General Order 24

[OmegaGuy]

Tell them that in "Night Terrors", Data says that no known technology can block telepathic transmissions, so shields would be useless against a hypothetical memory - wiping weapon

[Patrick Degan]

Tell them that in "Night Terrors", Data says that no known technology can block telepathic transmissions, so shields would be useless against a hypothetical memory - wiping weapon

Keep in mind that the Sauteraan weapon was electronic, not telepathic. The contact signal had already infiltrated the ship's main computer system even as Worf was raising the shields, and Federation shields are very vulnerable to matching frequency tricks as we've seen all too many times.

[Darth Wong]

Why even overthink it that much? Only a Federation ship under the command of a Frenchman would sit there passively while something is obviously attempting to infiltrate its systems. An Imperial ship would have blown that probe into subatomic particles the instant it tried to do anything suspicious.

It doesn't matter what kind of mind-manipulating technology you have when you are a cloud of expanding gas.

[Darth Ruinus]

I posted up a comparison of the Acclamator and Galaxy Class ship on the original YouTube page, and lo and behold, the Trekkies ignore it!

Fuck! These kids are hopeless, I mean, I put the facts right in front of them and they ignore it!

[MagnusTheReD]

I posted up a comparison of the Acclamator and Galaxy Class ship on the original YouTube page, and lo and behold, the Trekkies ignore it!

I figured out he ran away.
At least I didn't see him post for a whole day.

[General Trelane (Retired)]

Ah, shit! The Trekkie is back, and Trekkier than ever!

ok, I know that in the episode Conundrum where they meet those uh guys with lasers on their ships (the one where they say they wont even pierce the navigational shield or something along those lines) they still order the forward shields to be raised to maximum, but TheRedFear came back with this

"Oh and for whoever mentioned Conundrum a while ago, you might consider actually WATCHING the episode before you try and use it to make a point. If you had, you'd know they were brainwashed into beleiving that despite their vastly inferior laser technology, these Aliens were their mortal enemies, so they took precautions accordingly, based on the assumption they must have SOME kind of weapon that could pose a threat, like a memory-wiping one."

I see a problem with that argument, if they ARE brainwashed, and they still remember that lasers cant pierce the nav shield why would they still raise the shields to maximum?

Also another problem with this argument, is the fact that the Trek ship (I dont know which one, I forget which ship goes to which series since I dont watch Trek) had just scanned the Lysian ships (is that their name?) and they KNEW they were only equipped with lasers and minimal shielding, so how could they possibly fear "SOME kind of weapon that could pose a threat, like a memory-wiping one."

Also a memory-wiping weapon!?!?!?
I dont watch Trek alot, or even at all, just a couple of VOY eps, but, Trek doesnt actually have memory wiping weapons does it? that would be stupid.

As pointed out by Isolder74, the no-lasers claim comes from dialogue in The Outrageous Okona (for an excellent synopsis, see here). If I'm reading the above post correctly, Conundrum was mentioned as an example in which Starfleet officers take lasers seriously enough to raise shields (hence dispelling the notion that navigational deflectors are impervious to any and all lasers). To which TheRedFear inanely responds:

[. . .] they must have SOME kind of weapon that could pose a threat, like a memory-wiping one.

The obvious rejoinder is. . ."or a laser of sufficient power to threaten their shields."

Really, the no-lasers Trekkie wank has been debunked ad infinitum, but they still spout it like an orgasmic mantra. So let's look back at The Outrageous Okona (interestingly, it seems that the final draft had phasers rather than lasers, but that's clearly not what made it into the final cut--no, I don't know the reliability of that link).

In any case, it is clear that the lasers-can't-penetrate-our-navigational-shields statement must be kept in context or it is useless (this applies to all dialogue). And the context makes it clear that Debin's ship is of lower technology and is much smaller than the Enterprise. Therefore, the most logical conclusion is that Picard and Co. surmised that the ship couldn't possibly generate sufficient power to threaten even the navigational shields (instead, had that ship carried something like high-yield nukes, which don't depend on the carrying-ship's power generation for yield, Picard might have been more concerned). The fact that the weapons were lasers is irrelevant--Debin's ship simply couldn't generate enough power to be a credible threat. The Trek-whore conclusion that all lasers are impotent against SF navigational shields causes far too many conflicts with canon to be credible.

Going on to Conundrum, what the other ship may or may not have is irrelevant--the Enterprise crew treats it as a threat until their analysis reveals that it's no match for them. Again, the context shows that the other ship simply cannot deliver enough power to be a threat (this is a central plot point since it causes the crew to doubt their mission); concluding anything more than this is Trek wank.

[MagnusTheReD]

Oh, great! Just when you think it's over, that the retard have retreated - here he is again!
I really dislike this guy....
He now claims that SW shields don't block transporter!
Can you guys show me where is this nice page Mr. Poe assembled - the complete list of things that block transporters?
I don't seem to find it - I wanted to throw it in his ugly face!

[Darth Ruinus]

wait your not in that debate too are you?
oh page is
http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/shiel ... ml#Schisms

[Ritterin Sophia]

Can I have link? I'd have an easier understanding of what he said if I could see for myself.

[MagnusTheReD]

wait your not in that debate too are you?
oh page is
http://www.mrpoesmorgue.com/usvsd/shiel ... ml#Schisms

Well, yes, in fact I am. I'm Zyamaman if you wondered.
And thanks for the link, man, been looking for it everywhere!

Can I have link? I'd have an easier understanding of what he said if I could see for myself.

It's the same debate Darth Ruinus initiated.
Here's the link, but it's such a horrible mess I doubt you'll be able to figure out anything!
YouTube comment page is not the best place to conduct debates....

BTW, here's an idea:
From ST: Nemesis we know that ionic particles block transporters, right?

[MagnusTheReD]

Well, that's it, I publicly challenged him for a debate on a real forum.
Because I had enough of scanning the two-miles-long comment page on YouTube for his retarded posts.
And I suggest you, Darth Ruinus, to do the same.
We'll see if he have the guts to answer the challenge.

[Darth Ruinus]

this guy just doesnt give up...

[Darth Ruinus]

oh by the way he said that the description for a BDZ requires there to be a fleet, and he uses the example of the BDZ on Dankayo, i said using Dankayo is a bad idea since they had no heavy warships, but he seems to ignore this, saying Dankayo was just a small moon, any one got more info on Dankayo?

[Darth Ruinus]

also, what is this argument talking about?

DS9: By Inferno's Light - "A Changeling has rigged the runabout Yukon with trilithium, tekasite, and protomatter, which if detonated inside the Bajoran sun, would induce a supernova, destroying Bajor, DS9, and the Klingon fleet in one fell swoop."

Any way to refute this? I was thinking how many planets are in that star system, since if it only takes out one planet out of a star system, it doesnt compare to the sun crusher

[Darth Wong]

oh by the way he said that the description for a BDZ requires there to be a fleet, and he uses the example of the BDZ on Dankayo, i said using Dankayo is a bad idea since they had no heavy warships, but he seems to ignore this, saying Dankayo was just a small moon, any one got more info on Dankayo?

I believe it was 3 ships. That's not much of a fleet. Also, Camaas was left so devastated that it would be easier to terraform a barren planet than to restore Camaas.

[Darth Servo]

also, what is this argument talking about?

DS9: By Inferno's Light - "A Changeling has rigged the runabout Yukon with trilithium, tekasite, and protomatter, which if detonated inside the Bajoran sun, would induce a supernova, destroying Bajor, DS9, and the Klingon fleet in one fell swoop."

Any way to refute this? I was thinking how many planets are in that star system, since if it only takes out one planet out of a star system, it doesnt compare to the sun crusher

Sure. Last time I checked, main sequence stars don't go supernova. Its a contradiction in terms. And therefore the people in the episode don't know what they're talking about.

[Darth Wong]

also, what is this argument talking about?

DS9: By Inferno's Light - "A Changeling has rigged the runabout Yukon with trilithium, tekasite, and protomatter, which if detonated inside the Bajoran sun, would induce a supernova, destroying Bajor, DS9, and the Klingon fleet in one fell swoop."

Any way to refute this? I was thinking how many planets are in that star system, since if it only takes out one planet out of a star system, it doesnt compare to the sun crusher

It can't be a supernova by definition, since only a supermassive star can produce a supernova. Once again, Star Trek gets its terminology wrong. It can produce a nova, but one thing most people don't realize is that a nova is just a giant solar flare. The star isn't actually exploding; it's just throwing off a lot of gas from its outer layers. In fact, a well-shielded ship could probably survive a nova, and the actual intensity at the point of impact would be much less than a direct hit with a nuclear weapon.

[Darth Ruinus]

hahaha, that made me laugh, seeing as how soo many people on the youtube page are saying Star Trek has few scientific fallacies in it!

[Darth Ruinus]

Oh, wait since this Trekkie wont take any thing unless it is stated, how are you sure it is a main sequence star? Is it stated in the episode or something? Thanks for the info.

[Darth Servo]

hahaha, that made me laugh, seeing as how soo many people on the youtube page are saying Star Trek has few scientific fallacies in it!

Lots of trektards say that. They tend to be a bunch of ignorant kiddies who never even set foot in a real physics class.

[Darth Servo]

Oh, wait since this Trekkie wont take any thing unless it is stated, how are you sure it is a main sequence star? Is it stated in the episode or something? Thanks for the info.

We've seen the star enough times to know its a yellow star like our own. IIRC, super massive stars of the size that can go supernova aren't yellow.

[OmegaGuy]

Didn't the sun crusher destroy several main sequence stars as well?

[Ritterin Sophia]

Didn't the sun crusher destroy several main sequence stars as well?

I think the difference here, is that we read about the Sun Crusher doing it, in Trek, they just say they're going to do it, no instances show it having been done.

[Darth Servo]

hahaha, that made me laugh, seeing as how soo many people on the youtube page are saying Star Trek has few scientific fallacies in it!

Thats when you tell them that the morons in Trek can't even get basic units right.

[Wyrm]

Oh, wait since this Trekkie wont take any thing unless it is stated, how are you sure it is a main sequence star? Is it stated in the episode or something? Thanks for the info.

Servo is right. There are no yellow supergiants. They're either big and bloated like Betelgeuse, or more compact and blue like Sandulek.

But there's a further reason to suspect the Bajoran sun is not a supergiant. The Bajorans presumably evolved on Bajor. This means that their sun had to have survived at least long enough for the Bajorans to evolve from the first primitive life forms to the full fledge Bajorans.

Now, consider: although it is an offense against evolution as we know it, The Chase does establish that basically all humanoid life in the Milky Way has a common origin (much like the yeast of Nivan's Known Space gives all life in the galaxy a common biochemical base, only Nivan did it right). Bajorans are one of these humanoid life forms, and this happened about 4 billion years ago. This means the Bajoran sun has been burning for about 4 billion years.

The sun is predicted to have a lifespan of about 10 billion years, so the fact that the Bajoran sun is still burning indicates that it is no heavier than 1.35 solar masses (lifetime is proportional to the inverse cubed of the star's mass; a star twice as heavy as the sun lasts only about 2 billion years). If I recall correctly, supergiants begin at about 10 solar masses, so Bajor is no supergiant.