the contents should remain cached in memory, so you could open it right back up with ease after closing it with a simple menu option / hotkey.

That way, closing a tab remains easy, and if you close the wrong one, no big deal; just open it right back up.

Firefox does have an undo option- as for closing tab, I just middle click it.