Joshua Bell in DC Subway Station

AMP: sci-fi art, regular art, pictures, photos, comics, music, etc.

Moderator: Beowulf

Post Reply
User avatar
Singular Quartet
Sith Marauder
Posts: 3896
Joined: 2002-07-04 05:33pm
Location: This is sky. It is made of FUCKING and LIMIT.

Joshua Bell in DC Subway Station

Post by Singular Quartet »

This is an article... and a musical acompanyment.

Listen and read. Just do it.
User avatar
kheegster
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2397
Joined: 2002-09-14 02:29am
Location: An oasis in the wastelands of NJ

Post by kheegster »

Great article.

I think Joshua Bell is slightly overrated, but the music is cutting through even through the hubbub of the station and the crappy quality of the recording. I'm amazed that only a few people noticed him at all.

I tend to take notice of *good* street performers, but If he was playing the slower pieces, it might have some difficulty catching my attention if I was in a hurry. However, the Bach Chaconne would have leapt out with its virtuosity no matter what.

I had applied to be a licensed London Underground busker last summer (application submitted in May), but they only asked me to come for an audition in October, after I had moved to the US :lol: .
Articles, opinions and rants from an astrophysicist: Cosmic Journeys
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

That doesn't surprise me at all. The average American doesn't give two shits about classical music. This shows how far classical music sank. :(

Then again, I guess it did all right for maintaining supremacy for about 300 hundred years or so. :P
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Winston Blake
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2529
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:58am
Location: Australia

Post by Winston Blake »

First, I have to say that this stunt was truly epic.
"Let's say I took one of our more abstract masterpieces, say an Ellsworth Kelly, and removed it from its frame, marched it down the 52 steps that people walk up to get to the National Gallery, past the giant columns, and brought it into a restaurant. It's a $5 million painting. And it's one of those restaurants where there are pieces of original art for sale, by some industrious kids from the Corcoran School, and I hang that Kelly on the wall with a price tag of $150. No one is going to notice it. An art curator might look up and say: 'Hey, that looks a little like an Ellsworth Kelly. Please pass the salt.'"
Whoopdy fuckin' doo. What does an original Ellsworth Kelly mean to a little girl having life-threatening skull-restructuring surgery? What is a 5 million dollar painting to the men and women who design brilliant solutions that keep the power grid operating? Why should a chemist doing ground-breakingly important research recognise Joshua Bell? What does Bach's "Chaconne" mean to children dying in Darfur? To biologists painstakingly preparing GMO crops to solve world hunger?
Bell decided to begin with "Chaconne" from Johann Sebastian Bach's Partita No. 2 in D Minor. Bell calls it "not just one of the greatest pieces of music ever written, but one of the greatest achievements of any man in history. It's a spiritually powerful piece, emotionally powerful, structurally perfect. Plus, it was written for a solo violin, so I won't be cheating with some half-assed version."
Give me a fucking break. Put Ed Witten in a subway and let's see how many people recognise him. As if experts appreciating expert music is any more relevant to the average joe than experts appreciating expert science/engineering work.

Let me get this clear, I don't think art is bullshit, the opposite in fact. But it's still just art. People will set aside time in their schedule for it, just like anything else.
User avatar
Vympel
Spetsnaz
Spetsnaz
Posts: 29312
Joined: 2002-07-19 01:08am
Location: Sydney Australia

Post by Vympel »

I found this stunt to be pretentious crap, personally.
Like Legend of Galactic Heroes? Please contribute to http://gineipaedia.com/
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

Winston Blake wrote:Give me a fucking break. Put Ed Witten in a subway and let's see how many people recognise him. As if experts appreciating expert music is any more relevant to the average joe than experts appreciating expert science/engineering work.
I agree with the rest of your post, and did find myself frequently annoyed at the author's contempt upon "uncultured plebians," but there is no such thing as "expert music." Music can be appreciated upon hearing it, just like that man who never listened to classical music but found something in Chaccone he liked. One doesn't have to be an expert with a degree in music theory to appreciate it. Despite the widespread stereotype of only social elites listening to classical music at cocktail parties, it is still just music, available to all who like it. Not everyone who listens to it is an expert.

Besides, that's an unfair comparison. Don't just let Ed Witten stand there. Have him lecture on string theory in a subway and then see what happens. Probably close to the same results, but who knows? Maybe you can proposition him to do it. :P
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Covenant
Sith Marauder
Posts: 4451
Joined: 2006-04-11 07:43am

Post by Covenant »

Even if John Phillips Sousa marched through an American Train Station, I know I would just be pissed. I need to get to work in the morning, and I sure as hell don't give money to street performers. This guy clearly doesn't understand the function of these public spaces. If he had gone out to a public park and played, I bet he would have had a different reaction, but it'd be like playing in an elevator. I'm not there to have a life-changing musical experience, I'm there to fight my way to work at 7:00 in the morning.

So I think it's a very clever trick, and I like the idea of it, but I don't think anyone should be suprised.
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

That's a pretty good point...maybe he should have been in a park instead.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Soontir C'boath
SG-14: Fuck the Medic!
Posts: 6828
Joined: 2002-07-06 12:15am
Location: Queens, NYC I DON'T FUCKING CARE IF MANHATTEN IS CONSIDERED NYC!! I'M IN IT ASSHOLE!!!
Contact:

Post by Soontir C'boath »

Covenant wrote:Even if John Phillips Sousa marched through an American Train Station, I know I would just be pissed. I need to get to work in the morning, and I sure as hell don't give money to street performers. This guy clearly doesn't understand the function of these public spaces. If he had gone out to a public park and played, I bet he would have had a different reaction, but it'd be like playing in an elevator. I'm not there to have a life-changing musical experience, I'm there to fight my way to work at 7:00 in the morning.
So I think it's a very clever trick, and I like the idea of it, but I don't think anyone should be suprised.
Yea, he basically played at the wrong place to the wrong crowd. What he really needed are people with free time and who can stick around. If someone's on their way to work, they're not going to spend time standing and listening.

I remember the time I was at Union Square and there was a Chicago Brass band name Hypnotic and every time they played, they had a crowd of twenty or so people sticking around. After the end of a song, people would come up to buy a CD of theirs which costs $15 and they were flying off the trombone case every time (I stayed for a couple songs). Union Square is more of a little commercial area as well with a movie theatre, Virgin Megastore, etc so it had more for tourists and people who can spend five minutes sticking around than the station full of people going to work. Really it's, DUH!
I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season."
Kettch
Padawan Learner
Posts: 202
Joined: 2002-10-29 11:03pm
Location: Ellington CT, USA

Post by Kettch »

I highly recommend reading the follow up article, Too Busy to Stop and Hear the Music which addresses alot of the complaints, about the when & where of the performance. Basicly it comes down to Joshua Bell was available in the morning, they wouldn't have been able to do the interviews with an afternoon crowd and L'Enfant's privately owned Mall allowed them to so the 'experiment' where as the Metro would not.
User avatar
NeoGoomba
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3269
Joined: 2002-12-22 11:35am
Location: Upstate New York

Post by NeoGoomba »

The only street performer I ever gave a damn about was a one-man band on a bus in Mexico. Pan flute, spanish guitar, small steel drum, and a moracca. I gave him $20 bucks and got a CD. He was damn impressive, and wasn't out trying to prove a point, other than good music can separate people from their money.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know...tomorrow."
-Agent Kay
IRG CommandoJoe
Sith Devotee
Posts: 3481
Joined: 2002-07-09 12:51pm

Post by IRG CommandoJoe »

Some jackass wrote:Silver Spring, Md.: your story is very flawed. many don't have classical music access, much less education.
If they have a radio, they have as much classical music access as anyone else. They just CHOOSE not to listen to it. It's not as though classical music is some sort of privilege that only the elite have. This person has the brain bug that classical music requires education to enjoy.
aside from being busy, these people might have different notions of beauty. appreciation of beauty is just as much a function of osmosis as anything else. notice all the people who stopped and appreciated had had access to classical music.
Ever hear catchy classical music tunes on TV commercials? Movies? Shows? Radio commercials? If you like those sounds, it's only natural you would actively try to listen to more of it, no? "Access to classical music" means buying CDs, tuning the radio to classical stations, and downloading MP3s. Face it. Most of them simply don't like classical music.
the one who didn't, stacy -- she was just star struck. put someone with jennifer hudson's voice there, i'd bet there'd be a crowd. why? this country's been inundated with THAT kind of musical education.
No, you forgot about the guy who never listened to classical music and all of a sudden was turned on to it in mere seconds and liked it enough to hang around for a few minutes and give Bell money. He didn't have any idea who Bell was.
also, ever think the kids just noticed loud sound, as all kids do? kids are just more aware, more present. and probably saw Bell flailing around, which is always fun to watch. i doubt that they were struck or inherently mesmerised by your imposed definition of beauty.
I'll give you that much.
finally, the experiment and the story is awfully condescending. it's premise was at least. perhaps it's conclusion wasn't. but i think the experiment needed some common sense-squadding. i hope i haven't been rude. I just wanted you to know what at least one reader thought.
It is not condescending! Everyone acts as though classical music is music of the ELITE. Yeah, maybe two or three hundred years ago it was. People then did NOT have access to classical music. Only the royal families and aristocracy could afford to hire musicians to perform in their courts and to commission and attend major works at theaters. Not anymore. ANYONE can listen to it, just like any other form of music.

Ever since the radio was invented all forms of music were immediately democratized. Anyone was able to listen to anything they wanted as long as they got reception. Today the same applies. Also, there are no restrictions on what someone can buy in a music store or download from the Internet.

So with that in mind, WHAT is holding someone back from listening to classical music? Nothing.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? -Obi-Wan Kenobi

"In the unlikely event that someone comes here, hates everything we stand for, and then donates a big chunk of money anyway, I will thank him for his stupidity." -Darth Wong, Lord of the Sith

Proud member of the Brotherhood of the Monkey.
User avatar
Winston Blake
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2529
Joined: 2004-03-26 01:58am
Location: Australia

Post by Winston Blake »

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:
Winston Blake wrote:Give me a fucking break. Put Ed Witten in a subway and let's see how many people recognise him. As if experts appreciating expert music is any more relevant to the average joe than experts appreciating expert science/engineering work.
I agree with the rest of your post, and did find myself frequently annoyed at the author's contempt upon "uncultured plebians," but there is no such thing as "expert music." Music can be appreciated upon hearing it, just like that man who never listened to classical music but found something in Chaccone he liked. One doesn't have to be an expert with a degree in music theory to appreciate it. Despite the widespread stereotype of only social elites listening to classical music at cocktail parties, it is still just music, available to all who like it. Not everyone who listens to it is an expert.
I'm not linking classical music with 'expertness'. My argument is the same for the best jazz player in the world, or a truly amazing beatboxer. IIRC the guy who recognised Joshua Bell and the shoe shining lady both described detailed musical features that they recognised as setting him apart. These technical nuances that make the difference between, say, a great beatboxer and a world class beatboxer aren't going to be recognised by someone with no experience in that area. In the case of classical music, people commonly hear copies of world-class performances (in ads and so on), so there's all the more reason for Joshua Bell to sound like 'the usual'.

finally, the experiment and the story is awfully condescending. it's premise was at least. perhaps it's conclusion wasn't. but i think the experiment needed some common sense-squadding. i hope i haven't been rude. I just wanted you to know what at least one reader thought.
It is not condescending! Everyone acts as though classical music is music of the ELITE. Yeah, maybe two or three hundred years ago it was. People then did NOT have access to classical music. Only the royal families and aristocracy could afford to hire musicians to perform in their courts and to commission and attend major works at theaters. Not anymore. ANYONE can listen to it, just like any other form of music.
Bolding mine. He didn't say classical music was condescending. In fact, you agree with him:
IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I agree with the rest of your post, and did find myself frequently annoyed at the author's contempt upon "uncultured plebians,"
Ever since the radio was invented all forms of music were immediately democratized. Anyone was able to listen to anything they wanted as long as they got reception. Today the same applies. Also, there are no restrictions on what someone can buy in a music store or download from the Internet.

So with that in mind, WHAT is holding someone back from listening to classical music? Nothing.
You've answered your own question:
IRG CommandoJoe wrote:Ever hear catchy classical music tunes on TV commercials? Movies? Shows? Radio commercials? If you like those sounds, it's only natural you would actively try to listen to more of it, no? "Access to classical music" means buying CDs, tuning the radio to classical stations, and downloading MP3s. Face it. Most of them simply don't like classical music.
The catchy stuff is what people like. Not the technical brilliance. This entire experiment is based on the idea that people should have noticed Joshua Bell more because of his technical brilliance, whereas it really proves that the average busker can be just as catchy as Joshua Bell.
Post Reply