Gaunts Ghosts 1 - First and Only Analysis and Discussion

[Imperial Overlord]

I think it was either Black Admiral or NecronLord who found that reference. Remember that there is no single "Cobra" design

Well, there is a single Cobra design, which probably gets heavily modded depending on the shipyard its built at, but there are many many designs of escort.

There can't be a single design, not for a ship that can vary from .6 to 1.5 km in length. There is, at best, a design based on an STC knockoff that various different shipyards attempt to follow and build craft which have capabilities that match the idealized Cobra as closely as possible. A family of designs that produce fast and agile torpedo boats would probably be the best way of putting it.

[Teleros]

A family of designs that produce fast and agile torpedo boats would probably be the best way of putting it.

Just look at the different models of SM tanks in the IA books for evidence of this. The older rhino & land raider designs look very different to the newer ones for example (although not as much of a difference between a 600m and 1500m Cobra).

[white_rabbit]

A family of designs that produce fast and agile torpedo boats would probably be the best way of putting it.

Just look at the different models of SM tanks in the IA books for evidence of this. The older rhino & land raider designs look very different to the newer ones for example (although not as much of a difference between a 600m and 1500m Cobra).

Have you seen the oldest version of a landraider ?

That might make you reconsider that last statement!

There can't be a single design, not for a ship that can vary from .6 to 1.5 km in length

indeed, thats why one of them is the "Cobra" of Battlefleet Gothic, and its derivatives versions, and the others are other small escort designs

Hell, theres some sort of light strike fighter called a "cobra".

[Teleros]

[quote="white_rabbit"]Have you seen the oldest version of a landraider ?

That might make you reconsider that last statement![quote]
Yes, which is why I said that. Of course it's similar, but compare their lengths for example, or design of the sponsons. That was the point I was trying to make - it's another example of multiple designs falling under the same name.

[Connor MacLeod]

There can't be a single design, not for a ship that can vary from .6 to 1.5 km in length

indeed, thats why one of them is the "Cobra" of Battlefleet Gothic, and its derivatives versions, and the others are other small escort designs

Hell, theres some sort of light strike fighter called a "cobra".

Well if you look at the Inquisition war novel Harlequin and Eye of Terror, both of which feature the fleet organization from Space Fleet, you have Gothic class battleships as well as firestorms, Tyrants, Dominators, and the sublight Cobras and Dictators (The gothics and Cobras show up at least, and I think the Tyrants and firestorms at least show up..) I believe the Factory ships get mentioned in the Warriors of Ultramar novel too.

there's also, IIRC, the "Gothic class battlecruiser" from the "610 gT torpedo" quote.

[Connor MacLeod]

There can't be a single design, not for a ship that can vary from .6 to 1.5 km in length. There is, at best, a design based on an STC knockoff that various different shipyards attempt to follow and build craft which have capabilities that match the idealized Cobra as closely as possible. A family of designs that produce fast and agile torpedo boats would probably be the best way of putting it.

IIRC 40K has a history of salvaging and repairing/modifying ships to other purposes or even converting them to another class. While 600 meters to 1 km is probably an "extreme" conversion. IF you think about it, the "armored prows" on most 40K ships represent a not-insignfiicant portion of their overall length/width, and thats a modification. On smaller ships like escrots, the prow section tends to be a BIG portion of their length.

On that same token, differences in engine types or designs (thrust tubes, etc.) can also probably alter length as well, since engines tend to be an even bigger "propotion" of a ship's dimensions.

A better way to look at it (and I think what White_rabbit is getting at) is that your "standard" Cobra might be around a kilometer long, whereas the "modified" versions represent the far ends of the extremes (~600 meters and ~1.5 km), which only works out to a difference in length from the "standarD" of around 400-500 meters - differences not irreconcilable with differences in engines and/or prows. For example, perhaps the 600 meter long Cobra is the "sub-light" warships we know from the soruces I mentioned earlier.

Edit: Additionally, doesn't the Imperium make a big deal out of salvaging and reparing dead spaceship hulks they come across or recover from battles? (Assuming the ship doesn't blow up spectacularly) - patching up those designs for use could very well lead to differences in dimensions. I'd imagine some Cobras could be as salvagable as bigger capital ships.

[Connor MacLeod]

I always rationalised the tremendous ROF as a setup similar to Vulcan mega-bolters.

One pattern is essentially a multi-barrelled chaingun style, the other other pattern looks like a stormbolter with mini-chainguns instead of bolters.

Do we know the ROF on those mega-bolters? That could be, the likely explanation seems to be that this is *probably* a chaingun (some autocannons are a sort of gatling gun anyhow, IIRC.)

As for 40k fighters mounting Titan weaponry, the Souldrinkers book describes various patterns of less popular fighter with Mega-bolters, plasma blast guns etc etc.

Remember which novel or page number? I have the omniibus now so I can check up on that.

Generally i was just going a bit by size. In reality most fighters (IE furies and starhawks) are probably closer to superheavies than titans(which do use titan killing weapons, ) but the Faustus and vessels like it probably are big enough (and massive enough) to mount titan-grade weapons.

As a side note, 13th Legion mentions that the anti-fighter/point defense weapons on a cruiser are bigger (and presumably more powerful) than titan weapons, which would substantiate the notion.

The black templars and other so inclined chapters also have Thunderhawk patterns which replace transport capability and dorsal weaponry with a huge fuck off laser cannon for use against enemy superheavies.

Aren't those the Thunderhawk annihilators that some chapters use? I just remembered I think that they're supposed to be equivlaent in firepower ot bombers or battle titans, so again that would tend to bear out the idea.

Ad-mech VIP shuttles have multiple turbolasers apparently as well.

How big are teh shuttles though, and bearing in mind that the AdMech, as a rule, tend to have better EVERYTHING than everyone else in the Imperium WRT technology, for the most part.

[Connor MacLeod]

40K small craft are only small by capital ships standards. Yes, turbo lasers are Titan weapons, but they are mounted in clusters in the shoulder mounts of a Warlord class Titan. The whole arm of a Revenant (Eldar main battle Titan) is a pulsar lance, two of them and fly a flier would have be well, titanic. That was the point I was trying to get across.

Well, look at what WR and I just mentioned, it does seem like a rather plausible idea. That would I believe put 40K fighter weapons in the mid to high Kt/low megaton range (disregarding the big heavy antiship missils.)

Not as rapid fire weapons firing mid sized shells, but as big, slow firing and very scary cannons. But I get your point.

From what I gathered about the early 40K stuff (rogue Trader) autocannons were meant to be the equivlaent of MBT cannons in terms of size/power (just automic firing). Hell, you can pretty much see this I believe in the Predator tanks (which some sources stil list as IG issue, as they were in early editions.)

I think it was either Black Admiral or NecronLord who found that reference. Remember that there is no single "Cobra" design, each shipyard builds there own pattern ship. Most references for the Cobra hold it at about 1km, but the 600meters and 1.5km are outliers. I'll see if I can dig it up.

What "most references" about the Cobra? The only references I am aware of were the "merzo.net" starship scales site listing it as 1.5 km. I was aware Orsai had noted 600 meter ships (IIRC somebody somewhere mentioned a White Dwarf article for one of the sizes) but I've never seen any real quotes.

IIRC ORsai mentioned to me once that the Cobra got retconned to the higher size, so the 600 meter figure might have been thrown out (well we don't HAVE to throw it out, if its published soemwhere, but its nice to know what the standing is.)

[Imperial Overlord]

Edit: Additionally, doesn't the Imperium make a big deal out of salvaging and reparing dead spaceship hulks they come across or recover from battles? (Assuming the ship doesn't blow up spectacularly) - patching up those designs for use could very well lead to differences in dimensions. I'd imagine some Cobras could be as salvagable as bigger capital ships.

Yes, they do.

[Falkenhayn]

The rate of fire sounds crazy, but I think we can explain it through targetting technology and processes. The mounts know a bearing and a speed for their target, and roughly its size. They also know the damage potential of their shots and range.

Creating a series of shell "clouds" that cross the current course and some of the likely deviations looks like the best chance of scoring hits. Especially when time to target is considerable (apparently in the 10's of seconds at longer ranges). The faster more "clouds" can be produced, the higher the kill probability, and so the insane RoF.

[Lost Soal]

Is it deffinately just a single Autocannon? If their are multiple it could be attributed to a combined RoF from several guns.

[white_rabbit]

Yes, which is why I said that. Of course it's similar, but compare their lengths for example, or design of the sponsons. That was the point I was trying to make - it's another example of multiple designs falling under the same name.

Hilariously, the Heresy books have got an image of one of the first gen Land Raiders in use.

That marine looking out the hatch must have felt like a complete retard.

Well if you look at the Inquisition war novel Harlequin and Eye of Terror, both of which feature the fleet organization from Space Fleet, you have Gothic class battleships as well as firestorms, Tyrants, Dominators, and the sublight Cobras and Dictators (The gothics and Cobras show up at least, and I think the Tyrants and firestorms at least show up..) I believe the Factory ships get mentioned in the Warriors of Ultramar novel too.

If you read a little further on in the first Soul Drinker book, it mentions a factory ship as one possible way to extract the Soul Drinkers from one of those staples of sci-fi, a dense and active asteroid field.

there's also, IIRC, the "Gothic class battlecruiser" from the "610 gT torpedo" quote.

We know there is a certain degree of how shall I put it ? informality as far as designating ship classes goes in 40k fiction.

For example, an Emperor class has been refered to as a "superheavy battlecruiser", as opposed to a battleship.

Do we know the ROF on those mega-bolters? That could be, the likely explanation seems to be that this is *probably* a chaingun (some autocannons are a sort of gatling gun anyhow, IIRC.)

Its never really given, I doubt that its actually a vulcan megabolter, but as an example of multi-barrelled "heavy bolters" or "very heavy bolters" whic h have been mentioned, I think its more likely than a single barrelled Doom Bolter.

Remember which novel or page number? I have the omniibus now so I can check up on that.

The very first model, just after the Teleport attack by the Ad-mech.

As a side note, 13th Legion mentions that the anti-fighter/point defense weapons on a cruiser are bigger (and presumably more powerful) than titan weapons, which would substantiate the notion.

Yeah, the big-ass "turrets" described in BFG are hugetactular, it puts things into perspective a little.

Obviously theres the slightly smaller Last Chance grid as well.

Aren't those the Thunderhawk annihilators that some chapters use? I just remembered I think that they're supposed to be equivlaent in firepower ot bombers or battle titans, so again that would tend to bear out the idea.

Their doctrinal use is as an anti-superheavy platform, so they've at least got to be in the ballpark of such asskickery.

How big are teh shuttles though, and bearing in mind that the AdMech, as a rule, tend to have better EVERYTHING than everyone else in the Imperium WRT technology, for the most part.

Its a pretty large shuttle, enough to get a contingent of Stormies and GK's on.

Its also possible that "turbolaser" refers to just some heavy laser weapons, not the rather large titan mounted versions.

Lest we forget that Dictatio's turbolaser array is distinctly larger than that of a Thunderhawks.

[white_rabbit]

Is it deffinately just a single Autocannon? If their are multiple it could be attributed to a combined RoF from several guns.

If we go with the Mk 2/Lucius pattern megabolter style, its probably a cluster of chainguns.

[Connor MacLeod]

Okay, sorry for the delay, back with some more stuff. This time we get into some mega-level calcfests for hand weapons, including "vaporizing" bolter rounds, the beginning of the cauterization calcs, and just how nasty 40K artillery can be.

Page 22

- again, psyker activity seems to be followed by a sudden and noticable drop in temperature. This actually tends to be a common feature of many Abnett novels (particularily Eisenhorn and Ravenor, and the formation of frost.) The exact reason for this is never actually stated, although it may be that a psyker needs to draw energy from his surroundings in order to "tap" the Warp, thus acting as a catalyst. Or, there may be other reasons for it.

Page 29

He [Gaunt] hasn't slept at all," Milo replied. "He's been up through he night reviewing reconnaissance transmissions frorm the orbital watch."

- Mention of orbital watch - presumably warships or fixed stations (probably the former) providing overhead recon information to forces on the ground (whether directly to the individual officers, or whether it gets disseminated through some higher up authority, like a Lord General.) This isn't the first time it has ever been mentioned (other mentions occur such as Caves of Ice, for example.)

Page 31

A shell whinnied down low across his position and dug a hole the size of a drop-ship behind the rear breatwork of the trench.

We don't know for *sure* just how big a drop ship is, but I do recall they are generally larger than fighters and can carry hundreds or thousands of troops (or tanks, or whatnot) So this probably argues that the shell craters are at least 50 meters in diameter, and probably in excess of 80-100 meters (as large as or larger than Eisenhorn's gun-cutter.) In terms of yield, this is comparable to at LEAST many tens or hundreds of tons of TNT, possibly low kiloton range (depending on dropship size.)

page 33

The crack of lasguns and needle lasers began to whip around them from the armoured loopholes on the trench head.

- lasguns and "needle lasers" (IE the long-las sniper rifles) would be implied to be visually distinct here (given the thinner, ,longer barrels and the "tighter accuracy" mentioned in the Uplifting primer, its quite likely the needle laser beams are much narrower than the standard lasgun beam.)

Page 33

There was a sizzling thicket of las-fire a hundred paces deep and twenty kilometres long where the advancing legions of the enemy met the Imperial Guard regiments head on.

A hundred "paces" (bearing in mind the discussion already about "pace" definition with regards to the Naval interceptor) implies a range between 75-150 meters. I'm betting on the latter one. Not an upper limit (if anynthing, this is probably "point blank range" as far as lasguns go.

Page 39

- an IG trooper is dead here, his face "cauterised" by lasfire. Its hard to say for sure just how MUCH of his head was cauterized (enough so his brain was taken down), but assuming a symmetrical effect equal in diameter to the width/height of the face (~20 cm) it probably affected more than half the head. Cauterizing and boiling several kg of the head would require around 1.8-2.7 megajoules per shot, assuming a cauterization temp of around 300 degrees C. If the temp is higher, the calcs will, of course, ,be higher.

Page 41

Varl was hit and his shoulder vanished in a puff of red mist. He went down hard on his backside and then flopped ove rclutching with the arm that would still work.

- hit by lasfire. On page 42 the wound had to be "bound", and the mention of "vanish" and the "red mist" implies vaporization (which we know can occur.) But this is not definite. The wound was at LEAST cauterized, however. This probably means cauterizing at least several kg of flesh (if not vaporizing it). Cauterization would imply here (like with the face-cauterising) several megajoules easily (call it 2-4 MJ for around 2-4 kg of human flesh affected.) Vaporization if any would increase the yield substantially - even if only a few kg of vaporization occured you are looking at 5-7 megajoules easily.)

Page 42

Gaunt raised his bolt-pistol and blew the masked head into vapour.

- bolt from Gaunt's bolt pistol vaporizes the head of an enemy trooper. Ignoring for a second vaporizing the mask or helmet (which IIRC are metal and probably weighed around 1-2 kilos easily.). Head vaporization would require around 10-12.5 megajoules (4-5 kg mass) at least. I think its safe to say that, using comparable ammo (not all bolt rounds vaporize), a bolt gun (especially those used by the Astartes) would be significantly more powerful.

Page 45

That was the moment the bombardment started. Caffran found himself flying, lifted by a wall of air issued from a bomb blast that created a crater twelve metres wide. A huge slew of mud was thrown up in the sky with him.
...

As far as he knew, Neff, Major Rawne, ,Fegyor, LArkin, Lonegin, all the rest ,were dead and vapourised.

A 12 meter diameter crater implies a shell of around .3 tons in yield (at least.) The shell is implied to have vaporized the rest of Caffran's squad (9 other troopers total, but at leasst 6 other troops) Vaporizing 6-9 other huhmans, assuming an average mass of 80 kilos. This would imply a yield of at least a quarter ton of TNT to half a ton.


Page 46

The electro-magnetic aftershock of the ceaseless barrage was scrambling their communications, both the microbead intercoms that all the officers war and the long-range vox-caster radio sets.

- The bombardment is having EMP effects that are screwing with the comms. The presence of EMP implies either electromagnetic weapons are being used (non nuclear EMP, such as haywire grenades, perhaps.) or that nuclear (or nuclear-like devices, like melta bombs) are being employed.

[Stormbringer]

Page 46

The electro-magnetic aftershock of the ceaseless barrage was scrambling their communications, both the microbead intercoms that all the officers war and the long-range vox-caster radio sets.

- The bombardment is having EMP effects that are screwing with the comms. The presence of EMP implies either electromagnetic weapons are being used (non nuclear EMP, such as haywire grenades, perhaps.) or that nuclear (or nuclear-like devices, like melta bombs) are being employed.

It's probably plasma warheads that are causing the EMP effects. Those are definitely mounted on various ballastic and orbital missles; it's very likely that heavy field peices carry them as warheads as well.

[Imperial Overlord]

It's probably plasma warheads that are causing the EMP effects. Those are definitely mounted on various ballastic and orbital missles; it's very likely that heavy field peices carry them as warheads as well.

They do in older material, although they are rare.

[Connor MacLeod]

Next round:

Page 47
- Corbec uses his laspistol to blow metal idols made by Chaos forcecs into fragments (vaguely shrapnel-like, given one such fragment strikes one of his own troopers. If we knew the mass or size of the statues we could possibly derive a yield here, but absent it anything I could make would be pure guesstimate. It IS worth noting though that in this case las weapons are exhibiting significant "explosive/blast" effects (IE shrapnel.) Which we can contrast with other instances (IE making a neat hole in someone's head or cauterizing/incinerating the brains without blowing said head completely apart.)

Page 48

- another shell evidently crates a 30-metre wide diameter crater. Using the SDN asteroid destruction calculator, the cratering energy for a crater of that diameter would be at least 5 tons of TNT (hard granite). Half fragmentation would be around 13-14 tons.

Page 49

He could not bring himself to incinerate the soldier, as he had done with the shrines/

- This quote puzzled me for some time. What happens is that Corbec and his men run across one of the scouts he had earlier dispatched to locate the enemy, and the man had been tortured/mutilated and hung up dead. When I first read this, I thought back to the idols Corbec wiped out with his laspistol (Page 47 above) and imagined the quote was describing Corbec using his las-pistol to incinerate the entire corpse. (Which would take hundreds or thousands of megajules worth of energy to achieve.) Needless to say, this would lead to some very high (if not insane) las-weapon calcs, even assuming he uses up every single laspack to do it.

When I re-read the scene, I realized that Corbec was not directly talking about destroyign the body. The pages prior describe running across Chaos shrines that he orders his flame trooper to destroy. In this context, it means that Corbec has the flamer-equipped Tanith trooper incinerate the corpse. Which means that a IG flamer is capable of putting out hundreds or thousands of megajoules worth of energy (no idea of timeframe in this instance.) This interpretation makes more sense, of course, and fits with the later descriptions of flamers.

Page 52

- The Viitrians are noted to be dressed in "some kind of chain-armour"

Page 52

Their unusual body armour was made frorm a toothed metallic-mail which covered them in form-fitting sections. It glinted like Obsidian. Their helmets were full-face and grim with narrow eye slits, glazed with dark glass.

Vitrian Dragoon body armor (mesh armor?) is a sort of form-fitting scale or mail armor, with full-faced body helmets (including eyeslits with lenses) Given their description and the kind of armor they wear, I'm guessing they're heavy infantry (or close to it), like the Jantine in this novel and (later) the Volpone.

Page 52

-One of hte Ghosts (and a Dragoon) hide in a crater large enough for both of them easily. This implies a crater at least several meters across and a meter deep. (weapon that causes it is unknown) Not exactly "tons" of TNT, but its worth several tens of kilograms (but we dont know what made it anyhow.)

Page 54

- the Jantine Patricians Regiment lead by Colonel Flense is a motorised regiment with 10,000 troops ( it is posible it is 2 5,000 man regiments, but it seems to imply that it is a single regiment.) Not ethat Certain sources (mainly early game ones like Codex Imperialis or Rogue Trader, but some later as well as Tactica Imperialis and Execution Hour) implies that the Guard Regiments were of fixed size/scale (around 2-6,000 troops usually.) Abnett, as we know (and someone pointed out in the EH debate) has mentioned/created far larger regiments (Gudrun rifles). This may seem arbitrary, but it seems to be derived heavily from the 2nd edition Guard Codex (Abnett seems to like to draw on earlier sources for his inspirations, I've noticed.) The 2nd edition codex clarifies there IS no fixed size for a Regiment (it can vary depending on the world doing the recruiting.) and can be as few as a "few hundred" men to "hundreds of thousands" (like the Gudrunites.) It also mentions that planets with very large populations (IE Hive Cities) can contribute regiments so large they are armies in their own right (tens or hundreds of thousands of troops, in other words.) The 3rd edition rules fluff likewise seems to imply that Guard Regiments can number tens of thousands of troops, as well.

Page 54

- it's suggested here that the damage above from bombardment is from macro-shell artillery. Macro-cannons, in other words (big ass artillery.. macro cannons can be found on starships in weapons batteries, for example. Titans probably mount them too.) Of course, not ALL the weapons are neccesarily the same scale or type of munition, since the damage does vary.

My guess would be that the "macro cannon" artillery is what is causing the aforementioned EMP effectS (and probably hints at nuclear-scale energies or near-nuclear. Triple digit ton to low kiloton) This of course doesn't rule out bombardment frrom smaller platforms (like Earthshakers) of course.

Page 58

- Mention of life-prolonging "suspension fields" used to preserve the life of a poison victim for eight days (Although the implication is the person is also abnormally tough.) This could (and probably is) a variation of stasis technology.

Page 59

- Oktar is mentioend here as a "commissar-general", so evidently the dual-rank thing is not reserved for merely "commissar-colonels."

[Teleros]

Needless to say, this would lead to some very high (if not insane) las-weapon calcs, even assuming he uses up every single laspack to do it.

Is it not possible he could use the laspistol to simply set fire to part of the corpse, then let it spread? I'm sure some of the clothing worn is flammable for example.

[Stormbringer]

This may seem arbitrary, but it seems to be derived heavily from the 2nd edition Guard Codex (Abnett seems to like to draw on earlier sources for his inspirations, I've noticed.)

Actually, it's simply that he started writing (and playing?) under the previous editions. He began writing the shorts that coalesced into Guant's Ghosts at the very start of third edition, when such fluff was still current, and for continuity's sake has not changed it too drastically. I think it's a matter of him being one of the Old Guard at the Black Library, really the only these days, and he's more familiar with older material. Though some of it probably is also a desire to explore different areas of fluff, including some long left idle.

[Connor MacLeod]

Needless to say, this would lead to some very high (if not insane) las-weapon calcs, even assuming he uses up every single laspack to do it.

Is it not possible he could use the laspistol to simply set fire to part of the corpse, then let it spread? I'm sure some of the clothing worn is flammable for example.

I don't think you'd want to give your soldiers flammable clothing, expecially given the prevalance of flame weapons in 40K (flame retardant materials would make sense. They do view their troops as cannon fodder, but they DO give them thermally resistant body armor..)

In any case, its not really all that easy to set a human body on fire. The body (fats and such) CAN contribute energy to the process (the so called "wick effect") but in order to actually make the body combust, you have to remove the water content - and as I've said numerous times before, the body is MOSTLY water (70% as an average.)

In short, you'd need to expend ~100 megajoules or so simply to get rid of that before setting the rest of it on fire (and its alot harder to do with a las weapon than with an incinerator, or even a flamethrower.)

The only possibility would be that the guy was carrying sufficient incendiaries of his own (like the flamer operator Jurgen toasted in Caves of Ice.)

In any case, the flamer officer along with Corbec torching the corpses is the liklier answer, especially since we know flamers can do that already.

[Connor MacLeod]

I'll get back to the fleet calcs in a day or so if I can. I wnated to keep up on First and Only. (I'm starting to backlog quite a few books for analysis!)

Page 63

Skulane's head exploded. He dropped like a sack of vegetables onto the ground...

- One of the Tanith troopers is killed by Chaos fire. The weapon (here) isn't specified, but mentioned later (thus I'll simply note this and do the calcs later on.)


Page 64

- three troopers are incinerated by the headless trooper's flamer. This tends to suggest at least low high MJ/low GJ range output (depending on efficiency and other variables) for flamers, given that cremating a person is a very energy-intensive experience (as plasma weapons demonstrate.)

It should also note that this tends to suggest promethium (the main fuel used in flamers, IIRC) has a VERY high energy density. Assuming a flamer carries ~30 kilos of fuel (I'm being generous here, flamethrowers carried ALOT less IIRC) and we assume it used up all that in burning those three men (which it didn't.) and that it took around 500 MJ to cremate each person (conservative, I doubt flamethrowers are very efficient) it takes at least 1.5 gigajoules. Which comes out to around ~50 MJ per kg of fuel. This could be VERY conservative. Cremation, I've noticed, ,seems to require LOTS of energy (as high as 1-3 GJ per body, depending on source.) As I said I'm dramatically under-stating the figure here. The energy density could be, therefore, many times higher (at or greater than Hydrogen seems quite likely.)

Page 64

Skulane had been hit from behind by a las-blast to the head

This implies the weapon doing the effects. It shoudl be note that lasguns and "long-las" are described differently for the most part (long-las, sniper rifles have narrower" needle" beams, ,and genrally a different pitch. Also, no mention or observation fo sniper weapons among the Chaos troops is observed) It is probably SAFE to assume its a standard lasgun and not a "hotshot" weapon, but this is not definitive.

Going by my already-done Lasgun analysis for cauterization (and, of course, assuming it occurs, which is likely): A human head (as we know from prior 40K threadS) weighs some 4-5 kg (ignoring the neck) Assuming a 300 C cremation temperature, the energy input needed is between 3.7 and 4.6 megajoules.

Page 65

As others scrambled to get out of his way, he turned his gun to full auto and blazed at them, killing five more, six, seven.

Full auto. Also implies a ROF of at least around 240 rpm, but again, not definite.

Page 66

a 4 metre tall skeletal demon, born of the metal fragment of chaos-imbued idol Corbec had destroyed earlier (and had infected one of his troops) grows out of the ground. Evidently, its made of metal ("welded from tarnished sections of steel") - we can infer that the demon probably constructed itself out of metal debris lying around the area (or just sucked up from the ground, or mindfucked the Tanith while assembling itself form nearby materials.)

Assuming the "skeleton" retains proportions roughly comparable to that of a bipedal human, the difference in mass due to the increased dimensions should be around 8-10x (assuming a 1.8-2 meter tall human - a bit shorter could fudge the calcs a bit higher.)

According to this site:

Broadly speaking, in a healthy woman of average weight, fat tissue makes up 27 percent of total body weight, muscle tissue about 35 percent and skeleton about 12 percent. In a man of average weight, the approximate percentages are 15 percent fat, 45 percent muscle, 15 percent skeleton. The remaining 25 percent or so, in both cases, is composed of skin, blood plasma, connective tissue, tendons, organs, hair and so on.

and

The skeleton typically accounts for quite a small amount of total body weight. For instance, bone weight in a female of 160 pounds is about 19.2 pounds, while a male who weighs 200 pounds has only about 30 pounds of weight in his bones. Thus although weight does vary somewhat according to bone size or bone density, we can't really claim that our bones make us overweight!

This means that roughly 15% of body mass is composed of bone for a huhman male. wikiepdia gives 20%, but for the sake of simplicity I'll go with the lower figure (the difference is not extreme.) Therefore, assuming an 80 kg man, his bones will weigh ~12 kg (or 16 kg, if you go with the 20% figure.)

Assuming a density of iron, the skeleton ought ot weigh at least 800-1000 kg. It could be higher due to differences in metal density (something like tungsten would be several times denser), bulkier "bones" (another possibility) or distorted dimensions. The results, however, probably won't vary by more than an order of magnitude, at most.

Page 67

Seargent Grell was right behind with a dozen men that he had roused out of their panic with oathing taunts. They stood around the lip of the culvert and fired their lasguns down at the twitching skeleton, in a few moments, the sculptural, metallic form of the beast was reduced to shrapnel and slag.

- thirteen men firing lasguns for "a few moments" (seconds?) reduce the aformentioned metal skeleton to "slag" (IE molten.) Assuming the 1 ton mass above, and the properties of iron, it ought to require at least 1.2 GJ to melt.

There are two ways to work this out. Assuming 40 shots per pack per Ghost, and assuming they used up the entire pack (which is doubtful), this means 500 shots to melt the skeleton. This results in a "per shot" yield of about 2.3 megajoules per shot.

The other way is "per second". Assuming 2-3 seconds from 13 lasguns, the sustained output of each lasgun would be around 31-46 megawatts.

Either way, both calcs are conservative due to inefficiencies, setting, and whatnot.


Page 68

- the heavy artillery batteries bombarding the Ghosts here (big, heavy macro cannons evidedntly) are well protected (impervious to even orbital bombardment.) Do note, however, that on page 36, Dravere reflects that the factories on the planet make it too valuable to flatten via orbital bombardment, so they clearly are holding back on just how much firepower they bring to bear. And since we don't know the nature of the defenses (which could include void shields) its hard to say anything about how much firepower this is.

[Connor MacLeod]

well I've left this sitting long enough. time for a small update.

Page 69

- again mention of the "electro-magnetic and radio interference" created by the bombardment is disrupting communications. Either haywire grenades (possible) or small nukes (or nuke-like, ie melta bombs) are being used. Given the latter mention of some of the size of the artillery shells I am not ruling out nuclear (particularily given what the zoicans bring out in Necropolis

- Gaunt forbids the use of fire or stoves in case enemy range-finders are using infrared detection. Evidently, however, ,he's not concerned about the Ghosts being detected by similar means - presumably their cameoline cloaks provide some sort of infrared protecton, or they have some sort of camo paint or funky stuff that helps mask them from sensors.

Page 70

- Ghost and Vitrian lasguns have at least two settings: "half charge" and "maximum charge". I'm betting on more, though.


Page 70

He wondered himself if this clinical attitude, as clear and sharp-edged as the famous glass-filament armour they wore might perhaps be lacking in the essential fire and soul that made a truly great fighting unit.

- Here the Viitrian armour is identified as being a kind of "Mesh" armour. This would suggest its not just ablative, but that its designed to spread out/conduct the energy of the armor away from the impact point and spread it over a wider area. It may also imply that its designed to go "rigid
" under kinetic impacts, but this would be unliekly with the "mica" component, and the other layer is only thermal insulation.


Page 71

Camo claoks were pulled in tight and the Ghosts divided into small units of around a dozen men, each containing at least one heavy weapons trooper.

...

Gaunt observed the preparations of the Vitrians. They were drilled into larger fighting units of about twenty men each, and had fewer heavy weapons. Where heavy weapons appeared, they seemed to prefer the plasma gun. None of them had melta-guns or flamers as far as Gaunt could see.

- Vitrian squads have twenty men apiece, the Ghosts have 12 men per squads. Also note that the Ghosts have at "least one heavy weapon" per squad, implying that Squads CAN have more than one heavy weapon (probably one per fire team.)

Page 71

Then, again in unision, they altered a small control on the waistband of their armour. With a slight shimmer in the darnkess, the finely meshed glass of their body suits flipped and closed, so that the interlocking teeth were no longer the shiny ablative surface, but showed instead the dark, matt reverse side. Gaunt was impressed. Their functional armour had an efficient stealth mode for movement after dark.

- Vitriain mesh armor has a "stealth" mode where the scales flip and interlock to show a 'dark, matte side" ratehr than a shiny, ablative side. Seems a bit overcomplicated, but its a nice feature (and it implies an interesting degree of miniaturization and soem sort of "semi-powered" armour as a possibility for some medium/heavy Guard infantry. Wehtehr the armour has other "powered" systems (NVG/IR goggles, some sort of inertnal life support, ,etc is not known. Given the mask is "full faced" it probably has at least the life support, since there's no way you could get a rebreather under the full-faced helm.)

The fact that it is clearly ablative also hints at it being closer to flak armour than mesh, but nothing does prevent mesh from having ablative properties (at least going by Inquisitor.)

Page 72

The Vitrian unbuttoend his flak-armour tunic and showed Caffran the top of a thin, gry pouch that was laced into its lining.

Here the Viitrian armour is identified as being "flak" rather than "mesh." This may suggest that in later editions (or in the Imperium) "flak" and "mesh" are just very similar types of armour or variations of one another, instead of having similarities to Eldar mesh. (There is some material/constrcution similarity implied for mesh in earlier sources, anyhow.)

Page 72 - 73

"Gene coded" monofilament paper. Again, indication of the level of miniaturization of some of their technologies.

- an artillery shell (macro cannon probably?) can vaporise two armoured guardsman. At least 300-400 megajoules, probably at least several times that given an area-effect blast.

Page 78

- Corbec envisions "three tonne" macro-shells (particularily ones with an oxy-phosphor gel.) Oddly, he mentions "three tonne deuterium" macroshells, which seems odd. That might imply some sort of nuclear warhead were it not for the oxy-phosphor gel. In any case thats a big fucking artillery piece (by contrast, a WW2 battleship shell might weigh around 1-1.5 tonnes. This gun is probably comparable in capability, but almost certainly either a fixed emplacement or something on a superheavy chassis.)

Page 79

- Flense has eight Demolisher siege tanks, four Phaethon-pattern Leman Russ tanks, three Griffon armoued weapons carriers, and ninteen Chimera with two hundred Jantine in "full battledress."


Page 80

- again, the Navy ships in orbit provide both bombardment support and continuous orbital recon.

Page 81

Flense ordered his vehicles on. At maximum thrust they tore and bounced and slithered over the mud and into the Shriven heartland.

All the vehicles aforementioned above on page 79 that are parrt of Flense's group are moving at "full thrust". Basic 'Russes are much slower than Chimeras, and Demolishers are slower still, yet all are keeping equal pace. This suggests that 'Russes are capable of twice their usual speed (or perhaps some variants are, due to more powerful engines or a different powerplant - the Jantine ARE elite troops, after all.)


Page 83

- a "significantly sized" chaos fleet, a splinter fleet of a larger fleet, wiped out Tanith in the space of a night.

No indication of numbers (probably fewer than a dozen ships), but it took them less than 12 hours to destroy all ife on the planet. It is possible they were very small ships (cruisers and esorts) or that they were also damaged.

In any case, assuming 1e9 megatons minimum, a dozen ships, and a 12 hour timeframe, this leads to a sustained firepower of ~2 gigatons/sec per ship. Obviously, this is quite conservative, since we know virtually nothing of the fleet and the effects on the planet (yet.)

[andrewgpaul]

Page 59
- Oktar is mentioend here as a "commissar-general", so evidently the dual-rank thing is not reserved for merely "commissar-colonels."

If anything, 'Commissar-General' is a more common rank; It implies a position on the command staff, which makes sense - the Imperium needs to keep an eye on its commanders as well as the grunts. Probably more involved in strategy, doctrine and correct thinking than battlefield morale and discipline. The High Command of the Taros campaign (Imperial Armour 3) featured Commissar General Mordred van Horcic, who eventually relieved the supreme commander of the ground forces after his failure.

[Shroom Man 777]

Oh, and remember when Gaunt vaporizes or incinerates people's heads, he may be using those cremator rounds for his bolter.

Oh, and apparently, getting a splinter of Chaos idol material under your skin is bad. Apparently you MUTATE into a giant deformutaloidificaticated monstrosity. However the fuck THAT works.

[Shadowtraveler]

Oh, and apparently, getting a splinter of Chaos idol material under your skin is bad. Apparently you MUTATE into a giant deformutaloidificaticated monstrosity. However the fuck THAT works.

Do they need to show an explanation, though? It's Chaos. They practically have an entire legion of "wizards who did it".